Class316 Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 When I see all these NES classic, SNES classic, Aracade mini plug and play devices, etc etc etc, while it is cool to see such things sold on retail, I can't help but tell myself it is no match for emulation as that is more flexible, offers the complete library of games as originally released, and is basically free. Am I the only one that thinks like this? Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 20 minutes ago, Class316 said: Am I the only one that thinks like this? Thoughts? No. For under $100 I have a Raspberry Pi loaded with over 10,000 games connected HDMI to my 50+ inch TV and a wireless Xbox controller so I can sit my fat ass in the recliner. While this setup doesn't allow me to play systems like Atari 5200, INTV and ColecoVision because of keypad input, a lot of those games are arcade translations anyway which I can play in MAME and those libraries pale in comparison to what I otherwise can play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE146 Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 They're all emulation of course. However half the appeal of the "classic" systems is the official mini/cute model version of the console, along with box, etc. Lots of people collect them for that, and never turn them on to play play a single game. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 I think it's great that these mini re-releases are out there. They're an example of emulation for the masses. They do a decent job of bringing the classics home in a simplified way. For the more discerning among us, there's PC-based emulation which is 10x more flexible and essentially free but just a little bit harder to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Class316 said: and is basically free. "Free" as in "stolen," sure! The ROMs on commercial plug and plays have been licensed and the intellectual property owners get a cut of the sales. They're also convenient, and as others have pointed out, many of them are cute. Can't beat emulation for completion, convenience, and versatility, but plug-n-plays are not directly comparable with RetroPie, especially if you care about the ethics of copyright infringement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 Yeah, as long as you're ethically okay with it, then you're fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class316 Posted February 3, 2020 Author Share Posted February 3, 2020 I suppose if you collect them to collect them that's fine but to play it's a bit redundant. Emulation on PC only harder for those who don't have common sense. As for the ethics issue, for obvious reasons doesn't bother me one bit. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 It's not only those that have no common sense, but the lazy ones too. And I think those are worse. You can sometimes teach an idiot, but it's harder to change a lame disposition. Some people are extraordinarily resistant to learning anything PC or just plain'ol computer related. If a single touch on a phone doesn't accomplish the job they want nothing to do with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 6 hours ago, Class316 said: I suppose if you collect them to collect them that's fine but to play it's a bit redundant. Emulation on PC only harder for those who don't have common sense. As for the ethics issue, for obvious reasons doesn't bother me one bit. First, realize where you are. This is a forum largely populated by people who grew up with the actual hardware. Most of us are no stranger to emulation but we have exactly the kind of nostalgia for the original hardware that these mini consoles and computers are designed to appeal to. You may not get it, but a lot of us here do. That said, I don't own any of these systems (except for the *original* Atari Flashback from like 15 years ago) specifically because I'd rather just have the actual system. I don't need an NES Mini not because I have a PC with emulation, but because I have an actual NES. Same with basically all the other systems. I do use emulation as well but I find it a vastly inferior experience to the real thing in literally every case. It's a poor-man's imitation of the real system, and that's regardless of what system you're emulating and what you're emulating it on. But it works in a pinch when the real thing is either difficult to obtain or would be extremely impractical (like having 500 different arcade machines in your house). As for ethics, there was a time when most of this stuff was considered abandonware. It was easier to justify then, because how else were you even going to get it, and if you didn't, what was going to happen to those games? They'd just be gone. Emulation in those days I'm convinced showed game makers that there was still demand for the classics, and it kept the entire culture around those games alive. It's harder to justify now when game companies are actively re-releasing those games, and they own them after all. I honestly still don't have much of a problem with emulating stuff that isn't available any other way (which is especially true of a lot of arcade games), but a lot of the best console games from all eras are available again now. I don't always buy the new re-releases (though I do sometimes) but there's certainly nothing illegal about owning a used original cartridge. That's mostly what I do. It's a better experience anyway. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 I expect my stuff to work without fail. And I enjoy light gaming in various locations around the house, like either the reading nook or attic or outside on the veranda. In this way emulation is superior all around. Emulation elegantly eliminates the #1 bane of real hardware - reliability. In practice I only need maintain a PC or two and not 100 arcade machines and consoles. I even get to experience my childhood dream of an all-in-one system. The same hardware playing ColecoVision, Atari VCS, Intellivision. And so much more. I don't necessarily have nostalgia for the hardware, especially not arcade cabs. But more for the ambiance of the game in play. The experience of play. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class316 Posted February 5, 2020 Author Share Posted February 5, 2020 On 2/4/2020 at 1:45 AM, spacecadet said: First, realize where you are. This is a forum largely populated by people who grew up with the actual hardware. Most of us are no stranger to emulation but we have exactly the kind of nostalgia for the original hardware that these mini consoles and computers are designed to appeal to. You may not get it, but a lot of us here do. That said, I don't own any of these systems (except for the *original* Atari Flashback from like 15 years ago) specifically because I'd rather just have the actual system. I don't need an NES Mini not because I have a PC with emulation, but because I have an actual NES. Same with basically all the other systems. I do use emulation as well but I find it a vastly inferior experience to the real thing in literally every case. It's a poor-man's imitation of the real system, and that's regardless of what system you're emulating and what you're emulating it on. But it works in a pinch when the real thing is either difficult to obtain or would be extremely impractical (like having 500 different arcade machines in your house). As for ethics, there was a time when most of this stuff was considered abandonware. It was easier to justify then, because how else were you even going to get it, and if you didn't, what was going to happen to those games? They'd just be gone. Emulation in those days I'm convinced showed game makers that there was still demand for the classics, and it kept the entire culture around those games alive. It's harder to justify now when game companies are actively re-releasing those games, and they own them after all. I honestly still don't have much of a problem with emulating stuff that isn't available any other way (which is especially true of a lot of arcade games), but a lot of the best console games from all eras are available again now. I don't always buy the new re-releases (though I do sometimes) but there's certainly nothing illegal about owning a used original cartridge. That's mostly what I do. It's a better experience anyway. I've had real hardware back in the day but prefer emulation based on practically and flexibility. Sometimes it even improves. Like save states or graphic filters. I do agree that emulation in its early days kept the classic games alive and I think they're the reason they get re released today. As for trying to justify emulation because the games aren't abandonware, that's also very easy for me to do. A lot of times these collection sets are not true to the original in the sense that they censor things due to rights issues or other issues or try to George Lucas SE it to a point where it gets ruined. Dracula X for PCE CD is one example of George Lucas SE. Sometimes the collections are also not complete. Like for instance a Genesis Collection has Sonic 1 thru 3 but not Sonic and Knuckles (not to mention no Sonic 2 and Knuckles and Sonic 3 and Knuckles). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LS650 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 On 2/3/2020 at 3:54 PM, Class316 said: Emulation on PC only harder for those who don't have common sense. You may be overestimating how common 'common sense' really is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class316 Posted February 6, 2020 Author Share Posted February 6, 2020 3 hours ago, ls650 said: You may be overestimating how common 'common sense' really is. Good point To add another thing, I also choose the "alternate" over the "legal" in other things not just games. For instance classic cartoons. Sometimes they are unavailable in uncensored form legally. Or sometimes not at all like Disney's Song of the South where you'd need a VHS or laserdisc to watch it legally. Or you can download an "alternate" release that is actually BETTER than those legal options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 11 hours ago, Class316 said: Sometimes the collections are also not complete. Like for instance a Genesis Collection has Sonic 1 thru 3 but not Sonic and Knuckles (not to mention no Sonic 2 and Knuckles and Sonic 3 and Knuckles). What makes you *entitled* to having Sonic and Knuckles in a particular collection? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 On 2/2/2020 at 3:46 PM, NE146 said: They're all emulation of course. However half the appeal of the "classic" systems is the official mini/cute model version of the console, along with box, etc. To add to that, the easy plug 'n play nature of them. No tinkering. You power it on and it just works. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class316 Posted February 6, 2020 Author Share Posted February 6, 2020 6 hours ago, spacecadet said: What makes you *entitled* to having Sonic and Knuckles in a particular collection? My own selfish desires that benefit me. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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