Unicorns season: Prince of Persia for the A8!

[zbyti]

14 minutes ago, invisible kid said:

Maybe you guys can move on to ripping off kids in children's hospitals or something. Then argue how it's 100% legal.

yes, yes... angry mob knows better 😘 

[+Stephen]

50 minutes ago, zbyti said:

yes, yes... angry mob knows better 😘 

Says the troll who keeps fanning the flames after throwing gas on the fire they claiming "no I didn't - I am just breathing, you can't really prove anything".

[zbyti]

18 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Says the troll who keeps fanning the flames after throwing gas on the fire they claiming "no I didn't - I am just breathing, you can't really prove anything".

you implied that something is proven, when asked for proof you didn't write anything.

 

you made the assumption that I was with the nowy80 in cahoots but its not true.

 

you wrote if you had a cart form nowy80, I wouldn't believe he was selling PoP either

 

what else would you suggest?

 

---

 

I proved that someone who is firmly convinced that there was an auction can see business cards in the stickers.

 

I wish best for rensoup and I hope he finally see my point.

Edited November 24, 2022 by zbyti

[zbyti]

On 11/20/2022 at 1:13 AM, Albert said:

I do not have problems with reproductions of older games, especially rarer games, as long as it's clear you're not selling an original copy of a game.  But I do have a big problem when this is done with games produced by members of the community and no permission was given.  Given what @rensoup has written in the post above, that gives some evidence that this guy is not above board in what he's saying.

 

 ..Al

emphasis is mine.

 

I share this point of view.

Edited November 24, 2022 by zbyti

[zbyti]

On 11/18/2022 at 12:41 PM, slx said:

I am afraid people offering "services" like yours will eventually deprive the community of some new games or conversions that might have come about otherwise as programmers who put a lot of love and dedication in a work they give to the community for free might think twice about their altruism if they see others making a quick buck on it. Even if you thread on the safe side of copyright law and your business is entirely legal (or at least tolerated or more likely ignored by the copyright holders of PoP), not everything that is legal is decent as well to do and you might have averted much criticism had you asked the @rensoup for his opinion on this operation before proceeding with it. This would have been decent as you'd have less business without his effort.

 

We certainly have no right to ask you to go about your business in a decent way but don't expect to be treated decently if you don't.

and I like this post very much!

[+CyranoJ]

I once got asked if I minded if someone could make carts of my games and then sell them.

I said that yes, I did in fact, mind.

They did it anyway.

And then started a hate campaign against me.

I got their ebay store taken down.

They persisted in the abuse.

 

All it does is chip away a little bit at the willingness to give time and effort for free.

 

Scumbags gonna scum.

Worse than that are the ultra-scumbags supporting scumbags.

 

Dick moves all round guys, well done. Would not blame @rensoup one bit if he never releases anything again for free.

(btw, the PoP port is absolutely amazing, just wanted to say that)

[zbyti]

3 hours ago, CyranoJ said:

Scumbags gonna scum.

Worse than that are the ultra-scumbags supporting scumbags.

 

Dick moves all round guys, well done. Would not blame @rensoup one bit if he never releases anything again for free.

(btw, the PoP port is absolutely amazing, just wanted to say that)

who made you a moderator?! you obviously have a problem with keeping your nerves in cool.

[zbyti]

ok, I've decided, I'm leaving  this forum.

 

People don't care about the facts, they are satisfied with what they think.

 

Instead of arguments, it is enough for them that they know better and use offensive words towards others.

 

@Stephen I'm doing you a favor, you won't have to write anymore that I'm a troll and speculate about me because I won't write anything else on this forum.

 

have fun together.

[+CyranoJ]

1 hour ago, zbyti said:

who made you a moderator?! you obviously have a problem with keeping your nerves in cool.

 

Your mum.  She said she was sick of cleaning up your shit and someone else should do it.

 

BTW, I'm not a moderator of this forum. You didn't jump to a conclusion, did you?

[+x=usr(1536)]

Under modern Scottish law (and established for about three centuries prior), it is possible for a jury to render one of three verdicts: guilty, not guilty, and not proven.

 

The concept of a 'not proven' verdict is a fascinating one.  It indicates that guilt cannot be determined based on the facts and evidence presented - but also that the facts and evidence in and of themselves do not sufficiently add up to demonstrate an absence of guilt.  While 'not guilty' and 'not proven' may be viewed today as being legally-equivalent to acquittal, there are definite subtleties to the two verdicts that can significantly change the ways in which they are perceived.

 

While this forum may not be a Scottish court, this is an instance in which that bit of jurisprudence seems relevant.

[+ZuluGula]

In United States of America we have "innocent until proven guilty", and it's the job of accuser to prove that someone is guilty, not the other way around. 

[+x=usr(1536)]

12 minutes ago, ZuluGula said:

In United States of America we have "innocent until proven guilty", and it's the job of accuser to prove that someone is guilty, not the other way around. 

We also have the ability to hold and state an opinion.  You, much like anyone else, are welcome to agree or disagree with them as you may see fit.  The system works!

 

P.S.: both "innocent until proven guilty" and opinions exist outside of the US.  TMYK!

[Thomas Jentzsch]

23 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said:

P.S.: both "innocent until proven guilty" and opinions exist outside of the US.  TMYK!

Correct, that's the very old (Greece, Rome) principle In dubio pro reo.

 

Which in Germany leads to an "Acquittal for lack of evidence" which people frequently call "second-class acquittal".

[+x=usr(1536)]

18 minutes ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

Which in Germany leads to an "Acquittal for lack of evidence" which people frequently call "second-class acquittal".

Nearest equivalent under US law (and I'm not a lawyer, so would welcome a correction from an actual one if necessary) would be dismissal of the case, also for lack of evidence.  If the dismissal is with prejudice, the plaintiff cannot re-file the same claim again in that court.

 

It doesn't usually carry quite the same perception as its German or Scottish equivalents, but is functionally-equivalent.

[zbyti]

you have such a designation and it makes no difference which forum you are a moderator since you behave like a simpleton

 

as I said, good bye  

[+CyranoJ]

20 minutes ago, zbyti said:

as I said, good bye  

Why are you still here. Lied about leaving?

[Mclaneinc]

This old thread keeps rumbling on...

 

I have no issues with someone distributing games with a charge for the media used and maybe a couple of dollars for time and energy, but only as long as permission where possible is given, that last bit is very important. The notion of selling on copies of a game being sold by the author already or simply not wanting this to be done is the be all and end all. Selling the games as a business when you have no claim to the game is just not on, why should you make 20 - 30 dollars on the back of someones work..

 

The thing with the blank media claim yet it's printed with a games cart cover is dodgy, even more so if the cart is sold as blank media but actually contains the game, you can claim it's being sold as blank media all day long, but while it has the game and associated artwork on the cart it simply isn't blank. Adding a chunk of cash "for your effort in making it" is also BS imho.If you want to make blank carts with artwork then do but charge for the media and a small cost for printing etc, but make sure it IS blank AND ask the author if they mind, if they do then stop.

 

Things like The Pool disks are way to do it, PD only, permission asked and a small ontop charge for the creation and compilation etc, I happily brought both disks, also take Aarons disks, no money exchanged hands, I sent Aaron game and magazine donations in return. Where they ethically right to be done, I can't answer that as I do not know the full law on it, but I seem to remember chatting to Aaron about stuff people didn't want on them and he removed it. I've like others, shared my digital collection, not cost at alland anything I'd brought and wasn't freely downloadable in a legal manner was taken off (as far as I could make sure). There's numerous well known legal sites where stuff like this can be had, so I find the notion of people desperate to make a small living out of it just wrong, if you have no agreements with said authors then it's just not good..

Edited November 24, 2022 by Mclaneinc

[+mytek]

Against my better judgement I keep coming back and reading the new posts in this topic. I guess it all comes down to two things, One guy accuses another of making copies of the cart code that he released on this public forum, with the accused presumably doing so and making money off of it without his permission.

 

I'm not even going to get into any of that. But here's my story of how I do things in this regard.

 

I also put a lot of time and $$$ into creating my Atari hardware designs. In some cases such as the alternative motherboard projects it can be as much as $2,000-3,000 of personal cost, and many months of development time. I never expect to get reimbursed for any of that, and gladly release what I've done into the public domain for all to enjoy. Once released I place no restrictions upon anyone that decides to use my designs, other than it would be nice to have them acknowledge the original source (however this isn't mandatory). I also don't require them to seek out my permission to sell and make money off of what I developed -- anyone is free to do so.

 

Now granted this is how I do things, and I would never presume or pressure anyone else to do the same. But in the retro world I am not unique in taking this approach, because after all this is first and foremost a hobby, and not something that anyone is going to get rich off of. Once again speaking only for my self, I do this for fun and to gain knowledge, as well as to share with others what I have created, which is reward enough in itself. And even more important, I feel that I am giving back to the ones that came before me, and were kind enough to share what they had done. So much of what I do is because of the shared knowledge of others.

 

Bottom line not everyone has the ability to copy what I've done in a DIY manner, so I greatly appreciate that others produce and sell to the ones that can't. And I know from personal experience that being a seller isn't easy and involves considerable overhead to run a business, both in personal time and money. So if they can eek out a profit after all is said and done they deserve it for the service they provide.

 

End of story.

 

[rensoup]

On 8/16/2021 at 2:26 PM, zbyti said:

I think it will be weak blackmail  But one more post not related to PoP and I am leaving this forum

 

On 11/21/2022 at 12:43 AM, zbyti said:

I'm off.

 

14 hours ago, zbyti said:

ok, I've decided, I'm leaving  this forum.

 

TO BE CONTINUED...

 

(100% guaranteed)

[rensoup]

11 hours ago, ZuluGula said:

In United States of America we have "innocent until proven guilty", and it's the job of accuser to prove that someone is guilty, not the other way around. 

I don't have the inclination to go US entrapment style and contact him, pay him money for a game that I worked on, wait for a week for it to arrive and post a picture.

 

He "delated" the game wanting no association with yet he's keeping the video online.

 

As he reminded us he posted a rapidus video with a link to his store:

 

At the time, I replied that he could really show off the power of rapidus by disabling the frame limiter in the PoP menu which he never followed up on.

 

Retrospectively, I understand that he didn't really give a shit and was just promoting his store.

 

I just looked at his short posting history too and a good chunk of it is dedicated to that same purpose.

 

So much bullshit while all I wanted was that post (which I reported twice) to be taken down. It's still up. Such are my superpowers...

[+slx]

@rensoupwhile all this is quite disappointing, I'll make a weak attempt at turning the direction of this post and thank you for your efforts in porting PoP! I haven't had a chance to play it much but what I saw so far is amazing. You're truly one of the league of super-programmers that put stuff on the Atari that we dreamt of having but sorely missed in the 1980s and while it may seem pointless to port them at a time when anyone can play almost anything ever released on any machine in the 1980s on a Raspberry Pi, etc., it is somehow very satisfying to see that those ports were not missing due to insufficient hardware. 

[Mclaneinc]

As a follow-up attempt to bring this back to the POP, still not played it properly, but what I did play was a tribute to hard work and dedication all around. It's like one of those expensive deserts with all the really fancy trimmings that taste almost like you being a tad naughty by eating it.

 

Thank you Rensoup and all the hard work by the crew, the graphics get a special mention for the animation quality and well as the game mechanics. Music wise, it's perfect..

 

 

[rmzalbar]

On 11/24/2022 at 5:03 AM, ZuluGula said:

In United States of America we have "innocent until proven guilty"

We also have all the justice money can buy. For better or worse 

Edited November 26, 2022 by rmzalbar

[rensoup]

17 hours ago, slx said:

it is somehow very satisfying to see that those ports were not missing due to insufficient hardware. 

That was a goal of mine.

 

To be honest, I doubt it would have been possible to get near the same quality back then. The development environment is just that much better. Something as simple as the code for optimizing sprite space would have been a difficult to run on even on an AtariST. The compression algorithms (ZX0, ZX5, LZSS) didn't even exist ! And obviously working with Altirra gives you access to all the A8 internals while you'd have been facing a blank screen for the hundreds of encountered bugs on a real A8.

 

Still quite satisfying though!

 

10 hours ago, Mclaneinc said:

Thank you Rensoup and all the hard work by the crew, the graphics get a special mention for the animation quality and well as the game mechanics. Music wise, it's perfect..

Thanks everybody for the support.

[kiwilove]

This is certainly not a game I expected to see converted across to the A8 hardware - though seeing the previous beginning of a port, did illustrate how it is indeed possible to.

Of course seeing such a project continuing onto completion is what every old Atari fan wants to see done again and again.  Especially when it is done to such attention to detail, as you have done.

Sadly this particular game I don't have the desire to play through again, having played the SNES conversion in it's day.

I'll gladly watch someone play through this entire game and appreciate the quality of work involved and executed in it's creation.

 

I do wonder what your next game project will be? Or other ones further down the line.  There is one particular game I like to see fully done, but won't mention the title here.  It's probably on a lot of players' most wanted list - and is known to be doable now.

 

Harvey