VectorGamer Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 I say potentially cuz this is in progress but I'm not liking where this is potentially heading. Buyer asked that I send the package with signature confirmation which I did. USPS tracking #9502112458689309356774 status is delivered. Buyer claims USPS delivered package without signature confirmation. Sent me this message the other day: Quote Hi The game was delivered to my courier company but seems that no signature confirmation option was added. The tracking history not show any signature information. Do you really added it? Hope the Next week the game could be shipped to my country without any problems. I took a picture of receipt to prove that I paid for signature confirmation and sent it to him. I received this message yesterday: Quote Hi, Thanks for your response. Yes, seems that USPS made a mistake and not sign the package on the delivery. USPS tracking bring me the option to send to my email a proof of delivery with the signature, but in the PDF document i download not appears any signature. Only a text that saids that "There is no delivery signature on file for this item". I attach an image of that document. Hope the game was delivered in the correct address and my couriercan ship it correctly to my country. Should I take the stance that USPS tracking says that the package was delivered and anything that happens after that point is YOUR problem? I did everything the buyer asked me to do. If the buyer doesn't get his package I don't want him opening a Paypal claim asking for a refund - it wouldn't seem right. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/298447-buyer-potentially-scamming-me/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 I am not sure paypal would side with him anyway as the package was marked as "delivered". He would have to contact the post office, file a police report for the missing package, submit those along with forms to paypal...it is a PITA. He probably will not bother. From the buyers email he appears he is out of country and you shipped it to one of those re-routing stations or whatever they are called. I can't tell you how many problems I have had with these. I would just tell the buyer that you are showing the item delivered to that address and he will have to investigate it further. On a side note, you can file for a refund claim with USPS for the signature confirmation that they did not provide: https://www.usps.com/help/refunds.htm#extra 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/298447-buyer-potentially-scamming-me/#findComment-4390069 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennybrooks Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 As it shows delivered, I believe you are safe as long as the address shipped to was the PayPal address. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/298447-buyer-potentially-scamming-me/#findComment-4390071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+stupus Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Was this an ebay sale? Did you use the global shipping program? If so your only obligation is to have it safely arrive at the domestic shipping center with tracking showing delivered. If its lost after that then ebay should refund him out of their pocket. If its just a direct paypal purchase you just need to show tracking that it was delivered to the buyers address on file with paypal. Unless the item cost over $250 shipped. Then you are required to show it was signed for on delivery. Without that the tracking showing delivered will not matter. Never sell things over $250 shipped without signature confirmation. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/298447-buyer-potentially-scamming-me/#findComment-4390203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted November 12, 2019 Author Share Posted November 12, 2019 37 minutes ago, stupus said: Was this an ebay sale? Did you use the global shipping program? It was eBay and it wasn't shipped to the global shipping place. The buyer kept referring to it as his "courier." Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/298447-buyer-potentially-scamming-me/#findComment-4390231 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+stupus Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Then your only safe if this address you shipped to was listed as his paypal ship too address. If that is different i would say you were scammed. Also if the purchase is over $250 shipped you are not covered by paypal seller protection without the signature confirmation showing signed and delivered. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/298447-buyer-potentially-scamming-me/#findComment-4390238 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted November 12, 2019 Author Share Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) 44 minutes ago, stupus said: Then your only safe if this address you shipped to was listed as his paypal ship too address. If that is different i would say you were scammed. Also if the purchase is over $250 shipped you are not covered by paypal seller protection without the signature confirmation showing signed and delivered. The address I used was what was reported by eBay as the buyer's address. Looking at the tracking info the package was delivered to zip code 33172. Paypal and eBay lists his zip code as 33192? Edited November 12, 2019 by VectorGamer Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/298447-buyer-potentially-scamming-me/#findComment-4390270 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 56 minutes ago, VectorGamer said: It was eBay and it wasn't shipped to the global shipping place. The buyer kept referring to it as his "courier." Smells scammy to me. I would stick to the facts, you've done everything you were supposed to do. If he needs to track down the package, that's on him. If he files a complaint with Ebay, you'll provide your info and they'll most reasonably side with you. If he is allowed to leave you negative feedback you can probably get it removed. You should block this seller so you don't run into him again. I use the Global Shipping program for everything, it closes up bullshit loopholes like this. He should also use the same physical address for ebay and paypal, anything else is suspect. They're both in Miami, maybe he made an error in typing in the address. If the package comes back to you undelivered, he can pay again to have it shipped to the right address. It's quite possible if he waits a day he will find the package and everything is OK. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/298447-buyer-potentially-scamming-me/#findComment-4390273 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted November 12, 2019 Author Share Posted November 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, Flojomojo said: Smells scammy to me. I would stick to the facts, you've done everything you were supposed to do. If he needs to track down the package, that's on him. If he files a complaint with Ebay, you'll provide your info and they'll most reasonably side with you. If he is allowed to leave you negative feedback you can probably get it removed. You should block this seller so you don't run into him again. I use the Global Shipping program for everything, it closes up bullshit loopholes like this. He should also use the same physical address for ebay and paypal, anything else is suspect. They're both in Miami, maybe he made an error in typing in the address. If the package comes back to you undelivered, he can pay again to have it shipped to the right address. It's quite possible if he waits a day he will find the package and everything is OK. Just looked at his profile. He's located in Peru. I use the Global Shipping option too, but how does that prevent this from happening? The buyer used an American shipping address after all. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/298447-buyer-potentially-scamming-me/#findComment-4390278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted November 12, 2019 Author Share Posted November 12, 2019 Just blocked him for future auctions. He doesn't have any negative feedback in the past year though. Luckily what I sold him wasn't that pricey. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/298447-buyer-potentially-scamming-me/#findComment-4390282 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted November 12, 2019 Author Share Posted November 12, 2019 19 minutes ago, VectorGamer said: The address I used was what was reported by eBay as the buyer's address. Looking at the tracking info the package was delivered to zip code 33172. Paypal and eBay lists his zip code as 33192? Just looked at my post office receipt which lists the zip code as 33192. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/298447-buyer-potentially-scamming-me/#findComment-4390285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Is the address information on the package hand written? I've had plenty of items get delivered to another house in my neighborhood because of the senders handwriting not being too clear and the postman easily getting confused. I use the paypal shipping to handle this stuff since I can print a prepaid USPS label with barcodes..etc to tape to the package and hand deliver to the PO clerks to get my receipt in hand. So it could be correct on the receipt but the local PO might have confused the 9 for a 7 for some odd reason. Still, if you paid for signature required, then the status should show that a signature was provided or that delivery wasn't possible. That is what I've seen when I put signature requirement on my sent items. Just took a look and if you expand the product details section it does show Signature Confirmation was paid for on this package. So I would go through the Proof of Delivery section and fill that out to see if they can provide you with the details of the signature that should have been given at time of delivery. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/298447-buyer-potentially-scamming-me/#findComment-4390305 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted November 12, 2019 Author Share Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said: Just took a look and if you expand the product details section it does show Signature Confirmation was paid for on this package. So I would go through the Proof of Delivery section and fill that out to see if they can provide you with the details of the signature that should have been given at time of delivery. Just did that and says there's no signature on file for the item. In the end, I feel I shouldn't be on the hook for this. Edited November 12, 2019 by VectorGamer Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/298447-buyer-potentially-scamming-me/#findComment-4390325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Then USPS didn't do their job or rather the postal carrier delivering it didn't do his job. If a package requires a signature and there isn't anyone available to sign for it, then they are required to leave a notice stating this and take the package back to their distro center. In my case, when a package requires a signature, I get the notice and have to physically pick up the package from the main distro center the next day to sign for it in front of the postal clerk at the counter. Pain in the butt sometimes, but it is the only way to provide that little extra security. I always put sig required on stuff I have to send to Apt addresses and might even start doing it on some P.O. Box addresses as well. 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/298447-buyer-potentially-scamming-me/#findComment-4390332 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 The USPS makes mistakes sometimes, but I don't think you the seller should eat it when stuff isn't delivered properly. How long has this situation been cooking? It could resolve on its own. Maybe it's still on the truck. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/298447-buyer-potentially-scamming-me/#findComment-4390393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+stupus Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 The signature wont matter if you didnt send it to his confirmed paypal address. You might be ok thru an ebay dispute, but if he files a paypal dispute you will lose. Paypals rules are more clear. You must be able to provide tracking showing it delivered to his paypal address. Over $250 shipped must show signature with delivered tracking to confirmed address. Its a common scam to buy stuff and have it shipped other places and then do charge backs thru paypal. Ebay lets you choose any address for delivery. Paypal makes you ship to the paypal accounts registered address for seller protection. Its bullshit imo. The global shipping program protects you to the point that it just needs to get to the domestic shipping center to cover you. After that delivery and damage are on ebay. But it generally costs the buyers alot more so you lose out on potential sales. Thanks ebay. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/298447-buyer-potentially-scamming-me/#findComment-4390511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxman Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Global shipping program will not apply in the case of buyers who have their confirmed paypal address as a freight forwarding company. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/298447-buyer-potentially-scamming-me/#findComment-4390669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightbit Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 (edited) Always purchase the shipping label *through* paypal. This way the address is captured on the label exactly the way it is on the paypal payment page. The zipcode difference alone may be enough for him to file a dispute and win unfortunately. Edited November 13, 2019 by eightbit 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/298447-buyer-potentially-scamming-me/#findComment-4390710 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted November 13, 2019 Author Share Posted November 13, 2019 His Paypal address and the address in eBay matched. I got a message from the buyer this morning saying that his courier received the package. I blocked the buyer from future auctions so I don't have to deal with this again. I will add signature confirmation for anything over $250. 3 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/298447-buyer-potentially-scamming-me/#findComment-4390737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+stupus Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Great news! 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/298447-buyer-potentially-scamming-me/#findComment-4390769 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Starwander Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 On 11/12/2019 at 12:43 PM, stupus said: Was this an ebay sale? Did you use the global shipping program? If so your only obligation is to have it safely arrive at the domestic shipping center with tracking showing delivered. If its lost after that then ebay should refund him out of their pocket. If its just a direct paypal purchase you just need to show tracking that it was delivered to the buyers address on file with paypal. Unless the item cost over $250 shipped. Then you are required to show it was signed for on delivery. Without that the tracking showing delivered will not matter. Never sell things over $250 shipped without signature confirmation. This a million times, scammers know this dollar limit very well and use it aggressively against sellers. 21 hours ago, stupus said: The signature wont matter if you didnt send it to his confirmed paypal address. You might be ok thru an ebay dispute, but if he files a paypal dispute you will lose. Paypals rules are more clear. You must be able to provide tracking showing it delivered to his paypal address. Over $250 shipped must show signature with delivered tracking to confirmed address. Its a common scam to buy stuff and have it shipped other places and then do charge backs thru paypal. Ebay lets you choose any address for delivery. Paypal makes you ship to the paypal accounts registered address for seller protection. Its bullshit imo. The global shipping program protects you to the point that it just needs to get to the domestic shipping center to cover you. After that delivery and damage are on ebay. But it generally costs the buyers alot more so you lose out on potential sales. Thanks ebay. This is also sage advice. If not shipped to the Pay-Pal address then its basically a loss if the marked not delivered. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/298447-buyer-potentially-scamming-me/#findComment-4391292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Good news that was sorted out. About your Peruvian trickster of sorts, I've bumped into this in increasing numbers over the last 2-3 years now. Once that GSP got in there people were pissed at the disgusting high fees ebay would slap on packages using it as they at ebay didn't even handle it entirely above board for accuracy. They would collect a fee for them to re-process and ship on from them, but they also would collect more cash in that to cover supposedly import fees/taxes, yet time and again I'd see people online saying I did GSP, then had to pay the post office XXX to get it released and they were furious as ebay wouldn't refund. So after a bit I started seeing these dumb couriers show up, at first you'd see what looked like a standard mail address but it would have a few letters/numbers tacked onto the NAME line typically. Foreigners would basically uses these US based drop shipping couriers to evade the GSP abusiveness because you would be only shipping in the US and that company would move it on. I asked ebay and paypal about it awhile back and the response was clear over both. If the ebay/paypal address are the same you're safe. Also because they only care about where it originally arrives, if the courier gets the package and it shows delivered or signed+delivered you're done with them. At that rate you sent it to who was getting it and they approved, so if the buyer comes back whining about damages, losses, or the rest, they have no case because the courier got it as promised so they lose their rights because they chose not to follow the GSP program. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/298447-buyer-potentially-scamming-me/#findComment-4391362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted November 14, 2019 Author Share Posted November 14, 2019 11 hours ago, Tanooki said: If the ebay/paypal address are the same you're safe. So what you're telling me now with every sale that I have to check the address in Paypal versus what eBay is telling me? Swell. Then what do I do if they're different? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/298447-buyer-potentially-scamming-me/#findComment-4391605 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Well if the ebay and paypal address don't agree, someone said it yesterday. You may be fine on ebay, but they can whine like a baby to paypal since they're the true money handlers and screw you on the back end. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/298447-buyer-potentially-scamming-me/#findComment-4391634 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+stupus Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 If they dont match i would cancel the sale. Not worth the potential troubles. This is why many sellers have started putting in the description that they will only ship to the confirmed address with paypal. I would add this wording to all your listings and mention you will cancel the sale otherwise. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/298447-buyer-potentially-scamming-me/#findComment-4391647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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