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XM has shipped!


Curt Vendel
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10 minutes ago, Zonie said:

Y'know, I seem to remember that one of the devs involved quit because of how people treated him here and expect him to bend over backwards for them when they don't get what they want.

Remember, we paid for the housings only, the contents are gratis. They'll make some back on after pre-order sales, but never recoup their total investment. 

 

 

 

That is 100 percent false. That statement of what the money covered only came up well afterward. As for GroovyBee "quitting" there is a hell of a lot more to that story than you seem to realize and it's not limited to his involvement in the XM and people complaining about HIS feature creeping on it's specs holding things back. There is much more to do with his other matters including other consoles, games and a ton of money that where at the forefront of that situation. And yes, for a time GroovyBee did quit, and then refused to play nice and kept the source code to himself of what he did have done on the BIOS when both CPUWIZ and tepe32 both offered to complete the BIOS in his absence, again this was years ago. And if you don't think that CPUWIZ or tepe32 would have had this all signed, sealed and delivered years ago on the software side you would be greatly understating the abilities of both men. Hell, if you think either of those two wouldn't have had it done over the last 6 months of nil progress you would again be selling them short. Trust me when I say I wish this situation was 100 percent different than it is.

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1 hour ago, Zonie said:

You can always sell your spot to someone else. No shortage of people here who want one...

Why the hell would I step out of line after being backer #11?  Trust me bud, I've earned my right to bitch about things more than any of the "johnny come lately" folks.

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23 minutes ago, Zonie said:

Y'know, I seem to remember that one of the devs involved quit because of how people treated him here and expect him to bend over backwards for them when they don't get what they want. If people keep bitching, they may all just say fuck it, and then we all will be out our $100. Wanna reimburse everyone because you pissed off the devs? 

Remember, we paid for the housings only, the contents are gratis. They'll make some back on after pre-order sales, but never recoup their total investment. 

 

These guys do this for the love of the hobby. I'm happy they do. I wish I could afford to buy every home brew I want, but cannot. If you have ever spent ANY time designing hardware or coding (I do) you would realize that you are getting something for about 20% of what it should cost when it finally does arrive.

Also bullshit.  I did not pay for just a case.  I gave money to handle the cases and drive a finished product.  Don't chime in with that "be positive or you'll cause the project to fail" garbage either.  I've never charged someone and not had work done within a week let alone a DECADE.  Also, when I fail at something I get called out for it.  I don't blame the people causing me stress to have caused the failure.  My failure to deliver caused them to yell at me.  Pretty simple concept.

 

There's a saying "don't piss on my back and tell me it's raining".  At this point, I'd rather hear nothing for the next 5 years rather than another single false promise or missed date.

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1 hour ago, Zonie said:

Y'know, I seem to remember that one of the devs involved quit because of how people treated him here and expect him to bend over backwards for them when they don't get what they want. If people keep bitching, they may all just say fuck it, and then we all will be out our $100. Wanna reimburse everyone because you pissed off the devs? 

Remember, we paid for the housings only, the contents are gratis. They'll make some back on after pre-order sales, but never recoup their total investment. 

 

These guys do this for the love of the hobby. I'm happy they do. I wish I could afford to buy every home brew I want, but cannot. If you have ever spent ANY time designing hardware or coding (I do) you would realize that you are getting something for about 20% of what it should cost when it finally does arrive.

I'm a dev too and I got my own project going on. I do it because I love it. I don't take people money upfront since this set expectations which is normal. If preorder didnt cover the cost its not the problem of the end user.

 

When you take people money you become accountable to those person. If there is a software problem holding the release then action need to be taken. Reaching out publicly will only help.

 

Nothing happen waiting for someone to have time to do it. Will more money raise from extra preorder motivate them?

 

If not I'm sure there is dev out there out of a job that would gladly take the contract. 

Edited by DarthCloud
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Its been almost 10 years since I funded this project. I was under the impression that it would come with an SIO port. Now i guess I will have to install it myself. But I suck a soldering so I guess it wont happen. One of the reasons I bought this was for the chance to load ROMs from my PC. I am very disappointed by this. I have only funded one other pre-order and that was Rocketerre from Groovy and I know I will never see my money or game from that. So glad I didnt support the taco VCS boys. Hopefully we will see some hardware soon.

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Guys wth?? Everyone needs to chillax and stop acting like a bunch of Sega kids. We have been through this a thousand times already. I almost threw up when I read the last 8 or so posts. I know we can be more intelligent than this. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jinks said:

Guys wth?? Everyone needs to chillax and stop acting like a bunch of Sega kids. We have been through this a thousand times already. I almost threw up when I read the last 8 or so posts. I know we can be more intelligent than this.

1 hour ago, Jinks said:

I don't really care, I make my own hardware and promise nothing.  BTW, if they manage to detect my board, dual POKEY is possible.

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It's only been 4 years...

It's only been 5 years...

It's only been 8 years...

Now, we're at 10 years and hearing the same thing. At what amount of years is it OK to bitch about the wait? Asking for a friend.

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12 hours ago, Cobra Kai said:

It's only been 4 years...

It's only been 5 years...

It's only been 8 years...

Now, we're at 10 years and hearing the same thing. At what amount of years is it OK to bitch about the wait? Asking for a friend.

I bitched for 5 or 6 of those years really hardcore.. does it help? Nope!! 

 

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17 hours ago, CPUWIZ said:

I don't really care, I make my own hardware and promise nothing.  BTW, if they manage to detect my board, dual POKEY is possible.

I know. I just could not stomach another bitchfest... It seemed so 2013.. 

Maybe I am the one that needs to leave this thread. Enjoy guys!! ?

 

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Yep - just another "pop off" before we wait out the next 7 years.  I am thinking that XM release notices should from here on out, only go out with the "Cicada Cycle(TM)".  I am pretty sure, we'll have the XM before Comet NeoWise comes around again in 1000+ years.

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I'm curious how many XM's have been physically built on the hardware side of things over this span of time and are just waiting for this "consumer" BIOS revision to be sent out to the masses? I mean it's not like the BIOS not being ready for mass use can stop the already finalized hardware from being built. You would think that a large number of them will have been built since the last XM unit was shipped out to Synthapoloza right? They would be just sitting ready to get a fresh BIOS flash to get out the door I would hope?  I'm not being silly here either, I'd really like to know how many where built in the meantime from March 2nd till July 30th?

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Personally I don't think I'll ever receive my XM, sad but true. What I do find amazing is Curt constantly digging at the VCS ataribox vapourware in his holier than thou way. They have only been waiting for 3 years for that to not arrive. 

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11 hours ago, Shawn said:

I'm curious how many XM's have been physically built on the hardware side of things over this span of time and are just waiting for this "consumer" BIOS revision to be sent out to the masses? I mean it's not like the BIOS not being ready for mass use can stop the already finalized hardware from being built. You would think that a large number of them will have been built since the last XM unit was shipped out to Synthapoloza right? They would be just sitting ready to get a fresh BIOS flash to get out the door I would hope?  I'm not being silly here either, I'd really like to know how many where built in the meantime from March 2nd till July 30th.

My spidy-senses are telling me a big fat zero.

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I left AtariAge in 2013....then came back in 2020, and I am absolutely floored that this thread is still here and people are still asking literally the same questions and getting vague/similar answers 7 years later. I fully expected this to have been done and submitted in my absence - and much like Stephen, I'm somewhere in the first handful of people to have preordered it.

 

Frankly, I'm indifferent about it and if it shows up, great, if it doesn't, that sucks, but what are people going to do. If we're all out $100+ or so it sucks, but it's better than a lot of other things that could happen. I'm no Positive Pollyanna that claims everyone being realistic is "HATERZ" either, though.

 

The end point of this is: Expectations were set about a product. Those expectations on the part of consumers may be reasonable or unreasonable. But as a producer, when you provide information that create whatever those expectations are, you should anticipate unhappy and unsatisfied consumers if you fail to deliver. There can be a million reasons for those failures, and those reasons may be valid, at which point the consumer needs to be understanding. BUT that doesn't completely shift the burden to the consumer to simply spout unicorns and rainbows 24/7 while fanboy gushing.

 

As several very experienced and incredibly smart creators on here have said, if you can't back up the words, don't say them to begin with - don't create the expectations in the first place if you don't have a solid and good faith belief that those deadlines will be met. And don't take money until you're absolutely ready to go for something. I don't hold breaking these rules against any creator. But I also think a creator should anticipate that failing to meet expectations will chafe buyers and make people (either understandably or not understandably) upset in some ways. Having an attitude that this is entirely "black and white" and taking sides (either the "fan club" or the "haters") is flogging a dead horse at this point - and it looked like that horse died long before I first left AtariAge in 2013.....

 

#1. Is it unreasonable for a product to take 10 years? ABSOLUTELY.

#2. Are there possibly justified reasons for the delay? PROBABLY.

#3. Are the creators doing this for the love of the hobby? ABSOLUTELY.

#4. Does that excuse blasting through reasonable deadlines? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

 

There can be a universe where all of these things are true; where failure to deliver is unacceptable to consumers BUT ALSO where it's potentially justified. The Venn Diagram has a middle, and we're square at it. The people who have complaints are justified. The people who are defending also have points. Both positions are true and valid, and arguing with each other over who's "right" or "wrong" ultimately is asinine (no offense).

 

If you're going to get out the pitchforks and torches, get them out and point them at the XM team, not at the "XM Defense Brigade", because the XM team's the one making the promises, not the AA users who rush to defend them.

 

If you're on the "XM Defense Brigade" don't rush to assume those with pitchforks and torches are the enemy. The XM team made their own bed as soon as they made promises. They don't need white knights to defend them, they're perfectly capable of providing their own justifications and rationales.

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I just really wish I could help out.  I'm not super strong in electronics, but have some background there, but am strong in software development, especially low level (having done Device Drivers and TSRs in DOS as well as Assembly Language for DesqView up through Windows 32-bit.  Some of it as a hobby, some professionally.  Unfortunately none of it is Atari specific though.  And there's this problem of having no spare time too.  ?

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What really gets my goat, is knowing that there are countless other parallel universes out there where the XM shipped years ago, triggering a period of 7800 nirvana for Atari fans.  Parallel me must be loving life.

 

 

It has now occurred to this me that we must fix this timeline in our universe.  We must travel back to...Oh no!  They found me!  I don't know how, but they found me... RUN FOR IT MARTY!!!

 

;)

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On 7/31/2020 at 8:01 PM, MattelAquarius said:

What really gets my goat, is knowing that there are countless other parallel universes out there where the XM shipped years ago, triggering a period of 7800 nirvana for Atari fans.  Parallel me must be loving life.

 

 

It has now occurred to this me that we must fix this timeline in our universe.  We must travel back to...Oh no!  They found me!  I don't know how, but they found me... RUN FOR IT MARTY!!!

 

;)

LOL. Thanks for that. Other than being locked, this thread needed levity.

I'm for waiting. 

This and the Commander X16 are the two things I really want.

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I am not a prepaid investor of this but the same person was making the same complaints about another Atari product years ago---

 

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/vendel$20harker$20catbox/comp.sys.atari.8bit/rvwTIqfKe-I/gLgTZ_IbpeIJ

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/vendel$20harker$20catbox/rec.games.video.atari/jdYBwGQHnxA/_oqjJP_kMAwJ

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/vendel$20harker$20catbox/alt.atari-jaguar/V514Prqfaqk/Z_D5o-h9Wh0J

 

I do not know what a catbox is and I am guessing it doesn't hold litter :)  But all the same things he complained about then could easily apply to this xm and people have been waiting for ten years?  Someone here talked about an alternate universe where this was finished and being enjoyed.  I think in this universe people should get a refund after waiting for so long.

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56 minutes ago, trapperkeeper said:

I am not a prepaid investor of this but the same person was making the same complaints about another Atari product years ago---

 

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/vendel$20harker$20catbox/comp.sys.atari.8bit/rvwTIqfKe-I/gLgTZ_IbpeIJ

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/vendel$20harker$20catbox/rec.games.video.atari/jdYBwGQHnxA/_oqjJP_kMAwJ

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/vendel$20harker$20catbox/alt.atari-jaguar/V514Prqfaqk/Z_D5o-h9Wh0J

 

I do not know what a catbox is and I am guessing it doesn't hold litter :)  But all the same things he complained about then could easily apply to this xm and people have been waiting for ten years?  Someone here talked about an alternate universe where this was finished and being enjoyed.  I think in this universe people should get a refund after waiting for so long.

Nobody in the Catbox fiasco got their money back (or their product).  I've officially stopped giving a single fuck about this.  Fool me with one or two false promises, shame on you.  Fool me with #40, and yeah.  I'm the idiot and shame on me.  I've given up on ever seeing it, the same as I will never see the VBXE2 nor the Amiga 500 I paid AA user sloopy $250 for.  VBXE was 8.5 years ago, Amiga was 2 years ago.  Lying thief never delivered, so I can kiss that $400+ goodbye. In the grand scheme of things, I can say the $100 I paid for this has given me ten years of entertaining threads.  That's way more fun than I'll ever get out of the 7800, with or without the XM :)

 

P.S.

Don't anyone ask if they can buy my order or take my place in line.  I'll answer in advance by saying "no".

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I, personally, and many others, I feel, have faith in Curt and the team. He's really been through a lot. If it were me, I'd have sent all the whiners their empty XM cases and said to hell with it.

 

I can wait. I have a lot of stuff in front of it anyway. If it showed up tomorrow, it would go to the bottom of the pile and wait its turn. It's now in a race with the Commander X16...

 

Think about it... 11 years after buying in, and this thing shows up and opens up a whole new era of games... Sounds like a win to me.

 

Edited by Zonie
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7 minutes ago, Zonie said:

It's now in a race with the Commander X16...

Jeez.

 

Go back and watch David's first video and then see what it morphed into along the way. Per the official website they still haven't decided what audio chip to use, or whether to go FPGA for sound, despite literally months of shitting on every constructive comment on the Facebook group suggesting they use FPGA or microcontrollers for stuff like keyboard, mouse, video and audio at the outset ... Oh, the hypocrisy of some of the people involved in that project ...

 

People should follow @mytek's model: tease a project, then go radio-silent until there's actually visible progress to announce. Don't let anyone sell anything related to it until it's done. 

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