CollectorVision Phoenix Release Thread

[Keatah]

On 3/25/2022 at 12:42 AM, wongojack said:

I would appreciate more updates on core revisions.  The Phoenix did not work correctly on either of my HDMI displays when I first got it.  I have posted on the GitHub item for this issue which has not been updated in a long time.  There is no fix for this.  The only resolution proposed is to use a composite adapter.  I have a composite adapter that introduces significant lag and makes the pack-in game too hard.   Supposedly, a different adapter has been tested and found to have minimal lag, but I've already got 2 adapters for this thing (one to avoid the power problem and one for composite), and it seems a little ridiculous to keep buying them.

I'm not an adapter fan myself. I disliked having to have used an RF Modulator back in the day on my Apple II -to- RF Television. It's a modulator technically. But a consumer sees it as an adapter.

 

I suppose the best way to enjoy a system is match the display device as natively as possible without conversions and adapting signals. It's a philosophy I never stray from except in times of experimentation and amusement. Sometimes this means changing the source generator (the console) to something entirely different. Or doing the same with the display. Mix and match till it works.

 

But I will tell you one time I had my A2 going to an RF modulator, to a VCR to output back into composite, then into a GeForce AGP card with TV in, And then out to VGA. Whatta jank-a-skank setup that was.

[Aracabata]

The Phoenix gives me the option of using an SNES controller, upload ROM Images or play my existing physical media, and connects to my modern TV and plays without noticeable lag. What's not to like about it? I hate the original controllers and this replaced my aging consoles that barely work.

 

Of course I'd love to see an MSX, SMS and Adam kernel added. Maybe SG-1000 some day. That would be amazing, but this as it sits is exactly what I bought and it delivers better than I ever thought it would. I honestly don't care about the Atari 2600 kernel. I have a dozen ways to play Atari 2600 games.

[TPR]

17 hours ago, retroillucid said:

Let me clear things up a little bit.... 

We (CollectorVision) all wants a perfect Atari/CV cores, we also want MSX1 and SMS cores as well
So it's not like we don't want to have those supported! 

I think it's also important to remind everyone that additional cores beyond ColecoVision and Atari 2600 were never part of the original pitch, the original package, and it is not what the console was sold on.  The exact wording in the original Kickstarter and that has lived on the CollectorVision site about future expansions or additional cores reads as follows:

 

Quote

Expandability

The CollectorVision Phoenix is an Open Source system, so it will be able to be upgraded and expanded in the future using open source FPGA cores. It will be possible to expand the capabilities of the Phoenix to work as other systems, like the Atari 2600, once the core has been ported to the Phoenix.

At no point was any date given to any future expandability nor were any specific cores promised on any of the pages where you would have given CollectorVision any money.  There might have been cores that were mentioned in one of the threads on this forum or on the Facebook groups, but at no point was any of that "promised" with any specific date set.  And I do still believe those cores may be made available... "in the future."

 

The console is also open source, so at any point, any one of us could have contributed a core or funded the amount to have a core produced and so far no one has come forward to make any attempts to do either of those things as far as I'm aware.

 

Those of you who are complaining about the video output not working or the Atari 2600 core not being 100%, those may be valid complaints, and while I do understand there is a third party "fix" for the video output by purchasing another piece of hardware as an HDMI passthrough, those of you who don't want to do that and just keep complaining about it is personally what I cannot stand.  If you are that unhappy with your console, please just stop the complaining and take the refund that I know that CollectorVision has offered, or take me up on my offer for me to buy your console so I can give it to someone else who would appreciate it more.

 

As I said earlier, I am just sick of all the complaining.  The Phoenix works "just fine" as promised for being a platform to play your ColecoVision games.  The Atari 2600 core is a "bonus" and should be looked at as nothing more than that.

 

While some of you may not have appreciated my harshness of my earlier comments, I really do not care. It needed to be said.  The complaining really just needs to stop.  Get a refund or sell your console if after four years you still feel the need to constantly complain. 

 

No one wants or needs to hear it anymore.

[Hastor]

I like my Phoenix, but if any work is ever resumed on it, I'd personally be most interested in seeing the issues affecting ColecoVision games addressed first and formost, along with roller controller issues. I enjoy mine when I play it, and have a real CV for things that I have any issue with on the Phoenix. So I'm definitely happy with my game access. Though if work is resumed, rather than fixing the Atari core, I'd rather see it build on the original pitch of being an accurate Colecovision clone first and foremost. Like the wall glitch in the Zoom 909 port etc. I think this would be more important for someone using it for dev as well, but that's not me.

 

Again, happy with mine and most of what I play works on it along with an HDMI switch to fix the power issue, but if we're prioritizing requests for a possible scenario in which they'll be addressed, I think making its core feature more accurate would be my top priority.

Edited November 26, 2022 by Hastor

[TPR]

I have gone ahead and cleaned up this thread in an effort to get it back on track. 
 

If you have any legitimate questions about the Phoenix, please feel free to post them here so that CollectorVision can address them. 
 

Any further complaining for the sake of complaining will be removed. 
 

It’s been four years. If you are still complaining about the same issues and you refuse to take the refund that CollectorVision has offered or you are not willing to sell the console, that’s on you. 
 

I think I’ve made myself perfectly clear. 
 

Thank you. 

[Lil Alien]

I have always loved my unit. I just wish the TV-compatibility issue would be resolved, and I'm golden. Obviously buying more hardware to make it work is not an ideal choice, so some of us are using alternative TVs in another room in the meantime.

 

I wish I had the skills to help with the cores, I hope someone else can help finish the TV compatibility issue as a priority and would have no problem donating to that end!

 

Last I heard someone was going to work on it after finishing some game, and a year has gone by and that still hasn't happened.

 

Can we do some donations to help fund it somewhat? I'd be in day one to assist with that!

[TPR]

On 3/25/2022 at 4:41 PM, retroillucid said:

Our main programmer is still busy finishing our SNES game
Once he's completely done with it, he'll resume works on the Phoenix

Please, keep in mind we (CollectorVision) all want perfectly working core(s)
It's not something we don't care of don't want to improve, cause we REALLY want!

And since the Phoenix is open source, anyone can work on it, not just us. 

 

 

16 minutes ago, Lil Alien said:

I have always loved my unit. I just wish the TV-compatibility issue would be resolved, and I'm golden.

 

Last I heard someone was going to work on it after finishing some game, and a year has gone by and that still hasn't happened.

I’m going to assume that the answer is the same as what JF posted above the last three times you have asked the same question this year. 
 

This is the piece of hardware I currently use to get it working on one of my TV’s. 
 

Please PM me your mailing address and I will buy one for you. If that will help make you stop asking the same question over and over only to get the same answer over and over until CollectorVision has the time and resources to fix the issue, I’m happy to do that. 
 

 

[+evg2000]

And don't forget there is a third core available.  Hanimex Pencil II!

[TPR]

9 minutes ago, evg2000 said:

And don't forget there is a third core available.  Hanimex Pencil II!

That is an excellent point!  Technically, the "expandability" clause in the original sales pitch has now been fulfilled! 👍

[+Sargon]

5 hours ago, TPR said:

 

I’m going to assume that the answer is the same as what JF posted above the last three times you have asked the same question this year. 
 

This is the piece of hardware I currently use to get it working on one of my TV’s. 
 

Please PM me your mailing address and I will buy one for you. If that will help make you stop asking the same question over and over only to get the same answer over and over until CollectorVision has the time and resources to fix the issue, I’m happy to do that. 
 

 

To be fair, I have tried all the workarounds, including a device that is nearly identical to the one posted (albeit not the exact same brand) and none of them have worked.  I might try buying the specific one you posted just to rule it out once and for all, but as of now the only solution I have found is to use an HDMI scaler and then continue to disconnect and reconnect the power until it eventually works.  It often takes several tries before I get a properly centered video output.  I ended up buying a USB-powered HDMI scaler and attaching a USB cable with an inline power switch so that I can switch it on and off repeatedly without physically unplugging the cable, but this is still FAR from ideal. 

[Hastor]

1 hour ago, Sargon said:

I ended up buying a USB-powered HDMI scaler and attaching a USB cable with an inline power switch so that I can switch it on and off repeatedly without physically unplugging the cable, but this is still FAR from ideal. 

Just using a mechanically switches HDMI switcher should do it. Switch to the other then back. Disconnect and reconnecting the HDMI should always do it. I bought such a switch and was pleasantly surprised that I didn't even need to switch it for it to solve the issue, but identical ones in the same casing with different branding don't do it without switching. I posted that way earlier in the thread. Just something to kill the HDMI connection for a sec should do it regardless though.

 

[TPR]

11 minutes ago, Hastor said:

Just using a mechanically switches HDMI switcher should do it. Switch to the other then back. Disconnect and reconnecting the HDMI should always do it. I bought such a switch and was pleasantly surprised that I didn't even need to switch it for it to solve the issue, but identical ones in the same casing with different branding don't do it without switching. I posted that way earlier in the thread. Just something to kill the HDMI connection for a sec should do it regardless though.

 

Yep. This exactly. The item I posted above I just use as an “HDMI pass through” and it works just fine. 
 

The console works just fine on all my TVs but I need that pass through so my Elgato capture device can see the Phoenix. 
 

And I do have this same issue with other consoles as well, it’s not exclusive to the Phoenix. 

[+Sargon]

2 hours ago, Hastor said:

Just using a mechanically switches HDMI switcher should do it. Switch to the other then back. Disconnect and reconnecting the HDMI should always do it.

 

It doesn't though.  Maybe my issue is unique, but for me it can take several tries before I get the correct image on the screen.  One time, the graphics might be all garbled, the next time the picture is shifted up, the next time the picture is shifted down, etc.  There is no pattern that I can figure out.  Sometimes it works the first time and sometimes it might take 10 switches before I get a good one.

[+wongojack]

On 11/2/2019 at 12:11 PM, Bmack36 said:

Some TVs backfeed power to the system which keeps the system from powering all the way off. The best way to fix it is to use a HDMI switch inbetween the tv and Phoenix. Inserting some original games, like DK Jr., into the system when the power is off can actually power the system down and allow it to come back up. The other temporary option is to unplug the HDMI cable and put it back in.

 

On 1/18/2020 at 9:02 AM, Bmack36 said:

The compatibility isn't really a 720 vs 480 issue. As far as I know, The 2600 core works correctly on all of the tvs that have had issues with the cv core. The issue is the current cv core is set to use a pixel clock of 25MHz, which is technically out of spec. Changing the pixel clock to 27MHz should resolve this, but will take time to implement as it changes a lot of the timings with the rest of the core. The power feedback was a separate issue.

These are the two issues that I am tracking most closely with the Phoenix.  They are separate issues.  To my knowledge, they require different adapters (but I would like to be wrong about that).  I believe that the adapter posted most recently above in this thread (image copied below) addresses the "Pixel Clock" issue.  I THINK it gives your TV a composite image and does it with minimal lag.  @TPR is this how you use it?  Can you confirm if it works around BOTH the power backfeed issue AND the pixel clock issue?  What would be really nice is to find a single device that addresses backfeed, pixel clock, AND outputs to a working HDMI signal with minimal lag.  Does anyone reading this thread know if there is an adapter that does all of those things?

[TPR]

20 hours ago, wongojack said:

  @TPR is this how you use it?  Can you confirm if it works around BOTH the power backfeed issue AND the pixel clock issue? 

I cannot speak to those issues exactly. All I know is that without the box, my Elgato does not read the Phoenix, but with the box is does.  From what I have heard from others, it's the same reason why some TV's don't pick up the phoenix's signal.  Thankfully the item is from Amazon so it's a very easy and mostly painless return if it doesn't fix your issue. 

[+wongojack]

27 minutes ago, TPR said:

I cannot speak to those issues exactly. All I know is that without the box, my Elgato does not read the Phoenix, but with the box is does.  From what I have heard from others, it's the same reason why some TV's don't pick up the phoenix's signal.  Thankfully the item is from Amazon so it's a very easy and mostly painless return if it doesn't fix your issue. 

Do you use "HDMI out" on it or "Composite out?"

[TPR]

9 minutes ago, wongojack said:

Do you use "HDMI out" on it or "Composite out?"

HDMI - I literally just use it as a pass through.  HDMI in... HDMI out... and it works! 

[Captain Cozmos]

I have decided to try and learn Verilog, HDL or whatever code these things use.  There are more youtube video's on HDL than Z80

Will the Phoenix Cores, MisTER cores work on an ALINX XILINX FPGA HDMI I/O AV6150, the ALINX AX7350: Zynq-7000 SoC XC7Z035 FPGA, or the Digilent Genesys 2 Kintex-7?
I bought these back in 2019 when I was working on another project and I would like to create a work environment so I can merge the ADAM Core with the F18? code to come up with a working ADAM for the Phoenix.

I have yet to even open the boxes since I bought them off Amazon so I haven't toyed with them.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Captain Cozmos

[+evg2000]

5 hours ago, Captain Cozmos said:

I have decided to try and learn Verilog, HDL or whatever code these things use.  There are more youtube video's on HDL than Z80

Will the Phoenix Cores, MisTER cores work on an ALINX XILINX FPGA HDMI I/O AV6150, the ALINX AX7350: Zynq-7000 SoC XC7Z035 FPGA, or the Digilent Genesys 2 Kintex-7?
I bought these back in 2019 when I was working on another project and I would like to create a work environment so I can merge the ADAM Core with the F18? code to come up with a working ADAM for the Phoenix.

I have yet to even open the boxes since I bought them off Amazon so I haven't toyed with them.

That's awesome, good luck!

[Lil Alien]

On 11/26/2022 at 1:10 PM, TPR said:

 

I’m going to assume that the answer is the same as what JF posted above the last three times you have asked the same question this year. 
 

This is the piece of hardware I currently use to get it working on one of my TV’s. 
 

Please PM me your mailing address and I will buy one for you. If that will help make you stop asking the same question over and over only to get the same answer over and over until CollectorVision has the time and resources to fix the issue, I’m happy to do that. 
 

 

No need to purchase anything for me. I'm a big boy.

 

Many of these issues were pushed off and other things started. I was asked to post bugs years ago and did that a couple of times but unfortunately that didn't go anywhere.

 

I shouldn't need to purchase additional hardware. I do own an HDMI converter already, and it *mostly* worked, but i'd get some intermittent flicker issues that no other hardware has exhibited. So I currently enjoy the Phoenix in my bedroom just fine. I wasn't able to enjoy it on 2 Sony models, and it had occasional issues on my Samsung as well. I promote the Phoenix all the time, and am responsible for multiple additional sales.

 

I really do wish I could help further. I'd be willing to pitch in generously, as I've previously stated. I'd love to see the system reach its full potential.

 

I do understand your point, however. Sometimes I don't realize I asked something before, have some concentration problems. I'll be certain to be more mindful of that and continue to be patient.

 

Thank you for the advice.

[TPR]

29 minutes ago, Lil Alien said:

I shouldn't need to purchase additional hardware.

I understand you shouldn't need to.  But also understand that this isn't Apple or Sony or Samsung making a product where they have a gigantic customer service resource and practically limitless product development to instantly fix issues and release an update patch.

 

This is a homebrew item made by a bunch of hobbyists who did it in their spare time and didn't make money from it.  It was a passion project so that we all could continue to play our 1982 ColecoVision cartridges well into 2022.

 

Realistically, the Phoenix shouldn't exist.  The ColecoVision should have been dead and forgotten about 35ish years ago when it disappeared from retail store shelves forever.

 

But guys like JF, Toby, Brian, Matthew, etc, all made this a reality even if it does have its flaws. 

 

Will those issues get fixed?  Maybe.  Probably.  Hopefully?  But also maybe not. I do know that constantly asking about it won't get it fixed any quicker.  

 

And that's just the reality we face and some of you need to accept.

 

Again, I do understand your point and I do appreciate your response.  Honestly, I really do.  But I think you just need to accept the fact that the Phoenix is what it is, and until one of these guys has the time away from their families, their day jobs, or other projects, to spend time working on addressing an issue that affects a very small percentage of people, work that they most likely won't get paid for, so it will work better on one of your multiple TV's, when there is actually inexpensive known work-arounds or the option of a refund or selling your console if you're not totally happy with it.

 

 

I just want the complaining about the Phoenix to stop.  I cannot be the only person who thinks this way.

 

I don't have anything more to add. 

 

[+evg2000]

A few years ago I bought a Tivo system that didn't work on my TV, after fighting with support they reluctantly sent me a replacement.  It didn't work either, then I decided to try a different TV and it worked (should have listened to support, instead of thinking I know better  ).  So it's not just an issue with smaller companies like Collectorvision.  The question really is, should the manufactories of the TVs make them comply with standards, or should the creators of devices hooking up to TVs have to support all TVs?

[TPR]

3 hours ago, evg2000 said:

A few years ago I bought a Tivo system that didn't work on my TV, after fighting with support they reluctantly sent me a replacement.  It didn't work either, then I decided to try a different TV and it worked (should have listened to support, instead of thinking I know better  ).  So it's not just an issue with smaller companies like Collectorvision.  The question really is, should the manufactories of the TVs make them comply with standards, or should the creators of devices hooking up to TVs have to support all TVs?

It's a very fair and valid question, however I don't think some people will like my answer.  It goes back to my professional gaming days at Activision when I was producing PC games and working with the compatibility lab.  Just like with TVs today, there were just so many different combinations of PC hardware that no matter how much compatibility testing you did, no matter how many different patches you would release, you'd always find SOMEONE with an oddball issue that only one or two people out of hundreds of thousands would be affected by.  And it was the exact same question then as it is today.... "How much time and resource do we spend taking care of this .001% that have this issue, or is it less expensive for us to just refund the money for the handful of games / consoles for those people having that problem?"

 

And in the case of the Phoenix, I do believe there are workarounds for everyone that is having those issues, it just seems people are being stubborn about it, possibly on purpose, and want CollectorVision to fix things to prove their point out of spite. 

 

That's why I told that one guy above "Just let me buy you this thirty dollar box to end your struggle and stop the constant questioning" because that's a better solution, at least in my "professional" opinion, than taking up development time and resources to fix something that such a small percentage of people that have an issue with, when that development time could be dedicated to creating something that 100% of all of us could benefit from.

 

I'm sure CollectorVision see it the same way... "Do we create a new SNES game that everyone can play or do we fix this minor Phoenix issue that a handful of people are having, and that we have offered refunds to those people if they choose to take us up on that offer."  Personally, I think CollectorVision is making the right choice.  Unless those are issues that could be fixed with a very little time or cost investment, I would rather those issues not get fixed and instead focus on something that everyone else could benefit from.

 

CollectorVision may eventually get those issues resolved, someday... but it's not a priority and I don't blame them one bit for not making it a priority. I would have done the same thing in my professional gaming days. 

[1980gamer]

9 hours ago, evg2000 said:

A few years ago I bought a Tivo system that didn't work on my TV, after fighting with support they reluctantly sent me a replacement.  It didn't work either, then I decided to try a different TV and it worked (should have listened to support, instead of thinking I know better  ).  So it's not just an issue with smaller companies like Collectorvision.  The question really is, should the manufactories of the TVs make them comply with standards, or should the creators of devices hooking up to TVs have to support all TVs?

I had the same problem with my Tivo Bolt on a Vizio TV.  It would not read the HDMI input from time to time.  Switching to a different input and then back fixed it.

I did not have a Phoenix issue on this tv.  Go figure.

 

I need to test my Phoenix on my new free sync LG tv.  Though I will not typically use this tv to play.  I am just curious.

[Captain Cozmos]

Too whom it may concern.
I need the schematics to the Phoenix which I do not see on the open source github page.
That goes for how this HDMI deal is hooked up.  The version, how it's implemented, licensed version or some homebrew hodge podge.

I need this info so I can put the source through the vivado simulator and other tools that I have.  Maybe I can find where the bugs are.
At present I am using a development board that has VGA, HDMI and a video port with all the other bells and whistles.

My purpose is two fold, get Colecovision working to maximum capacity then incorporate ADAM but I am not going to use Colem for the source.

From what I am gathering, I can not be sure is that the ADAM should work.  No one from the ADAM MisTer core has gotten back with me with the minimum specs. and I do not know if the Phoenix even has the ability.

This is not a criticism of the Phoenix but fact.  According to github the FPGA on the Phoenix is good enough for what it does and I do not know it's extended capabilities so lets hope it all works out.

If I can pull this off then I may be able to work on other cores.

Dino Eggs development is on hold until 2023 until I can reach an equitable agreement with the author and a distributor.