Another Galaga thread

[BIGHMW]

Knowing that POKEY and ANTIC/GTIA are (on 8-Bit/5200) more versatile than TIA and MARIA are (on the 7800) is there a chance that we can maybe lure none other than @PacManPlus Bob Decrescenzo himself into perhaps doing 5200 versions of his masterpieces he did on the 7800 (like his versions of Astro Blaster the arcade game not the pinball simulation, Astro Fighter, Moon Cresta, UniWarS and Frenzy among them) and make those into instant classics for Big Sexy like they are for the 7800???

 

If @playsoft is serious about joining the 7800 flock maybe perhaps maybe we can land @PacManPlus come this transfer window (for those whom are not familiar with it in REAL football that is the selling/buying period, come January and August every league season).

[Keatah]

On 10/6/2021 at 10:17 PM, ALEXANDER said:

With all respect to Sid, Pokey is better for its 4 channels although the first one has more technology in mixng sounds. Anyway, Pokey rules because its sound is clearer. Pokey rules !!!

Indeed. There were only a coupla instances where I preferred SID over POKEY. But coming from the Apple II world which had a 1-bit flip-flop for the sound processor, either one was lightyears ahead.

[Aking]

http://www.indieretronews.com/2021/10/galaga-arcade-classic-is-also-coming-to.html

[+x=usr(1536)]

1 hour ago, Aking said:

http://www.indieretronews.com/2021/10/galaga-arcade-classic-is-also-coming-to.html

 

[Lynxpro]

On 10/5/2021 at 11:11 PM, BIGHMW said:

Paul Lay @playsoft, you have really knocked it out of the ballpark (how ironic I say that during the middle of the MLB postseason at that!!!) with these builds of Galaga, these are far better than that "Galaga" titled game that is currently circulating around the 8-bit community right now. TWO BIG THUMBS UP!!! Now more than ever these builds have gotta be worked on to completion!!!

 

Now also, if @Thelen can come up with that improved version of his brilliant 2009 work "Yar's Strike" he wanted (and that my review on it inspired him to come up with, as I love it for Big Sexy, as it has become one of my favorite games on her) to do (and for you to port it over to the 5200, I'm sure you two can team up on it, that's up to you guys on that one) in which you ported for all of us 5200 owners, that would be the icing on the cake for the XEGS and then it's just "wait and see" if the Mean Hamster lineup of titles (and all the other 5200-only homebrews also) will ever be ported over and also if Keithen Hayenga will ever make Tempest available for the XEGS but at least I also own a 5200 to play those on as well.

 

If you're going to bring up Yar's Strike - isn't that just 2600 Yars' Revenge ported to A8/5200? - then I'm going to bring up Jar's Revenge on the C64. Even HSW liked it when he saw it. And there's also the licensed adaptation that Mike Mikka did for the Game Boy Color ages ago. It might be nice to see that playing on a 5200 with the cut scenes.

 

I don't see why Keithen would port Tempest to A8. It's not like A8 cart sales do anything like 5200 cart sales. Plus, he worked on 5200 games back in his days at Atari Inc. He wasn't part of the Home Computer Division.

[Lynxpro]

On 4/23/2020 at 5:45 PM, kiwilove said:

No - I don't have a 7800 - but still I like to see what has been happening with it's homebrews.  Bentley Bear never impressed me at all - sure it's masterful in how someone has stepped up and made the effort to produce something worthwhile for the 7800 - but it's graphic designs are more like Maniac Miner, than Miner 2049'er - whereas it could have tried to step up to the plate - to maybe match Wonderboy?  Rikki & Vikki is nice to see, although it's hardly pushing the 7800 hardware - but nice game design.  It's standard of graphics is high.  Of course the main reason why there hasn't been a great deal of homebrews for the 7800 must be because of the difficulty in developing for it.  That no development kits have come to light and an absence of information about the hardware, etc.  Xevious was not the best version possible?  The limitations being that RAM prices were high and they were working within the limits of that time.  That being why Xevious and Galaga ended up being what they are.  Being redone as homebrews today - they can be closer to their arcade originals - but no one has the know how, development tools etc to redo them.  Likewise for Xevious and Zaxxon for the 8-bit Atari hardware.  Much improved versions could be done - if there was an experienced programmer willing to put the time and effort to redo them.

 

Harvey

 

What are you smoking?  7800 Xevious blows away the Famicom/NES version, the C64 version, and the Atari ST version.

[Lynxpro]

On 10/6/2021 at 8:17 PM, ALEXANDER said:

With all respect to Sid, Pokey is better for its 4 channels although the first one has more technology in mixng sounds. Anyway, Pokey rules because its sound is clearer. Pokey rules !!!

 

I definitely prefer POKEY over SID. But if someone really pushed Dual POKEY or better in the homebrew scene, it would probably encourage 5200 enthusiasts into slapping a PokeyMAX into their 5200s.

[kiwilove]

15 minutes ago, Lynxpro said:

 

What are you smoking?  7800 Xevious blows away the Famicom/NES version, the C64 version, and the Atari ST version.

I think the NES conversion keeps the look/ratio of the coin-op better than the closer detailed view of the 7800 conversion.  The C-64 conversion has this closer in view too that spoils it.  Obviously the C-64 team responsible weren't up to the task - of delivering a quality conversion.  It was a late conversion in which Xevious was seen to be a dated simplistic game because current shooters (of that time) had plenty of powerups.  The NES conversion suffered from diverging away from the original graphics to a more simpler look/variation away from it.  Maybe it was a lack of memory available - that they took this route?  Sales went through the roof however, such that Nintendo was able to finance a new building from it's cart sales.  And they delivered a sequel which featured new graphics.  The best home version would be the PC-Engine conversion, but I think it got a lukewarm reception because of the year in which it turned up, way past it's hey-day as a groundbreaking shooter.

The Jaguar has got a quality coin-op conversion of Xevious, though I haven't read up on it lately to confirm how it's the best conversion to date?

 don't expect to see anyone wanting to rework Xevious for the 7800 to show how much better it can be done.  Or to add enhancements to it to show how a few tweaks to it, can lift it higher up to expectations of today's players.

I'm all for adding in minor or major tweaks or upgrades to classic videogame conversions, while keeping in the fun the original has.

 

Harvey

 

[Lynxpro]

22 minutes ago, kiwilove said:

I think the NES conversion keeps the look/ratio of the coin-op better than the closer detailed view of the 7800 conversion.  The C-64 conversion has this closer in view too that spoils it.  Obviously the C-64 team responsible weren't up to the task - of delivering a quality conversion.  It was a late conversion in which Xevious was seen to be a dated simplistic game because current shooters (of that time) had plenty of powerups.  The NES conversion suffered from diverging away from the original graphics to a more simpler look/variation away from it.  Maybe it was a lack of memory available - that they took this route?  Sales went through the roof however, such that Nintendo was able to finance a new building from it's cart sales.  And they delivered a sequel which featured new graphics.  The best home version would be the PC-Engine conversion, but I think it got a lukewarm reception because of the year in which it turned up, way past it's hey-day as a groundbreaking shooter.

The Jaguar has got a quality coin-op conversion of Xevious, though I haven't read up on it lately to confirm how it's the best conversion to date?

 don't expect to see anyone wanting to rework Xevious for the 7800 to show how much better it can be done.  Or to add enhancements to it to show how a few tweaks to it, can lift it higher up to expectations of today's players.

I'm all for adding in minor or major tweaks or upgrades to classic videogame conversions, while keeping in the fun the original has.

 

Harvey

 

 

The Jaguar does not have an arcade quality conversion. It has the sh*tty ST version ported to it.

[kiwilove]

18 hours ago, Lynxpro said:

 

The Jaguar does not have an arcade quality conversion. It has the sh*tty ST version ported to it.

I can only go by the videos, and the Jaguar conversion does seem to be pretty close to the arcade.  I just can't confirm whether it has the silky smooth movement present in it.  Colour wise and graphic wise, it is a huge improvement over the ST version.

The ST conversion, was I think a fairly competent conversion considering the ST hardware limitations.  I am surprised that looking at now, how much it looks like the 7800 conversion in terms of the screen ratio used and it's close up view.  My memory of it back in the day, was very different.  I know I didn't spend a lot of time playing it, that it lacked the playability and fun of the original.  i wasn't a good player at Xevious and got as far as I could, just like the coin-op game, just past the mother ship.

I think C-64 players would have been hugely disappointed with their conversion after seeing the full page colour advertisement for it.  Maybe more money was spent on the advertising than it's conversion development.

 

Harvey

[BIGHMW]

On 10/27/2021 at 4:01 PM, Lynxpro said:

I don't see why Keithen would port Tempest to A8. It's not like A8 cart sales do anything like 5200 cart sales. Plus, he worked on 5200 games back in his days at Atari Inc. He wasn't part of the Home Computer Division.

I don't see why, of all people, Homesoft, who usually is spot-on with his terrific 5200-to-A8 conversions, didn't do Tempest or the fully-finished AtariAge version of Xari Arena. They are still, to this day, not available for the A8, as is the case with all 5 of the (now-defunct) Mean Hamster Software titles. Simple, For the A8 Tempest all you need to do is change the activation of the Superzapper to moving the joystick either up or down to activate it, much like V61/Atari Sales' Tempest Xtreem did. As for Xari Arena I have yet to play it but will most certainly check it out as soon as I learn how to play her via a YouTube tutorial video.

[phuzaxeman]

7 hours ago, BIGHMW said:

I don't see why, of all people, Homesoft, who usually is spot-on with his terrific 5200-to-A8 conversions, didn't do Tempest or the fully-finished AtariAge version of Xari Arena. They are still, to this day, not available for the A8, as is the case with all 5 of the (now-defunct) Mean Hamster Software titles. Simple, For the A8 Tempest all you need to do is change the activation of the Superzapper to moving the joystick either up or down to activate it, much like V61/Atari Sales' Tempest Xtreem did. As for Xari Arena I have yet to play it but will most certainly check it out as soon as I learn how to play her via a YouTube tutorial video.

There's no Keithen Tempest because he created for the 5200 exclusively. It's his right. He doesn't want the rom floating around for others to port. If you want 5200 Tempest, play it on the system it was created for. I noticed you're starting to make your requests again. 

 

#fortheH

Edited October 29, 2021 by phuzaxeman

[BIGHMW]

2 hours ago, phuzaxeman said:

There's no Keithen Tempest because he created for the 5200 exclusively. It's his right. He doesn't want the rom floating around for others to port. If you want 5200 Tempest, play it on the system it was created for. I noticed you're starting to make your requests again. 

 

#fortheH

Yeah I've had a relapse, thank you for bringing that up.  I do have Big Sexy and I already picked my two systems if it came down to the point where I can only own two, the 5200 and 7800.

Edited October 29, 2021 by BIGHMW
Punctuation mark in wrong place

[+x=usr(1536)]

9 hours ago, BIGHMW said:

Yeah I've had a relapse, thank you for bringing that up.

Unfortunately, it does need to be brought up.  Again.  Your posts are coming across as demanding, entitled, and disrespectful towards the people who actually put the work into these games.

 

What you are effectively doing is dictating to them that they need to cater to your every whim.  And please don't go on about how this 'benefits the community' or similar: you're looking to benefit Ray Jackson, and only Ray Jackson.  If it just happens to do someone else some good, that's not even on your radar.  All you care about is getting what you want.

 

Stop it.  It's beyond old.

[Synthpopalooza]

On 10/27/2021 at 7:15 PM, Lynxpro said:

 

I definitely prefer POKEY over SID. But if someone really pushed Dual POKEY or better in the homebrew scene, it would probably encourage 5200 enthusiasts into slapping a PokeyMAX into their 5200s.

 

Double POKEY blows everything else 8-bit away.  Not only more channels, but the ability to join them into four 16-bit channels with precise resolution, even in C distortions.  For examples of this, I did some renditions of Metroid music in double POKEY in another thread ...

[BIGHMW]

3 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Unfortunately, it does need to be brought up.  Again.  Your posts are coming across as demanding, entitled, and disrespectful towards the people who actually put the work into these games.

 

What you are effectively doing is dictating to them that they need to cater to your every whim.  And please don't go on about how this 'benefits the community' or similar: you're looking to benefit Ray Jackson, and only Ray Jackson.  If it just happens to do someone else some good, that's not even on your radar.  All you care about is getting what you want.

 

Stop it.  It's beyond old.

That probably explains the reason why Cindy Margolis hasn't gotten back to me on why I have the talent and what it takes to "make it" in this business, I think you send a very strong message and that maybe I am starting to think more about myself more than my fans and all of you. guys 

[+Stephen]

11 hours ago, BIGHMW said:

That probably explains the reason why Cindy Margolis hasn't gotten back to me

[Keatah]

https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/brunch/not-so-blissful-ignorance-the-dunning-kruger-effect-at-work

 

We must remain mindful..

[+x=usr(1536)]

23 hours ago, BIGHMW said:

I think you send a very strong message and that maybe I am starting to think more about myself more than my fans and all of you. guys 

Sending a strong message certainly was my intention, but note that I'm also not the only one to do so.

 

Having said that, I sincerely hope that the message did make it through.  You're not someone whom I dislike or have a problem with, but what you have been doing recently has become increasingly intolerable.

 

No reply is necessary, and I'm done with derailing the thread; there will be no further replies by me to this part of it.

[BIGHMW]

Let's all just focus on this great port.

[jerseystyle]

On 10/30/2021 at 9:41 AM, Stephen said:

Yeah man, that’s the reason.

[Lynxpro]

On 10/28/2021 at 12:13 PM, kiwilove said:

I can only go by the videos, and the Jaguar conversion does seem to be pretty close to the arcade.  I just can't confirm whether it has the silky smooth movement present in it.  Colour wise and graphic wise, it is a huge improvement over the ST version.

The ST conversion, was I think a fairly competent conversion considering the ST hardware limitations.  I am surprised that looking at now, how much it looks like the 7800 conversion in terms of the screen ratio used and it's close up view.  My memory of it back in the day, was very different.  I know I didn't spend a lot of time playing it, that it lacked the playability and fun of the original.  i wasn't a good player at Xevious and got as far as I could, just like the coin-op game, just past the mother ship.

I think C-64 players would have been hugely disappointed with their conversion after seeing the full page colour advertisement for it.  Maybe more money was spent on the advertising than it's conversion development.

 

Harvey

 

If you "can only go by the videos", then you aren't typing from any sort of informed opinion. The ST version of Xevious plays like sh*t. The audio is sh*t. Sure, it's higher res but the gameplay sucks. And the arcade aspect ration also sucks when playing on a 12" SC1224 monitor versus an obviously larger CRT TV for the 7800.  The ST conversion is not competent in any way compared to the 7800 version. And the NES version sucks in gameplay compared to the 7800 version just like most other games that were ported to both the 7800 and the NES.

[kiwilove]

17 hours ago, Lynxpro said:

 

If you "can only go by the videos", then you aren't typing from any sort of informed opinion. The ST version of Xevious plays like sh*t. The audio is sh*t. Sure, it's higher res but the gameplay sucks. And the arcade aspect ration also sucks when playing on a 12" SC1224 monitor versus an obviously larger CRT TV for the 7800.  The ST conversion is not competent in any way compared to the 7800 version. And the NES version sucks in gameplay compared to the 7800 version just like most other games that were ported to both the 7800 and the NES.

Yes - as you say - I am uninformed.  Sure I played the ST conversion, and felt it was OK.  A decent effort.  While not a good player at Xevious I have long admired the coin-op.  Even had a top player play through the coin-op for me, as it was videoed, to act as a reference so as to try to include elements of it in a Atari 800 game - that I designed the graphics for.  I'm no programmer.  Found my own way of doing forest graphics with limited redefined characters.  I haven't played NES nor 7800 Xevious conversions and can only go by what I see in videos.

BTW Xevious on the Jaguar looks nothing like the ST conversion.  It looks arcade perfect, as I expect it to be, for this hardware.  There's no point in porting across the ST version onto the Jaguar hardware

Xevious the coin-op was designed for a vertical orientated monitor and so compromises are made for any horizontal orientated home versions.  I don't expect you and I to agree on anything here.  I think NES sales of Xevious went through the roof, so if it sucked in gameplay, why did Japanese players like about it?  I give due credit to any NES game that deserves it , being a quality game.  NES Xevious may not be so highly ranked amongst NES titles, but it doesn't really suck either, compared against really bad NES games.

 

Harvey

Edited November 12, 2021 by kiwilove

[Lynxpro]

On 11/12/2021 at 3:13 PM, kiwilove said:

Xevious the coin-op was designed for a vertical orientated monitor and so compromises are made for any horizontal orientated home versions.  I don't expect you and I to agree on anything here.  I think NES sales of Xevious went through the roof, so if it sucked in gameplay, why did Japanese players like about it?  I give due credit to any NES game that deserves it , being a quality game.  NES Xevious may not be so highly ranked amongst NES titles, but it doesn't really suck either, compared against really bad NES games.

 

Harvey

 

I really don't care what Japanese Famicom players felt about Xevious on their console. The game sucks compared to the 7800 version. Likewise, the NES version of Gyruss is a complete NES'ified abomination that doesn't play like the arcade original. Yet it sold well.