Porkchops & Applesauce Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 So I pulled my 800XL and gear from storage. It'll boot up to READY prompt, play a cartridge game, and pass all self tests. However, I'm unable to use any of my peripherals (2x 810 drives - one Happy, 1010 recorder, and 1025 printer). Any help isolating the problem is greatly appreciated. Here's what I've tried so far... - CSAVE: No apparent issues trying to save "hello world" program to cassette. Beeps and starts spinning while recording. Back to READY prompt and recorder stops when done. - CLOAD: Error 138. Apparently didn't record. RETURN key properly starts recorder playing but no noises. - LIST/LOAD D1 & D2: Error 130. Nothing. Neither drive will spin when turning computer on. OPTION-on goes straight to test screen. Drive switches are set to 1 & 2, and have tried swapping them, plus each individually as D1. Note: Drives will power up with momentary busy light when computer is off. - LIST "P:": Error 138. Nothing. Printer head resets position when turning on computer. I've tried all peripherals daisy chained and individually, swapping out the IO cables with same results. I removed all socket chips from the motherboard, cleaned everything and no difference. Need a new POKEY chip? Anything else it could be? Thanks for the help guys! Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/296357-sio-issues-cannot-use-peripherals/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urchlay Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 Might just need to clean the SIO cables & port. Get a can of Deoxit or QD electronics cleaner, spray into all the holes in the ends of all your SIO cables. After spraying each one plug/unplug it in the SIO port a few times. If that doesn't help, try replacing the SIO cables, if you can find any on ebay or whatever. The tape you tried to CSAVE to, what happens if you listen to it on a regular audio tape player? You should hear the squeals and jangly data blocks, if it actually recorded anything. It's possible you have a bad POKEY, but the machine boots and you can hear audio during the audio/visual part of the self-test, and the keyboard works, right? So the POKEY is at least somewhat working. A replacement is pretty easy to get, worth a try, if cleaning the cables & port doesn't help. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/296357-sio-issues-cannot-use-peripherals/#findComment-4355418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrbrevin Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 bent pin in the socket? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/296357-sio-issues-cannot-use-peripherals/#findComment-4355445 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porkchops & Applesauce Posted September 22, 2019 Author Share Posted September 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Urchlay said: Might just need to clean the SIO cables & port. Get a can of Deoxit or QD electronics cleaner, spray into all the holes in the ends of all your SIO cables. After spraying each one plug/unplug it in the SIO port a few times. If that doesn't help, try replacing the SIO cables, if you can find any on ebay or whatever. The tape you tried to CSAVE to, what happens if you listen to it on a regular audio tape player? You should hear the squeals and jangly data blocks, if it actually recorded anything. It's possible you have a bad POKEY, but the machine boots and you can hear audio during the audio/visual part of the self-test, and the keyboard works, right? So the POKEY is at least somewhat working. A replacement is pretty easy to get, worth a try, if cleaning the cables & port doesn't help. Thanks for the tips. Yes, all keys work. All cables and ports have been cleaned using contact cleaner. Tried all four SIO cables (one of them the good brand with round sockets) in both 1010 ports. Always Error 140. I've verified nothing was recorded for my test program using an audio tape player. I want to add that when I try to load a prerecorded commercial program tape I don't hear that high-pitch lead-in that I seem to recall I should through the TV speaker. My audio tape player however confirms it's there. I do hear some "squeals" momentarily before the Error 140 appears, but it doesn't sound like the ones on the tape. It's a much lower tone. I hear the same thing using my test tape that I've confirmed has nothing on it. Also, I did notice if I boot using power-START I'll get a BOOT ERROR message and the tape will continue running (still no sound from the cassette). I only get the Error 140 using CLOAD. At 1/4 to 1/3 the cost of a new 800XL I'm hesitant to replace the POKEY chip without reasonable certainty that's the cause. As you mentioned, it does appear to be somewhat working (e.g. passing sound tests & starting/stopping the tape player). I'd love to know if there's a way to confirm it's the POKEY chip using nothing more than what I've got and perhaps a multimeter. Cheers friend! Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/296357-sio-issues-cannot-use-peripherals/#findComment-4355475 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porkchops & Applesauce Posted September 22, 2019 Author Share Posted September 22, 2019 1 hour ago, xrbrevin said: bent pin in the socket? Sadly, no. All SIO pins and sockets on motherboard, cables and peripherals all look straight and clean. Cheers friend! Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/296357-sio-issues-cannot-use-peripherals/#findComment-4355476 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+kheller2 Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 Assuming your 810s are sort of working, cable up one of them to the XL as drive one. Turn power off XL and 810. Turn on 810 and wait for ready light to go out. Turn on XL. if you don't get a boot error, repeat with 2nd 810, different cable, different port. The XL should puke and give you boot errors when turned on with a working floppy set to 1 with nothing in the drive. Assuming you set the dip switches properly. It is interesting that you can save to tape properly... that means data in/out and motor control are working Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/296357-sio-issues-cannot-use-peripherals/#findComment-4355486 Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrbrevin Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 the common factor in all this appears to be the 800XL itself. some understanding of the SIO operations may be required, i have never had a fault like this so unfortunately my knowledge is limited. the pinout is as follows: 1 1 2 4 6 8 0 2 ----------- /o o o o o o\ /o o o o o o o\ ----------------- 1 3 5 7 9 1 1 1 3 1 clock in (to computer) 2 clock out 3 data in 4 GND 5 data out 6 GND 7 command (active low) 8 cassette motor control 9 proceed (active low) 10 +5V/ready 11 audio in 12 +12V (400/800) 13 interrupt (active low) when you play your recorded tape on an audio player, can you hear audible data? the fact that the csave operation completed suggests that your data out, cassette motor control and command are working. the fact that you do not hear the lead-in tone and data sounds when attempting loading suggests that pin 11 could be faulty but i dont think it is the only issue here. do you have a multimeter? some SIO connectors can be a tight fit and it is possible that 'flex' may have cracked a solder joint to the PCB. if poss, check continuity of pins and move on to check the components that are in line after the pins. if you search the forum topics, there are some SIO mods out there that require removal of certain capacitors and adding a resistor. so if a component has failed you may find a solution just by removing it? hope this helps but hopefully someone with more knowledge can advise? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/296357-sio-issues-cannot-use-peripherals/#findComment-4355498 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porkchops & Applesauce Posted September 23, 2019 Author Share Posted September 23, 2019 42 minutes ago, kheller2 said: The XL should puke and give you boot errors when turned on with a working floppy set to 1 with nothing in the drive. Assuming you set the dip switches properly. Oh yeah, I remember that now, the repeating boot error message! Man, it's been so long, 20+ years when I put this machine in storage because of this problem I'm still having that I've forgotten much of how this thing works. So sad. I get nothing. The 800XL acts like the drives don't exist, and boots to READY prompt. I've hooked both drives up separately, set as D1, using different cables and ports. Same issue. By all accounts the drives seem to be working. Turn them on - the power LED comes on, busy light stays on briefly while the hub and stepper motors adjust. I'm working under the assumption all my peripherals, power supplies and IO cables are good. It's odd because there is some communication happening via the SIO, at least with regard to the 1010 cassette motor control. Cheers friend! Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/296357-sio-issues-cannot-use-peripherals/#findComment-4355537 Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Pokey and PIA is where I'd start, clean and reseat any and all socketd chips, push them in before pulling them up and de oxit Then see what happens... 1 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/296357-sio-issues-cannot-use-peripherals/#findComment-4355541 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porkchops & Applesauce Posted September 23, 2019 Author Share Posted September 23, 2019 1 hour ago, xrbrevin said: when you play your recorded tape on an audio player, can you hear audible data? the fact that the csave operation completed suggests that your data out, cassette motor control and command are working. Thanks again for the help and useful pin diagram. I've verified using a tape player that no audio is being recorded during CSAVE. No data out? When I try to CLOAD a commercially purchased cassette (confirmed data via audio player) I'll get Error 140. No data in? However, CSAVE and CLOAD does activate the cassette motor, so at least I know some communication is working. I can confirm there is continuity at least between where the SIO socket is soldered to the board and the end of a SIO cable. Cheers friend! Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/296357-sio-issues-cannot-use-peripherals/#findComment-4355558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariGeezer Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 If you have sound in the self tests, then it seems to be narrowed down to a bad PIA 6520 IC. Atari Part #C014795... Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/296357-sio-issues-cannot-use-peripherals/#findComment-4355566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porkchops & Applesauce Posted September 23, 2019 Author Share Posted September 23, 2019 35 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said: Pokey and PIA is where I'd start, clean and reseat any and all socketd chips, push them in before pulling them up and de oxit Then see what happens... Thanks for the tip! I've pulled every socket chip, blasted the motherboard top and bottom with WD-40 contact cleaner, cleaned every chip contact with a soft toothbrush and 99.9% isopropyl alcohol, and reseated all the chips. Same problem Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/296357-sio-issues-cannot-use-peripherals/#findComment-4355570 Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrbrevin Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 if you have to replace it, the PIA is a low cost universal 'off the shelf' part. you dont have to buy an atari branded one. just make sure you get the right speed rating: Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/296357-sio-issues-cannot-use-peripherals/#findComment-4355572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 (edited) No corroded or broken traces/ bad solder joints, all sockets strong and all contacts in their holes looked normal? No bulging capacitors etc... Do you have access to any pbi devices any one nearby to try chip swap of Pokey, PIA, or possibly moving the ram around... the PIA is cheap on alibab amazon etc... the pokey from 7800 cartridge possibly, arcade video cabinet or best, B&C, ben, MyAtari etc... Atari Freaks online shops Edited September 23, 2019 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/296357-sio-issues-cannot-use-peripherals/#findComment-4355573 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Setting aside the cassette issues, since nearly all Atari cassette drive belts go bad over time and turn to goo, let’s talk about your disk issues. Have you actually booted DOS first before you’re trying to save or load BASIC files from disk? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/296357-sio-issues-cannot-use-peripherals/#findComment-4355574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porkchops & Applesauce Posted September 23, 2019 Author Share Posted September 23, 2019 1 hour ago, DrVenkman said: Have you actually booted DOS Sadly, it seems I'm unable to communicate with my disk drives. Computer goes straight to READY prompt when either/both drives are connected. Cheers! Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/296357-sio-issues-cannot-use-peripherals/#findComment-4355622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porkchops & Applesauce Posted September 23, 2019 Author Share Posted September 23, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, _The Doctor__ said: No corroded or broken traces/ bad solder joints, all sockets strong and all contacts in their holes looked normal? No bulging capacitors etc... Do you have access to any pbi devices Thanks for the tips. There is nothing my admittedly untrained eye can see that's wrong. Unfortunately I don't readily have access to a PBI device, or chips to swap out. Edited September 23, 2019 by Porkchops & Applesauce uploaded board pics Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/296357-sio-issues-cannot-use-peripherals/#findComment-4355628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porkchops & Applesauce Posted September 23, 2019 Author Share Posted September 23, 2019 Thanks everyone! I think I'll start by replacing the PIA chip first and go from there. The only thing that gives me pause that might not be the problem is because I have full use of my joystick with a cartridge game. I'll keep everyone posted and let you know how it goes. For now, please enjoy this pic of my gear as a thank you for all your advise and support! Let's hope this classic lives to see another day. Cheers! Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/296357-sio-issues-cannot-use-peripherals/#findComment-4355642 Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 while your in there next time make sure to pull the speed limiting caps for the sio lines... Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/296357-sio-issues-cannot-use-peripherals/#findComment-4355645 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porkchops & Applesauce Posted September 23, 2019 Author Share Posted September 23, 2019 1 minute ago, _The Doctor__ said: while your in there next time make sure to pull the speed limiting caps for the sio lines... What's this magic you speak of? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/296357-sio-issues-cannot-use-peripherals/#findComment-4355646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caterpiggle Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Maybe it has do with 2 yellow wires aftermarket ? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/296357-sio-issues-cannot-use-peripherals/#findComment-4355649 Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 (edited) The wires are common factory bodge Edited September 23, 2019 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/296357-sio-issues-cannot-use-peripherals/#findComment-4355650 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porkchops & Applesauce Posted September 23, 2019 Author Share Posted September 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, Caterpiggle said: Maybe it has do with 2 yellow wires aftermarket ? Nope. I bought this computer new in the 80's, and have made zero modifications to it. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/296357-sio-issues-cannot-use-peripherals/#findComment-4355655 Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 clean and work the drive selector switches... take care to connect all sio cords with no power cords plugged into wall, plug the power to the devices before the wall.... sometimes 810's selector switches get funky and gunky sitting around, and the sio being plugged/ power connected but no one can still clobber id select chip sometimes... Thats about it till you can chip swap... Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/296357-sio-issues-cannot-use-peripherals/#findComment-4355657 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caterpiggle Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Hello _The Doctor_ That is strange, almost none of mine 800XL has that yellow wires. Strange enough ... Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/296357-sio-issues-cannot-use-peripherals/#findComment-4355659 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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