rensoup Posted July 7, 2021 Author Share Posted July 7, 2021 15 hours ago, Jacques said: You wrote it like it's disadvantage that something else is loading fine ? you're saying your device is better because it's mostly compatible...Great. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted July 7, 2021 Author Share Posted July 7, 2021 14 hours ago, Mazzspeed said: I am also stating, as evidenced by this thread, that the notion of maximizing compatibility by using xbios has been a bit of a fail, as we're using xbios in an attempt to maximize compatibility at the expense of speed, but there's still compatibility issues while you dance around the issue with snide little abbreviated remarks in pseudo talk while taking the piss out of hardware made by others - As a result, to get 'speed' .CRT images have had to be implemented resulting in a totally different subset of issues - Some of which have been resolved, some of which are apparently as inexplicable as the compatibility issues experienced using xbios via SIO. Bullshit 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 Hello guys 9 hours ago, DjayBee said: The developer defines once how much extended RAM (and perhaps which pages) he will use. I sincerely hope (s)he uses a routine to find out if and which banks are available. Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted July 7, 2021 Author Share Posted July 7, 2021 13 hours ago, Heaven/TQA said: release the game on tape please so all can shut up… Now there's an idea ? 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 Hello Rensoup 6 minutes ago, rensoup said: Now there's an idea ? And please release the source code too (if you didn't already). That way those that are curious and able can look through the code and see if they can find a solution to the bugs found. Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted July 7, 2021 Author Share Posted July 7, 2021 10 hours ago, DjayBee said: @xxl Is it possible to sacrifice a few bytes of RAM for an xBIOS-internal LRU sector cache in extended memory (if somebody has more than 128K in total)? I'm planning on caching the directory in reduced format, that would be faster and probably save a tiny bit of space (because I wouldn't have filenames stored in executable) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzspeed Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 12 minutes ago, rensoup said: Bullshit With respect Rensoup, I see no bullshit in that post at all. As stated, at least there's a working .CRT image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted July 7, 2021 Author Share Posted July 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Mazzspeed said: That's it. No A8 with the exception of the 130XE (interestingly enough, the very machine you have) has 128k as standard, so I find the whole limitation of 128k odd. Same as the original on Apple2 1 hour ago, Mazzspeed said: Nowhere in there did I make any incorrect statements regarding xbios, as the fact is: It's slow as molasses in 2021 and it hasn't really resolved any compatibility issues. Even after the SIDE3 loader update there's still oddities running the game on certain configurations using either xbios via SIO or the .CRT image via a multicart (issues not limited to SIDE3) - So the point stands that by using xbios to eliminate compatibility issues, we still have compatibility issues and the added complexity of an entirely new subset of issues surrounding .CRT images. Bullshit 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzspeed Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 20 minutes ago, rensoup said: an extra 64KB for faster loading on some devices. Brilliant... How is that any different to the current situation when there's only one A8 that has 128k standard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted July 7, 2021 Author Share Posted July 7, 2021 33 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said: Maybe they'll get it to load reliably at 1x SIO before it hits 100 pages. That would be impressive. What would be seriously impressive is you not coming across as a douche every time you post. 1 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted July 7, 2021 Author Share Posted July 7, 2021 10 minutes ago, Mazzspeed said: How is that any different to the current situation when there's only one A8 that has 128k standard? The goal was to make PoP A8 work with the same specs as the Apple2, the game is made for 128KB machines. If I used 192KB, people would not believe I wasted 64KB just to have it load faster. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzspeed Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, rensoup said: What would be seriously impressive is you not coming across as a douche every time you post. I'm sorry mate, but a rebuttal comprising of 'Bullshit' doesn't place you on the soap box in this regard. Such comments aren't really worthy of a reply TBH. However, once again with all due respect, at least I have a working .CAR image. Thank you for your hard work, no sarcasm intended. This thread actually highlights the numerous issues developers faced in the day when considering ports to release on the A8 platform, and they had nothing to do with Jack Tramiel. Edited July 7, 2021 by Mazzspeed Semantics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzspeed Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, rensoup said: If I used 192KB, people would not believe I wasted 64KB just to have it load faster. I honestly don't think anyone would have cared as long as they don't have to wait ~2.3 mins for the game to load considering most would have to upgrade their 400/800/XL anyway. Edited July 7, 2021 by Mazzspeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Robot Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 12 minutes ago, Mazzspeed said: As stated, at least there's a working .CRT image. There isn't a single working .CRT image for the Atari. Commodore 64 cart images are .CRT, on the Atari we use .CAR (or .BIN if we are feeling masochistic) Only mentioning it because you say .CRT a lot and no one has corrected you yet. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzspeed Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 Just now, Mr Robot said: There isn't a single working .CRT image for the Atari. Commodore 64 cart images are .CRT, on the Atari we use .CAR (or .BIN if we are feeling masochistic) Only mentioning it because you say .CRT a lot and no one has corrected you yet. Semantics my friend, feel free to substitute .CAR as you please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted July 7, 2021 Author Share Posted July 7, 2021 7 minutes ago, Mazzspeed said: I'm sorry mate, but a rebuttal comprising of 'Bullshit' doesn't place you on the soap box in this regard. Such comments aren't really worthy of a reply TBH. I'm really getting fed up with people saying the game doesn't load reliably when their devices cause retry errors while real drives don't. This has been going on for pages... and to top it off FJC has only posted junk in here. To reiterate: The game loads fine on real drives. If it doesn't load under certain newer configs It's quite likely your config has issues emulating real drives timings. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzspeed Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 13 hours ago, Heaven/TQA said: But you guys know that a game needs to be written and designed for a cart with all different banking schemes? Which is interesting, as the C64 port also has a 128k ram requirement, the difference is it uses the banked ram of the cart to provide the 128k which can be emulated by the two multicarts available for the C64 that can run .CRT images just fine with no compatibility issues whatsoever. Just download > Open FTP client > Transfer file to 1541 UII+, scoot over to C64 and run as cart. Done. Furthermore, it's a really well done Apple port with no compromises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzspeed Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, rensoup said: I'm really getting fed up with people saying the game doesn't load reliably when their devices cause retry errors while real drives don't. Who's actually tested the latest variants for sector reloads using real drives? Are you now stating that a real floppy drive is also a requirement? Stunt Car Racer loads at snails pace using xbios, but it doesn't have the sector retries evidenced plain as day under RespeQt - Especially on the load between the intro/loader and the main game loading PoP. Do you want another video? Edited July 7, 2021 by Mazzspeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 31 minutes ago, rensoup said: The game loads fine on real drives. That's seems correct, based on all the testing (and burin-ins), since pretty early versions... and even with more exotic, timing-impacting features enabled on some of those drives. Don't like or don't want loading from an authentic, legacy SIO-device? No worries, switch to .any of the available CAR images. They work just fine. Anything else is just fantasizing "Alice-in-Wonderland" style. (I already learned my own lesson about Xbios and its true purpose, the hard-way, EONS ago... ) To the above extent, a good multi-cart should be the very first plug-and-play companion device on anyone's arsenal, and capable of significantly augmenting the capabilities of an otherwise stock machine... and effortlessly. Good news is PoP will be great for AVG, SIDE3, Ultimate/SD and/or The!Cart sales !!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 1 hour ago, flashjazzcat said: Maybe they'll get it to load reliably at 1x SIO before it hits 100 pages. That would be impressive. I was going to ask if we could have a tape version. I'd love to wait at least an hour before being able to play a game where you die in 2 minutes. Once the tape version is released, we can all bitch because version 1 of 200 of unknown turbo tape loaders is not implemented. Some people just need their 600 baud game to load at 750 baud! 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted July 8, 2021 Author Share Posted July 8, 2021 50 minutes ago, Mazzspeed said: Which is interesting, as the C64 port also has a 128k ram requirement, the difference is it uses the banked ram of the cart to provide the 128k which can be emulated by the two multicarts available for the C64 that can run .CRT images just fine with no compatibility issues whatsoever. Just download > Open FTP client > Transfer file to 1541 UII+, scoot over to C64 and run as cart. Done. Furthermore, it's a really well done Apple port with no compromises. the C64 version uses 64KB of RAM and 512KB of ROM 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted July 8, 2021 Author Share Posted July 8, 2021 50 minutes ago, Mazzspeed said: Who's actually tested the latest variants for sector reloads using real drives? Are you now stating that a real floppy drive is also a requirement? No, I am saying some newer devices don't seem to emulate real drives properly. 52 minutes ago, Mazzspeed said: Stunt Car Racer loads at snails pace using xbios, but it doesn't have the sector retries evidenced plain as day under RespeQt - Especially on the load between the intro/loader and the main game loading PoP. Do you want another video? SCR has less than 20 files on disc (which is ED) while PoP has more than 60 files and is using DD. I don't know how your device works regarding caching. The fact that SCR has no retries could be linked to those differences or it could be the mouse loading icon isn't fast enough, still it shouldn't stop loading because it never does on real drives. But sure let's see a video with a respeqt log, fastestmouse version, with the mouse on the side of the screen and its animation frozen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DjayBee Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Mathy said: I sincerely hope (s)he uses a routine to find out if and which banks are available. You did not understand my idea. The dev defines and documents his needs for the program and xB takes the remainder for caching. This cannot be detected by xB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Mazzspeed said: Who's actually tested the latest variants for sector reloads using real drives? Are you now stating that a real floppy drive is also a requirement? With @DjayBee's tip the other day to use CopyMate 4.4, I wrote the full-game "bugfix" version to a double-density floppy disk (using one of my Happy 1050's) and ran it on two different NTSC machines for a couple hours without any obvious problems. But I gotta say, the drive heads sure do grind around a lot in attract/demo mode. ? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschak909 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 Is the latest build running with FujiNet? (I've been away working on other things). If not, let's try doing an ATX version. That kicks in real disk drive timing. -Thom 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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