Crazy idea or not ?

[Lastic]

Last evening I stumbled upon this thread http://atariage.com/forums/topic/291342-xf551-35-clone/, got excited and bought the last internal version of this project.

 

Mounting it will require losing the pylons on my 130XE topcase and cutting into the side of it.

 

 

My 130XE ( I have another unmodified one ) currently has a Sophia DVI installed like this ( flat cable bent to exit the shield which I currently still have installed ).

 

 

I still have an Ultimate 1MB board laying around which I haven't felt courageous enough to install yet.

 

And another incoming hardware addon which I purchased from Sleepy are 2 Midi-Mate interfaces , one assembled , one unassembled.

 

 

Do you start to see where I'm going with this ? 130XE with internal 1 MB upgrade, internal Sophia DVI , internal Midi ports , and internal 3,5" diskdrive ?

 

Ideally since I have an 130XE with only 4 RAM chips and thus lots of space around that area , I would mount the Midi board there and run the Midi ports to the top left side ( maybe using the left pylon hole as a standoff ) ?

 

The Ultimate board I would lay on the ECI port like this (using the hole , not a socket to support like in the picture )

 

 

And place the circuit board for the internal diskdrive below the diskdrive like this :

 

 

Only issue I see currently except for the top case pylons , cutouts and removing the shield is SIO.

 

How would I hookup the Midi interfaces and diskdrive to SIO internally whlist still allowing the SIO port to add other devices ?

 

Could I take a dissambled-circuit-board only SIO splitter to work-around this ?

 

And now I'll stop before somebody calls an ambulance on me to drive me off to the looney bin ( but what about adding a WiFimodem232 <hits killswitch on hyperactive brain>)

Edited June 7, 2019 by Lastic

[xrbrevin]

it will be an 8-bit ST!

[Mclaneinc]

Lastic, there's nothing wrong with being crazy, some great stuff was made in the moments of madness

 

Have fun..

[Lastic]

Lastic, there's nothing wrong with being crazy, some great stuff was made in the moments of madness

 

Have fun..

 

Thanks, I sure will .

 

it will be an 8-bit ST!

 

 

Yep , that was the idea I had to use a PC back in the days for school when the ST was launched, always loved the design , hence my love for the 130XE.

[Mclaneinc]

I think its a wonderful idea, merging old with new(er)...As long as it all works then the winner is you...

 

Paul..

[xrbrevin]

if 8-bit hadnt been superseded by 16, this is likely what the designers wouldve done

[Sleepy]

> 3,5"-FDD:

even if it´s possible to connect a 3,5"-FDD to the ATARI, in my opinion it doesn´t make sense for me any longer: ATARI-disc-software always comes on 5,25". Using 3,5" only makes sense if your looking for a smaller media with more capacity. But today, there are better solutions (much more compact and much much more capacity) such as sio2sd or SIDE / U1MB for example. In my experience 3,5" discs have a much higher failure rate than 5,25".

> 1 MB upgrade & internal Sophia DVI

I would combine it with a SIDE-cart.

> internal Midi ports

For an INTERNAL (MIDI-Interface with waveboard) you have to do some holes in the housing for the DIN jacks or a SUB D connector. For me only useful if you want to play MIDI-files without an external MIDI-keyboard. I would prefer a SIO-soulution. With a SIDE cart, it´s no problem to load software if SIO is blocked by the MIDI-interface...

Marc

Edited June 7, 2019 by Sleepy

[Lastic]

 

> 3,5"-FDD:

even if it´s possible to connect a 3,5"-FDD to the ATARI, in my opinion it doesn´t make sense for me any longer: ATARI-disc-software always comes on 5,25". Using 3,5" only makes sense if your looking for a smaller media with more capacity. But today, there are better solutions (much more compact and much much more capacity) such as sio2sd or SIDE / U1MB for example. In my experience 3,5" discs have a much higher failure rate than 5,25".

> 1 MB upgrade & internal Sophia DVI

I would combine it with a SIDE-cart.

> internal Midi ports

For an INTERNAL (MIDI-Interface with waveboard) you have to do some holes in the housing for the DIN jacks or a SUB D connector. For me only useful if you want to play MIDI-files without an external MIDI-keyboard. I would prefer a SIO-soulution. With a SIDE cart, it´s no problem to load software if SIO is blocked by the MIDI-interface...

Marc

 

 

 

Good points Marc.

 

The 3,5" is merely to copy the STf design as I own an SIO2SD, UnoCart, AVG Cart, SDrive2 and soon an SDrive2-PT .

 

Same for the Midi ports, I won't be adding a Waveboard , merely for hooking up a MIDI-keyboard and primarely for connecting it to another unmodified 130XE ( using your assembled SIO Midi-Mate) to play Midi-Maze.

 

I have 4 130XE's , one which might be repairable, one which is missing chips due to using it as a spare-parts machine and a non-modified 130XE and this Sophia modded 130XE.

 

The idea was to use the spare parts 130XE case and create a fully-modded 130XE alongside a non modified 130XE.

[Forrest]

I would add some 1 inch hex standoffs installed inside the bottom of the case. This should give you room to mount the 3.5 inch drive and the add-on boards. You can mock it up first, without cutting your original case. If it all fits, you can extend the EMI shield with some copper tape and cut 1 inch high plastic pieces to go around the perimeter of the case.

[Ralphy Rocket]

Not crazy! Just fun!

[manterola]

In our discussion about the sf551 board (developed by Dropcheck) other person mentioned using the board to include a floppy drive inside the 1200XL computer.

None of this is practical, but it is still super cool. Just putting a disk and do DIR and see 2800+ sectors available is cool.

BTW, I was able to use the sf551 board and connect my atari 8 bits to those slim laptop floppy drives. It worked great! Those drives mech. are very quiet and very small. So a good option when no much space is available.

You just need the information to modify a flat ribbon cable in order to make the drive respond to DS0. If someone is interested I'd share the info, it is quite straightforward.

Regards.

Edited June 7, 2019 by manterola

[+Nezgar]

I like that it is all "period technology". All stuff that "could" have been done in the XE era.

 

Well, except for the sophia I guess.. But that's pretty excusable today.

[Gunstar]

Not crazy! Just fun!

Exactly! If it were about being sensible, none of us would still be using/playing with these old machines in the first place! I have many of the latest high-speed, high capacity media gadgets, and I love them, but I still use floppy drives and even a 1010! Why? Because it's part of the retro experience just as much to me as adding new hardware to the retro hardware! It's about fun and nostalgia!

 

It's all relative to me anyway, if you really stop and think about it: I'll use my Xbox 360 as an example; it takes almost as long from the point of turning on the 360 to finally having a game fully loaded and ready to play as it does for some of the old 32K cassette games I have to load up from my 1010 to the Atari! I have to wait for the Xbox to initialize and boot up and get on-line and signed in, then scroll to the games menu, it takes 30 seconds just for it to load up the library to select GTA 5, and then wait for it to load. Whether it's an Atari cassette or GTA 5 from my 360's hard drive, I have to wait 5-10 minutes in either case, I just go grab a snack, use the bathroom, or whatever while I wait...

 

Though I already have Dropcheck's XF551 board, which I also intend to install in my 1200XL with a 3.5" drive! For the hell of it, the fun of it, and because I am able to and modding and upgrading is all part of the fun for me. Anyone that says old style hardware is ridiculous with the new options available, IMHO is ridiculous themselves since they are still using ancient obsolete hardware in the first place! And I feel the same regarding old upgrades compared to new; for example upgrading memory with dram chips is every bit as reasonable to me still, even if new sram options are available, because it's ALL going into old, obsolete hardware anyway! Nitpicking about what is worth while or not when you enjoy 30-40 year old computers in the first place is just STUPID. I'm not going to spend more for sram if I have dozens of perfectly good dram chips to use still.

 

The same is true for me with audio and video. I have the latest tech, but I also still love to use all the old stuff too, from LP's to 8-tracks and cassettes. Why? Because I get ENJOYMENT out of using the old tech still, and it's nice to know that I can find any media old or new, out in the world and know I have equipment to play it!

Edited June 7, 2019 by Gunstar

[Lastic]

I like that it is all "period technology". All stuff that "could" have been done in the XE era.

 

Well, except for the sophia I guess.. But that's pretty excusable today.

 

 

And the Ultimate 1MB I'm planning to install, altough I could stick with SysCheck on the ECI port for extra RAM.

[Lastic]

Still unclear on how to connect both the Midi-Mate PCB and Diskdrive PCB to the SIO port internally whilst retaining the SIO port to connect additional periphals.

 

Other thing I might be looking for is a replacement top case badge that says ATARI 130XEfm or 130XE fm Ultimate.

 

Will see how it goes, after I received all parts.

[Gunstar]

Still unclear on how to connect both the Midi-Mate PCB and Diskdrive PCB to the SIO port internally whilst retaining the SIO port to connect additional periphals.

 

 

It's no different than daisy-chaining them externally to the SIO, you are just "daisy-chaining" them internally with wires directly to the SIO port, which is still free to be used too, instead of using the SIO port with SIO cables. It works because SIO devices are smart devices just like modern USB devices and hubs, etc.

Edited June 7, 2019 by Gunstar

[xrbrevin]

i read somewhere that the bloke who designed SIO went on to play an important part in designing USB

[Guest]

i read somewhere that the bloke who designed SIO went on to play an important part in designing USB

so he's the one to blame

 

at least SEVEN standards (so far) 1.0, 1.1, 2.0, 3.0, 3.1, 3.2 and 4.0

coupled with connectors ranging from typeA, typeB through to mini, micro and typeC - not to mention all of the variants of each type.

 

am beginning to wonder if the "U" in USB actually stands for "un-universal" (ps - i know that's not a word)

[flashjazzcat]

Are seven standards a drawback? Surely this just means the protocol has seen significant iterative improvements. And they are all backwards compatible with legacy USB devices.

 

The profusion of different connector sizes can be problematic, but contrast this with the completely ad-hoc connectivity methods employed before USB existed. And almost everything is now being homogenised into USB type C.

[+SoulBuster]

Exactly! If it were about being sensible, none of us would still be using/playing with these old machines in the first place! I have many of the latest high-speed, high capacity media gadgets, and I love them, but I still use floppy drives and even a 1010! Why? Because it's part of the retro experience just as much to me as adding new hardware to the retro hardware! It's about fun and nostalgia!

 

It's all relative to me anyway, if you really stop and think about it: I'll use my Xbox 360 as an example; it takes almost as long from the point of turning on the 360 to finally having a game fully loaded and ready to play as it does for some of the old 32K cassette games I have to load up from my 1010 to the Atari! I have to wait for the Xbox to initialize and boot up and get on-line and signed in, then scroll to the games menu, it takes 30 seconds just for it to load up the library to select GTA 5, and then wait for it to load. Whether it's an Atari cassette or GTA 5 from my 360's hard drive, I have to wait 5-10 minutes in either case, I just go grab a snack, use the bathroom, or whatever while I wait...

 

Though I already have Dropcheck's XF551 board, which I also intend to install in my 1200XL with a 3.5" drive! For the hell of it, the fun of it, and because I am able to and modding and upgrading is all part of the fun for me. Anyone that says old style hardware is ridiculous with the new options available, IMHO is ridiculous themselves since they are still using ancient obsolete hardware in the first place! And I feel the same regarding old upgrades compared to new; for example upgrading memory with dram chips is every bit as reasonable to me still, even if new sram options are available, because it's ALL going into old, obsolete hardware anyway! Nitpicking about what is worth while or not when you enjoy 30-40 year old computers in the first place is just STUPID. I'm not going to spend more for sram if I have dozens of perfectly good dram chips to use still.

 

The same is true for me with audio and video. I have the latest tech, but I also still love to use all the old stuff too, from LP's to 8-tracks and cassettes. Why? Because I get ENJOYMENT out of using the old tech still, and it's nice to know that I can find any media old or new, out in the world and know I have equipment to play it!

 

I wholeheartedly agree. I have all the wizi-go-faster stuff for the 8-bit and the ST lines also. But, in addition to that, I also have versions of both systems that are stock.

 

I still use real HDs for both lines. I have a 400 MB+ Winchester HD/Adaptec tower for the 8-bit as well as SCSI HDs for the ST. I have 5 STs set up at all times and have Megafile 44s and SyQuest Drives to transfer data between them.

 

On the other hand, I have CosomosEX, NetUSB, Lightning USB, Modern Monitor cables, SCSI to SD adapters. I even have a Drem to put in a Megafile 30.

 

Best of both worlds, lotsa fun.

[+slx]

It's no different than daisy-chaining them externally to the SIO, you are just "daisy-chaining" them internally with wires directly to the SIO port, which is still free to be used too, instead of using the SIO port with SIO cables. It works because SIO devices are smart devices just like modern USB devices and hubs, etc.

I second that. I have a crude early homemade SIO2PC in my 800 and as I had no spare SIO plug I simply soldered it to the SIO port internally (and routed the cable through the RF hole while stowing the RF cable in the empty space on the left). Worked perfectly.

 

I find your mini ST-Style 8-bit idea very nice, even if the 3.5 floppy might have practical drawbacks. Its not like were using these machines for lack of alternatives, and even though any case mod means an original machine is gone, the same is true for hotrods and yet many people like them.

[+DrVenkman]

Why do any of this? Because it’s fun of course.

 

But these seem like awfully ambitious plans if you haven’t even built up the courage to install a U1MB.

[Lastic]

Why do any of this? Because it’s fun of course.

 

But these seem like awfully ambitious plans if you haven’t even built up the courage to install a U1MB.

 

 

Desoldering chips and instaling sockets requires a good day where I can take time to do this, the desoldering station helps a lot.

Likely this project will be a 2 day install.

[Gunstar]

I second that. I have a crude early homemade SIO2PC in my 800 and as I had no spare SIO plug I simply soldered it to the SIO port internally (and routed the cable through the RF hole while stowing the RF cable in the empty space on the left). Worked perfectly.

 

I find your mini ST-Style 8-bit idea very nice, even if the 3.5 floppy might have practical drawbacks. Its not like were using these machines for lack of alternatives, and even though any case mod means an original machine is gone, the same is true for hotrods and yet many people like them.

I'm into modding and preserving, I have a couple other 1200XL's and one of them remains stock (except for chroma connection fix for S-video and +5v SIO fix) and will. Both of the other 2 cases will remain preserved, only my 1200XL that I already did a true-edge PBI mod too has been case-hacked (but professionally), so the case is already hacked for that; it's the one getting the internal 3.5" drive.

 

If an internal floppy drive is a crazy idea, then my PBI mod was insane. But I loved doing it, love using it and I am proud of the job I did on it.

 

Also, I think the 1200XL's preservation to the greater world is pretty secure, since over 50 1200XL's in stock condition, were sold to some preservationists recently. Which I am happy for.

Edited June 9, 2019 by Gunstar

[+slx]

I'm into modding and preserving, I have a couple other 1200XL's and one of them remains stock (except for chroma connection fix for S-video and +5v SIO fix) and will. Both of the other 2 cases will remain preserved, only my 1200XL that I already did a true-edge PBI mod too has been case-hacked (but professionally), so the case is already hacked for that; it's the one getting the internal 3.5" drive.

 

I only have two and I converted one of them to PAL/Ultimate/Stereo routing the stereo out through the RF hole (like I assume yours does), leaving the case intact otherwise. and the other will get a Sophia DVI as 60Hz is apparently more compatible with TVs and I can use it for original speed gaming.