Unicorns season: Prince of Persia for the A8!

[Thomas Jentzsch]

3 minutes ago, zbyti said:

You are wrong, he offer other old games but not PoP.

If so, why are we discussing in the PoP thread?

[+splendidnut]

All started with this post:

 

[zbyti]

@splendidnut yep

Edited November 19, 2022 by zbyti

[Thomas Jentzsch]

OK, the PoP game is not put onto the cart. How about the artwork?

 

[+CharlieChaplin]

1 hour ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

As far as I can understand, a Flash cart with the option to put the PoP game and its artwork on it.

Which would be theft and support of theft in my book. Reminds me at a certain person how also only offers a "service".

 

That's why I asked if rensoup had an agreement with JM and Ubisoft to port POP to the A8.

(Ubisoft owns the POP videogame franchise)  If not, we are all thieves. 

 

[zbyti]

5 minutes ago, CharlieChaplin said:

we are all thieves. 

very happy thieves  this port is excellent! 

Edited November 19, 2022 by zbyti

[Thomas Jentzsch]

3 minutes ago, CharlieChaplin said:

That's why I asked if rensoup had an agreement with JM and Ubisoft to port POP to the A8.

(Ubisoft owns the POP videogame franchise)  If not, we are all thieves. 

Porting something without agreement is no theft, making profit from it is.

 

And for me personally there would be a clear (non legal) difference between stealing from a community member and from a big company. If you steal from the community, you are no longer part of it.

[zbyti]

Just now, Thomas Jentzsch said:

And for me personally there would be a clear (non legal) difference between stealing from a community member and from a big company. If you steal from the community, you are no longer part of it.

but this is still not this case  

[Thomas Jentzsch]

9 minutes ago, zbyti said:

but this is still not this case  

So, what exactly is the case here?

[zbyti]

for god mercy...

 

@rensoup made the assumption that @nowy80 YT clip and PoP cartridges (seen on it) are made to encourage people to place orders for such cartridges, after @nowy80 statement (that he has no intention of doing so) @rensoup did not give up.

 

whole story...

[ivop]

1 hour ago, Albert said:

regardless of the fact that the code for this 8-bit version is completely new (I'm assuming) and the game was written from the ground up?

This is what Rensoup said about it himself:

On 11/26/2019 at 7:30 PM, rensoup said:

-This port is based on the BBC Master port by Bitshifters https://bitshifters.github.io/posts/prods/bs-pop-beeb.html (Props to them!)

-Based on the original Apple2 code by Jordan Mechner https://github.com/jmechner/Prince-of-Persia-Apple-II (Props to him!).

But along the way he coded a LOT of new code himself to make it all work the way it does. People did new graphics, new music, et cetera.

 

[Albert]

Just now, ivop said:

This is what Rensoup said about it himself:

But along the way he coded a LOT of new code himself to make it all work the way it does. People did new graphics, new music, et cetera.

Thank you, much appreciated.

 

 ..Al

[invisible kid]

Rensoupp should have just kept it private and teased us with videos. I understand why people lose motivation in this community.

[rensoup]

17 hours ago, nowy80 said:

Could you justify your subsequent invectives? What do you think I stole from you? I'm just asking for arguments, not invectives like so far. If you insult me again, I will not post in this thread again. Just note that I didn't write any emotional sentence directly about you. 

 

I don't understand what you're complaining about, I did you a favour by promoting your business which you said worked brilliantly the first time.

 

I'm just honestly and respectfully trying to help an irrational scumbag legally earn free money, what's wrong with that ?

 

So ungrateful!
 

[ivop]

Here's a quote from Jordan Mechner from his github repo where he released his Apple II code:

Quote

We extracted and posted the 6502 code because it was a piece of computer history that could be of interest to others, and because if we hadn't, it might have been lost for all time. We did this for fun, not profit. As the author and copyright holder of this source code, I personally have no problem with anyone studying it, modifying it, attempting to run it, etc. Please understand that this does NOT constitute a grant of rights of any kind in Prince of Persia, which is an ongoing Ubisoft game franchise. Ubisoft alone has the right to make and distribute Prince of Persia games.

Emphasis is mine. I assume attempting to run it equals porting to the BBC and porting to the Atari 8-bit. Digital, non-profit distribution is apparently allowed (see BBC port, which you can even play online, which I just did ), but Ubisoft is the only entity that has the right to make money off of it. Not nowy80.

[invisible kid]

Definitely don't release the source code if you haven't already.

Edited November 19, 2022 by invisible kid

[rensoup]

2 hours ago, zbyti said:

no one sold a PoP cartridge here.

 

I'm not on anyone's side, both are breaking the law only one way seems to be acceptable and the other way is not.

Damn, you're a douche...

 

 

[zbyti]

3 minutes ago, rensoup said:

Damn, you're a douche...

 

maybe I wouldn't try to compete with you in coding but we can try for insults, whoever gets banned first wins, ok?  

[zbyti]

7 minutes ago, ivop said:

Here's a quote from Jordan Mechner from his github repo where he released his Apple II code:

Emphasis is mine. I assume attempting to run it equals porting to the BBC and porting to the Atari 8-bit. Digital, non-profit distribution is apparently allowed (see BBC port, which you can even play online, which I just did ), but Ubisoft is the only entity that has the right to make money off of it. Not nowy80.

"Ubisoft alone has the right to make and distribute Prince of Persia games."

 

where do you see anything about money here? they can make a PoP and distribute game for free.

[ivop]

5 minutes ago, zbyti said:

"Ubisoft alone has the right to make and distribute Prince of Persia games."

 

where do you see anything about money here? they can make a PoP and distribute game for free.

For free. Based on the Apple II code Mechner released. That's what Rensoup did. That's not what nowy80 is doing. The so-called "empty" cart with just a label and a box plus manual (?) is a farce. I bet he sells them all preflashed. I wonder who those people are, though. Paying 65 dollars for a free download with some printwork. Why?

[zbyti]

@ivop 

I guess I understand the right to make a game and distribute it differently then you.

PoP for Atari was made and has distributions, none of us compiled the game ourselves.

[zbyti]

I'm just asking for an end this stupid arguments.

 

If @nowy80 has a poor idea for earning the money then don't help him by buying from him.

Edited November 20, 2022 by zbyti

[rensoup]

1 hour ago, CharlieChaplin said:

 

That's why I asked if rensoup had an agreement with JM and Ubisoft to port POP to the A8.

(Ubisoft owns the POP videogame franchise)  If not, we are all thieves. 

 

Some things are acceptable, others aren't, see JM's twitter's comment. That's not approval but he certainly didn't sound pissed off. Not sure he'd feel the same if someone tweeted him a link to "blank" PoP carts sold on ebay.

 

1 hour ago, zbyti said:

for god mercy...

 

@rensoup made the assumption that @nowy80 YT clip and PoP cartridges (seen on it) are made to encourage people to place orders for such cartridges, after @nowy80 statement (that he has no intention of doing so) @rensoup did not give up.

 

whole story...

Bunch of lies... There's no point being rational with that kind of crap but I'll just give some context to @Albert

 

That clown printed Superrune's original PoP pic for the A8 on a label, stuck it on a cart and pretended to sell those blank carts in VHS boxes with some old PoP artwork.

 

He posted a link to some bullshit video compare of the C64 vs A8 versions. Clearly appearing very familiar with the subject by mentioning the C64 version was released in 1990 🙄

Links in the description video pointed to "empty" PoP blank carts for sale.

 

1 hour ago, ivop said:

But along the way he coded a LOT of new code himself to make it all work the way it does. People did new graphics, new music, et cetera.

Like I mentioned before I mainly started from the BBC version because it was buildable without any fuss unlike the A2 version.

 

I also wrongly assumed that the screen format being similar to the BBC would also make it easier. In reality, it's exactly the same except for a single instruction to convert from A2 to BBC/A8.

That's just to say again that there's probably no code left from the BBC, except perhaps for some potential improvements that Kieran may have made, I don't know if there are any though.

 

TIX, redrew all the animations and will probably hate me foverer for that. Miker, Vinscool, Emkay did the music and sound effects and Superrune did the great intro picture. So there's a lot of stuff that was recreated just for this version which made it stand out.

 

Then there's code from several other A8 members here: Dmsc, xxl, elmer  for sound/ disk / compression.

 

35 minutes ago, invisible kid said:

Definitely don't release the source code if you haven't already.

Well, that's one reason why I didn't.

Edited November 20, 2022 by rensoup

[ivop]

1 minute ago, zbyti said:

@ivop 

I guess I understand the right to make a game and distribute it differently then you.

PoP for Atari was made and has distributions, none of us compiled the game ourselves.

Well, I agree with you that it seems a bit of a gray area.

 

"Ubisoft alone has the right to make and distribute Prince of Persia games."

 

This is what Jordan Mechner said. But that does not match with what he did, because he distributed a Prince of Persia game on github  

 

What I said before is my opinion and interpretation of what has happened ever since he released his code on github.

Assembling and modifying and running the 6502 code is OK. BBC port is OK. Playing it with browser based emulator is OK. Atari 8-bit Port is OK. Making money off of it, not OK.

 

[Albert]

1 minute ago, ivop said:

The so-called "empty" cart with just a label and a box plus manual (?) is a farce. I bet he sells them all preflashed. I wonder who those people are, though. Paying 65 dollars for a free download with some printwork. Why?

I agree, this is very sketchy, and I've seen many sellers on eBay and Etsy do this same gambit over the years.  Lots of sellers who are happy to sell you carts of anything you'd like, some will even send you a list of all the games they can build.  Some offer it as a "service", trying to skirt around the fact that they are, indeed, selling you pirated carts. The fact that he offers, IN THE AUCTION, to program the cart as along as you "own" the game, is just a cover, in my opinion.  Otherwise, who the hell is going to pay $65 for a cart with a label and nothing on it?  That's obscene, even for a flash cart, when you're not getting anything else with it (manual, box, box insert). 

 

I do not have problems with reproductions of older games, especially rarer games, as long as it's clear you're not selling an original copy of a game.  But I do have a big problem when this is done with games produced by members of the community and no permission was given.  Given what @rensoup has written in the post above, that gives some evidence that this guy is not above board in what he's saying.

 

 ..Al