Reaperman Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 (edited) ^ So my Sinden light gun came in. Works 'okay' on windows, MiSTer support isn't good at all. Will have to wait and see if there are updates. I can sometimes get a duck, but haven't cleared the first duck hunt level. 😥 In very much more important news: QMTech DE-10 clones beat the taki udon ones to market. Anybody going to grab one? $99 for the regular clone (sold out), $42 for ram for that, $130 for a de10 clone with ram already built-in. If there's anybody who has been holding off on a MiSTer for pricing reasons, it looks like this is your time. $130 for everything you need to get going (minus any cooling). the IO and usb hub boards on misters are only extremely-nice-to-haves. It does come with a power supply+cable. Also there are clear chip markings and listed specs for those who know about decoding those. Edited July 26 by Reaperman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youxia Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 Looks very interesting, though my fear that these uber cheap boards will have very low volumes and so be perpetually sold out seems founded for now at least. I have a couple of MiSTers already but could maybe get another one at this price, and yes, it certainly would open the door for a real mass FPGA adoption. The complete MiSTer stack @ ~500 (or more) USD was always overhyped in a silly way, since most users don't really need the I/O board and the USB one could be replaced with a cheap equivalent. But even then the price would be +300 USD. Halving it would be a game changer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE146 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 8 hours ago, youxia said: Halving it would be a game changer. I think you mean "back to normal"? I'm definitely intrigued by these new offerings as I've been wanting to build one for my brother, but the prices have just gone ridiculous. I'll wait it out until the internet gets its hands on it and we start getting reviews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youxia Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 9 minutes ago, NE146 said: I think you mean "back to normal"? Was 140 USD for the board + RAM ever a thing? I do recall the initial price was something like 130 USD (in theory) but when I was buying it in Europe it puffed up to nearly 180, then my 64 RAM stick was another 50 or so... Some folks on the MiSTer forum already confirmed they work fine, so I think it's legit, but sure, waiting a bit won't hurt. The other boards from Taki might be even more attractive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE146 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 (edited) 50 minutes ago, youxia said: Was 140 USD for the board + RAM ever a thing? I do recall the initial price was something like 130 USD (in theory) but when I was buying it in Europe it puffed up to nearly 180, then my 64 RAM stick was another 50 or so... Well not quite $140 for everything.. but yes it was ~$125 for the board for a while. I forget how much I paid for SDRAM but I want to say it was less than $50 at at the time (maybe $40?).. so even less if you went for a 32MB SDRAM (even though you couldn't play Neo-Geo). Finish it off with a $7 USB hub and it was well below $200 for a fully working setup.. at least here in the US. And it was this way for a number of years. I didn't quite look at the details of this new offerings but if it offers everything for the $140 range and it's a suitable equivalent, that would indeed be awesome. Edited July 26 by NE146 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 Hey this thread stopped being one endless youtube shill. What do you know... 14 hours ago, Reaperman said: ^ So my Sinden light gun came in. Works 'okay' on windows, MiSTer support isn't good at all. Will have to wait and see if there are updates. I can sometimes get a duck, but haven't cleared the first duck hunt level. 😥 I keep meaning to grab my dust covered Sinden and try out the MiSTer support - it looked okay from the one brief video I looked at. I've used it with MAME before and it seemed to work pretty well though that border still irritates me and is something my Aimtrak doesn't need... Interesting on the pricing of these new boards. My original DE-10 was $130 back in 2018? or so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 (edited) 16 hours ago, Reaperman said: ^ So my Sinden light gun came in. Works 'okay' on windows, MiSTer support isn't good at all. Will have to wait and see if there are updates. I can sometimes get a duck, but haven't cleared the first duck hunt level. 😥 In very much more important news: QMTech DE-10 clones beat the taki udon ones to market. Anybody going to grab one? $99 for the regular clone (sold out), $42 for ram for that, $130 for a de10 clone with ram already built-in. If there's anybody who has been holding off on a MiSTer for pricing reasons, it looks like this is your time. $130 for everything you need to get going (minus any cooling). the IO and usb hub boards on misters are only extremely-nice-to-haves. It does come with a power supply+cable. Also there are clear chip markings and listed specs for those who know about decoding those. There's a second version too and not sold out: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256807184157012.html at 130 ... q&a section says it runs MiSTer SW just fine. It seems to have 2x 64MB sdram already on board (bottom pic) ... interesting. EDIT: nvm your third link already covers it ... sorry for the repeat. Edited July 26 by phoenixdownita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzie.P Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 (edited) 1 hour ago, remowilliams said: Interesting on the pricing of these new boards. My original DE-10 was $130 back in 2018? or so. I'm not sure of the DE-10 price back when I got mine in 2021, but the bundle I bought was about 300 bucks and included this -- Edited July 26 by Razzie.P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youxia Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 12 hours ago, NE146 said: Well not quite $140 for everything.. but yes it was ~$125 for the board for a while. I forget how much I paid for SDRAM but I want to say it was less than $50 at at the time (maybe $40?).. so even less if you went for a 32MB SDRAM (even though you couldn't play Neo-Geo). Finish it off with a $7 USB hub and it was well below $200 for a fully working setup.. at least here in the US. And it was this way for a number of years. I didn't quite look at the details of this new offerings but if it offers everything for the $140 range and it's a suitable equivalent, that would indeed be awesome. Yeah, sure you could put together a working setup for around ~200 USD depending on your geolocation. That's why I got one, even though even at that price it took me a long deliberation. But that was before that little thing called Covid happened and the chip shortage and inflation and... So the reality is now even DE10 itself can cost around 250-300 depending on where you are. 140 is not for everything as in "full stack" but that was always overhyped anyway so the board with RAM + cheap OTG USB + Direct Video dongle would suit me again. It's the same setup I was running before somebody gifted me the case and IO and USB boards and everything works just fine with it. One problem I'm hearing about is that Direct Video doesn't work with the 99$ board so that's one snag already though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaperman Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 (edited) So sinden light gun troubleshooting continues. It's not 1000hz usb polling (I had high hopes that was it). And I noticed retrorgb's stream had even more trouble than me, failing on 3x MiSTers that were handy, even with the creator online, but then swapped over to a clean build provided by sinden at about the 19:05 mark. The instructions do call for a clean build, but I'd really rather not do that, since I'll have to troubleshoot video sync issues using only FTP. 🤣 It also looks like somebody on github is having my issues too, so it's a known thing. I do have a BUNCH of usb items in there I could remove for troubleshooting, but I need that stuff more than a light gun. It could be my old friend 'insufficient 5v power'--but I have removed two items to test (wifi/bt and the wireless keyboard dongle), which leaves just 2 micro sd adapters, and an 8bitdo rx Edited August 3 by Reaperman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 The I/O and USB boards are now really cheap. I picked up the I/O board (with the VGA connection as I use it to output component to a CRT) for $27.99. I picked up the USB hub for $29.99. I also picked up a 128MB module for $40. The parts to make a whole "MiSTer" sandwich are really cheap now. The DE10-Nano is $225 from Terasic. I picked up mine used for $150. But, even at full price you are looking at around say $350 with shipping and you'd have it all. It's only $500-$600 if you go with some pre-built thing with super duper case. Really the only big spend (now) is the DE10-Nano. The clone is promising, but we'll have to wait for compatible boards to be created for it, and most importantly we will have to wait and see if the reliability of the thing is on par with the years of tried and tested DE10-Nano board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youxia Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 1 hour ago, eightbit said: The I/O and USB boards are now really cheap. I picked up the I/O board (with the VGA connection as I use it to output component to a CRT) for $27.99. I picked up the USB hub for $29.99. I also picked up a 128MB module for $40. The parts to make a whole "MiSTer" sandwich are really cheap now. The DE10-Nano is $225 from Terasic. I picked up mine used for $150. But, even at full price you are looking at around say $350 with shipping and you'd have it all. It's only $500-$600 if you go with some pre-built thing with super duper case. Really the only big spend (now) is the DE10-Nano. The clone is promising, but we'll have to wait for compatible boards to be created for it, and most importantly we will have to wait and see if the reliability of the thing is on par with the years of tried and tested DE10-Nano board. Are these Ali prices? In any case that I/O board is most likely the old design, the new one (9.2) is a bit more pricey (around 60 USD) and only available via the non-Chinese sellers. It's also worth repeating that these boards are not at all necessary for normal MiSTer operation, so if you're on a budget you can skip them. RAM is the only real requirement. Also, these costs tend to creep up, maybe it's different in the US, and you can really put together the whole stack yourself for 350US but in the Europe and Asia you will usually have some added taxes slapped on top. In any case, 150 vs 350 USD would be no brainer for me. The QMTECH boards have been in circulation for a while now and so far the only problem is the Direct Video can be sketchy (some say only powered dongles work but more data is needed). But even with their additinal IO board costing 70 USD it's still a better deal. The real issue here is availability. They seem to be sold out almost instantly. The word is the QM uses recycled chips so this will probably be a "if get lucky" kinda buy. Hopefully the Taki clones will be a more permanent affair, otherwise all this is just a flash in the pan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 (edited) 6 hours ago, youxia said: Are these Ali prices? In any case that I/O board is most likely the old design, the new one (9.2) is a bit more pricey (around 60 USD) and only available via the non-Chinese sellers. It's also worth repeating that these boards are not at all necessary for normal MiSTer operation, so if you're on a budget you can skip them. RAM is the only real requirement. Also, these costs tend to creep up, maybe it's different in the US, and you can really put together the whole stack yourself for 350US but in the Europe and Asia you will usually have some added taxes slapped on top. In any case, 150 vs 350 USD would be no brainer for me. The QMTECH boards have been in circulation for a while now and so far the only problem is the Direct Video can be sketchy (some say only powered dongles work but more data is needed). But even with their additinal IO board costing 70 USD it's still a better deal. The real issue here is availability. They seem to be sold out almost instantly. The word is the QM uses recycled chips so this will probably be a "if get lucky" kinda buy. Hopefully the Taki clones will be a more permanent affair, otherwise all this is just a flash in the pan. These are ebay prices (USA seller): I/O board (not a 9.2) but works for me: https://www.ebay.com/itm/284890847132 USB Hub (same seller): https://www.ebay.com/itm/284890829968 128MB module (same seller, cheaper direct through his website for some reason): https://www.icode.com/product/mister-fpga-sdram-128mb-xs-ds-board-version-2-9/ I know the USB hub board isn't "necessary" and prior I was using some cheap hub hanging out to the side. It's just not elegant and bothers my OCD. However, for me, the I/O board is absolutely necessary. This is because I dual video output the MiSTer. I have the CRT connected to the I/O board and an HDMI monitor connected to the HDMI. If the QMTech board cannot do direct video and the I/O board needed to do so is $70 that sucks. It means in order to get to where I am now with what I have I'd have to spent $130 on the clone (with the 128MB of ram) and $70 on their special I/O board...so $200. And for a clone at that. It should come with the I/O board and be $150 for the kit But, I am not knocking it. It's great that the DE10 is getting cloned at all. This means a longer life for the MiSTer project using the Cyclone V. Edited August 8 by eightbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youxia Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 (edited) Sure, if it works for you then it's fine, but I was speaking more in the direction of the general public. Users like you or me, who need DV or IO board for CRTs are a minority. And for many people 350 USD (for a kit that needs assembling) is a barrier to FPGA world, so they stick with RPis and the like. 150 USD might just tick that impulse-buy level. But it all boils down to availbilty anyway. Edited August 9 by youxia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 On 8/8/2024 at 3:53 AM, youxia said: The real issue here is availability. They seem to be sold out almost instantly. The word is the QM uses recycled chips so this will probably be a "if get lucky" kinda buy. Hopefully the Taki clones will be a more permanent affair, otherwise all this is just a flash in the pan. Why do you think Taki clones would be any different in this regard? Obviously they both use recycled FPGA chips. This doesn't mean they will not be available, at least for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youxia Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 2 hours ago, ijor said: Obviously they both use recycled FPGA chips. Quote But the real money saving is in cloning the functionality of the DE10-Nano needed for the MiSTer and sourcing the FPGA processor directly from Altera. While Taki didn't disclose the details of their deal with Altera, he said they had no prior relationship with Altera and gave me an overview of how reaching out to a manufacturer to inquire about a rate typically works, and how the prices they offer will likely be based on a few factors. The most relevant one here was volume — the smaller the number of units you're asking for, the higher a profit margin the manufacturer will bake into their price. Reading between the lines, I think he expects this board — and future FPGA products they're building with it — to be popular, which means a juicy order for Altera and a lower price per unit. https://www.readonlymemo.com/cheap-mister-fpga-clone-taki-udon-details-interview-release-plans/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 (edited) 7 hours ago, youxia said: https://www.readonlymemo.com/cheap-mister-fpga-clone-taki-udon-details-interview-release-plans/ Well, if you buy that story and that makes you feel confident getting one of those boards, the better for you. Those of us that don't work in the industry know better. Edited August 10 by ijor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 3 hours ago, ijor said: Well, if you buy that story and that makes you feel confident getting one of those boards, the better for you. Those of us that don't work in the industry know better. Sorry, I meant "those of us that DO work in the industry". Can't edit the original post anymore. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youxia Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 17 hours ago, ijor said: Well, if you buy that story and that makes you feel confident getting one of those boards, the better for you. Those of us that don't work in the industry know better. I don't excactly "buy" this "story", hence my skepticism expressed in the previous post. Not sure exactly why you chose to say that I feel confident about it, since the use of word "hopefully" and phrase "flash in the pan" convey anything but confidence. But I certainly won't give this, ahem, story any less weight than a word of a random internet person, even if that person claims to "work in the industry". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 12 hours ago, youxia said: I don't excactly "buy" this "story", hence my skepticism expressed in the previous post. Not sure exactly why you chose to say that I feel confident about it, since the use of word "hopefully" and phrase "flash in the pan" convey anything but confidence. Sorry. I did understand that you have were pessimist about the availability. But since you quoted that interview, I assumed you were confident about the direct Altera source of those FPGA chips. Sorry about the misunderstanding. Quote But I certainly won't give this, ahem, story any less weight than a word of a random internet person, even if that person claims to "work in the industry". You don't have to trust me. Just use common sense. Qmtech is an established company that has been selling FPGA boards for years. Why they would need to resort to the grey market if it's "easy" enough to negotiate a price low enough directly with Altera? I'm not the only one suspecting that both of them probably get used parts at the grey market. There are plenty of comments online here, and at other forums. In some cases the comments come from people that are known FPGA boards manufacturers and are direct Altera customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youxia Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 6 hours ago, ijor said: Sorry about the misunderstanding. No problem. And yes, I totally agree with your "common sense" take and don't deny that people in-the-know might be right overall. In fact, that was my first reaction when I heard about these miracle 99$ MiSTers. I got berated there for being skeptical about the possibility of it happening Some people within the MiSTer sphere seem to believe in this Taki guy. He certainly talks big, what with planning to produce assorted DE10 based handhelds and multistsytems, for which you'd need a steady supply of Cyclones. Otherwise it'll be just a curiosity, ending up with a puffed up price on ebay because resellers and lucky ones grab the stock when it appears sometime. Well, I guess we'll just have to wait and see...but I'm not holding my breath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 Mister clone store is up, but no stock yet. https://retroremake.co/pages/store prices are very reasonable, wonder how much shipping from HK would be … we’ll see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youxia Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 160 for the whole kit...nice. I will definitely snatch one if I get lucky. Especially seeing as QMTech seems perpetually sold out now. Already have one for normal CRT, one for TATE, might as well have one for the big HDMI screen. What the heck, YOLO Oh wait, might need one for VGA - based machines too. But at ~120 USD even that seems possible. The only snag seems their cheap delivery option "might take up to 90 days". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted September 2 Share Posted September 2 (edited) I read of some shenanigans wrt ram module. Taki shows his module but it seems the factory cloned the MiSTer one from sorgelig but removed the credits … so now Taki wants to add a sticker (plus some Patreon funds) and because of that he has delayed the whole launch …. the website pic shows the clone (Taki design is different on a video). Not sure I’d delay the whole thing, people can buy ram stick elsewhere for now and still test the clone de10-nano board which is what really matters imho. Well, wait and see, me personally I really dig the ram stick at 20us$, everyone else is at least double if not more … not sure I actually need/want a second full stack, at 160us$ it’s tempting once I figure out the hard-to-gauge dhl-shipping option, the 2x one if it really takes 3mo makes the whole thing somewhat impractical (I regularly wait up to 1mo when buying on eBay from china but 3 months is pushing it). Edited September 2 by phoenixdownita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youxia Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 1st batch launches tomorrow (4th Sept/5th Sept BJT) 8PM EST, apparently. https://x.com/TakiUdon_/status/1830969380278280355 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.