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Let's Say Next Generation, A Console Manufacturer Is Going To Get Out Of The Console Market. Who's It Going To Be?


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8 minutes ago, zzip said:

Yes true.  I just take issue with people who claim that if you spend less money on a PC, you will end up with better-specced gaming system than a console for the same price. 

If you want a gaming system that isn't already obsolete and will last more than a year or two, you will be spending most of that $300 on just the video card.

No, that's a myth too.   I check the PS4 store, GoG and Steam for the best deals on games and generally find they have the same retail prices and same sale prices.   The only difference is they may not run the same sales at the same time. 

 

 

A $300 computer can play old games from 1980s and up at low prices at GOG.

 

Modern games have the same prices in retail stores and they might not run on $300 computers.

 

There are more games to choose from than we have with today consoles.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Serguei2 said:

A $300 computer can play old games from 1980s and up at low prices at GOG.

 

 

True but Dosbox runs almost everywhere these days,  on your mobile phone, some game consoles, even $30 Raspberry PIs.   Chances are you already have a device that can play these old games,  I'm not sure why someone would spend $300 for the sole purpose of running old games.  Or maybe it's me because I could build a system like that for free with all older PC parts I've collected over time.

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3 minutes ago, zzip said:

True but Dosbox runs almost everywhere these days,  on your mobile phone, some game consoles, even $30 Raspberry PIs.   Chances are you already have a device that can play these old games,  I'm not sure why someone would spend $300 for the sole purpose of running old games.  Or maybe it's me because I could build a system like that for free with all older PC parts I've collected over time.

I'm probably exaggerated with 1980s games, but there are great windows games from 1995 at decent prices available at GOG and they might run on $300 computers not counting with indie games used low system requirements as well.

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2 hours ago, Serguei2 said:

Why would we pay $300 today for a console when for the same price, you get a decent computer.

 

If Microsoft lefts video game market and Sony, (I heard PS5 would be the last console) what would we have at the end of the line? Nintendo and its famous games.

 

2 hours ago, zzip said:

except you can't.   I spent something like $800 last year updating my PC to more modern standards,  but guess what?  It doesn't quite match the known specs of the PS5, which will most likely sell for less.

 

Now these are just upgrades, and I'm a bargain shopper, I wait for deals.   If I had to build a full computer including Windows license, keyboard, mouse, case, power supply, I'd be looking closer to $1,000

 

@zzip's math checks out for me.  I've been shopping for a replacement PC during this entire console generation and to really get an upgrade from my last gen machine has consistently cost about $800.  In fact, I finally pulled the trigger and bought a refurbished laptop for around that price.  It is an upgrade in every way, but I know it won't do everything the NEXT generation has in store.  Of course a desktop would allow for more future flexibility, but now we are getting into the old debate.

 

Point is that the console will always offer the consumer an easier cheaper option.  As long as that continues to be true, the console isn't going anywhere.  And, there is plenty of money to go around.  One of those articles I linked on the last page made the claim that over 2 billion people are now playing games of some kind worldwide.  That's bigger than any other form of entertainment.  There are only like 9 billion on the planet, so that is an enormous slice of the population.  Plenty of room for all types of products.

 

. . . Oh and I would never spend any $$ just to play games in DOSBox or whatever.  I have a pile of machines already in my house that can handle that.  Want one?  They aren't really worth what it costs to ship.

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Because it's not directly about the immediate dollar but the long game.  Consoles seem to expire roughly every 5 years, less now thanks to those pro updates, maybe 3?  They also only can typically do at best, games and movies, little else of consequence.  A PC these days, easily can last you at least 7 years before the new stuff doesn't run so acceptably nice anymore if at all, and it's not just a game box, it does heaps and also at the same time with freedoms as it's not a walled garden.

 

isthereanydeal.com is a good source if you want to play games about where you can get the best deals on this and that as they track it all from around 30 online stores or so.  Try checking that, then run that up against what deals Sony MS Nintendo put out.  I think you'll find, and in particular the console level stuff (not console indie, but big fish stuff) the PC is cheaper and faster cheaper too, so that savings does apply there as a plus.  Those crazy quarterly season sales and then major holidays GoG, Steam etc they often do 50-80+% off deals that run anywhere from 24 hours to the 1-2wk long length of the sale.  I've seen plenty of cases where a new-ish console game is still $50-60 at retail and those seals slide in and they'll have a 33-50% off deal on the stuff, maybe more.  Deku Deals is the one for Nintendo, not sure about the others but I'm sure someone has setup a form to track all deals, how deep, is it the deepest, etc too.

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2 hours ago, Tanooki said:

Consoles seem to expire roughly every 5 years, less now thanks to those pro updates, maybe 3?

I agree with everything else you wrote except this small part here. The regular models are still just fine; I don't have the PS4 Pro and continue to use my regular PS4. The devs won't make exclusive games for them because they know they won't sell very well in comparison due to the difference in install base if they did. I mean, how many New 3DS exclusives are there? Except for the Virtual Console games, Xenoblade is the only one that I can remember.

 

That said, at the start of a new console generation, a new console typically gets you way more processing power for the money than building a PC with the exact same amount of cash. Yes, the PC does more, but if you are specifically looking for a good power to cost ratio, consoles are the best for their value.

 

I'll still be sticking with PC overall over consoles because they do offer far more in terms of functionality, a huge increase in power with proper cash investment, and since there are very few console exclusives anymore I still get the vast majority of non-Nintendo games on it anyway (and I have a Switch), but as I've become increasingly annoyed with modern games over the past 3 years or so, I find myself becoming increasingly alienated from modern games entirely and I don't have much desire to buy any modern tech or games at all at this point, PC and console included.

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Does anyone have stats on the commercial life of games? I assume they have their biggest sales when new, quickly tapering off, maybe with a bump when a Greatest Hits version comes out a year later with add-ons at a lower price. Kind of like movies in theaters, then with a home release, or hardcover books and a paperback release. 
 

To me, both consoles and PCs are delivering diminishing returns, because 3D hardware is mature and the new games will be a lot like the old game designs, only with somewhat better graphics and AI. They've been "good enough" to deliver fun to me for a long time. 
 

Of course I've said that every generation since the PS2 in the year 2000, yet they keep making more. ???

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6 hours ago, Steven Pendleton said:

I don't have the PS4 Pro and continue to use my regular PS4. The devs won't make exclusive games for them because they know they won't sell very well in comparison due to the difference in install base if they did

Also Sony doesn't allow Pro exclusives.  Every PS4 game must run on all PS4s, but also must contain enhancements for Pro.   I assume MS has a similar policy

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1 hour ago, Flojomojo said:

Does anyone have stats on the commercial life of games? I assume they have their biggest sales when new, quickly tapering off

Generally yes, the vast majority of sales are in the first week.     Some games are exceptions, like Minecraft and GTA V, that sell well for a long period of time.

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1 hour ago, Flojomojo said:

Does anyone have stats on the commercial life of games? I assume they have their biggest sales when new, quickly tapering off, maybe with a bump when a Greatest Hits version comes out a year later with add-one at a lower price. Kind of like movies in theaters, then with a home release, or hardcover books and a paperback release. 
 

To me, both consoles and PCs are delivering diminishing returns, because 3D hardware is mature and the new games will be a lot like the old game designs, only with somewhat better graphics and AI. They've been "good enough" to deliver fun to me for a long time. 
 

Of course I've said that every generation since the PS2 in the year 2000, yet they keep making more. ???

Famitsu sales charts are generally pretty good for this type of thing. Maybe not exactly what you are looking for, but close, as they track stuff for as long as it stays on the charts. They also always list lifetime sales next to weekly sales for both hardware and software. Japan-only, of course, but it's the only thing that I know of.

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3 minutes ago, zzip said:

Also Sony doesn't allow Pro exclusives.  Every PS4 game must run on all PS4s, but also must contain enhancements for Pro.   I assume MS has a similar policy

I did not know this. I imagine this will continue to persist should there be upgraded versions of PS5 and Xbox Series X (if MS has such a policy) in the future.

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The obvious choice from the big 3 is Microsoft. They've re-engineered Xbox over this current generation so that it's no longer intrinsically tied to a console box. Pretty much every Xbox game can be played via PC thanks to the Play Anywhere program. They've gotten chummy with Nintendo so some of their biggest digital indies are making the jump to the switch (Cuphead & Ori come to mind.) Even their controllers are easily mapped to PC & mobile devices for many services.

 

Basically, if sales of dedicated Xbox machines don't meet expectations, it's easy for Microsoft to finish converting the Xbox brand into a service. It's pretty much just re-branding Windows Gaming into Xbox, everything else is pretty much already in place. Of course, sales will have to be pretty abysmal for this to happen- this setup they've got going actually takes the edge off needing strong console sales to build an install base. They've got access to PC players, mobile players, even dedicated Nintendo fanboys are now within reach- offering standalone consoles seems to be three things: a way to reach those who don't/won't game on any of the above, a buy for those who just like having powerful tech toys, and a giant middle finger to Sony (the one install base they're cut off from).

 

The 10th generation is going to be interesting, becuase based on current info, the only one still playing the ol' console war game is Sony. Nintendo's been doing Nintendo for years, and Microsoft's put down roots in so many places they can pick & choose what's working for them. It's not a race anymore- it's a 3 ring circus.

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1 hour ago, Steven Pendleton said:

I did not know this. I imagine this will continue to persist should there be upgraded versions of PS5 and Xbox Series X (if MS has such a policy) in the future.

In fact, the new Xbox will play everything an Xbox1 can play (including OG Xbox and 360 backwards compatible titles), plus be able to use all the peripherals an Xbox1 can use.

 

These things are basically specialized PCs at this point, so backwards compatibility isn't as tough as it used to be. 

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17 hours ago, Serguei2 said:

Now, I'd like to see how PCs become less expensive.

PC's are like cars, you can spend whatever you want, depending on what you're looking for. You can buy a Raspberry Pi for $35 or spend $10k on an enthusiast monster PC build.

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I would say the ceiling of PC pricing is like car pricing. A person can pay $100K or more on a supercar. 

 

The floor of PC pricing is different from car pricing. A new car with modern safety features is going to run between $20K and $30K for a midrange, non-luxury brand. I guess an old used car would be like a $35 Pi, but there's no new car that's so affordable. Those would be bikes and scooters, I guess. 

 

I don't feel that cars got into the super-affordable range like PCs are now, especially laptops, which just a few years ago were super pricey. Now they're as cheap as a month of riding the train. I want to believe that cloud gaming plus better internet speed and distribution will eventually deliver fancy games on cheapo hardware. It's possible today, but far from mainstream. 

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On 3/4/2020 at 3:14 AM, Austin said:

Highly unlikely. They make bank from just Xbox Live Gold alone, and now they're expanding that with Game Pass. Digital game sales on their Xbox platforms likely bring in big numbers too. Too big for them to drop on a dime.

 

Personally, I don't see any of the "Big Three" going away anytime soon.

I'd be more surprised if likes of Sony decided to have another crack at portable gaming devices, after PSP and Vita or MS decide to launch an entry level VR system, next generation, rather than annouce they are to exit.

 

The home entertainment market where the box under the TV is your one stop delivery device, is far too lucrative to hand over to competition just yet. 

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6 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

Does anyone have stats on the commercial life of games? I assume they have their biggest sales when new, quickly tapering off, maybe with a bump when a Greatest Hits version comes out a year later with add-ons at a lower price. Kind of like movies in theaters, then with a home release, or hardcover books and a paperback release. 
 

To me, both consoles and PCs are delivering diminishing returns, because 3D hardware is mature and the new games will be a lot like the old game designs, only with somewhat better graphics and AI. They've been "good enough" to deliver fun to me for a long time. 
 

Of course I've said that every generation since the PS2 in the year 2000, yet they keep making more. ???

Yeah I used to, but the trend in very recent times seems to have shrunk even further from a decade back.  Basically most games would as physical releases make 80% of their shelf life profit within I think it was the first 4-6 weeks, after that the rest was re-stocks, old stock, unsold that would trickle out beyond that point.  Digital I'm not sure, that can be different because sales rotate quarterly like crazy on PC sites, random on mobile, so some people will hold out a month or three to get that 33-50% off deal so digital ends up being more of a long game than a short because there's no limited shelf life expectancy.

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4 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

I would say the ceiling of PC pricing is like car pricing. A person can pay $100K or more on a supercar. 

 

The floor of PC pricing is different from car pricing. A new car with modern safety features is going to run between $20K and $30K for a midrange, non-luxury brand. I guess an old used car would be like a $35 Pi, but there's no new car that's so affordable. Those would be bikes and scooters, I guess. 

 

I don't feel that cars got into the super-affordable range like PCs are now, especially laptops, which just a few years ago were super pricey. Now they're as cheap as a month of riding the train. I want to believe that cloud gaming plus better internet speed and distribution will eventually deliver fancy games on cheapo hardware. It's possible today, but far from mainstream. 

I didn't mean to make it a direct metaphor, just that they are similar in that there is a range in the pricing, depending on what you get. The range of an XBox is much smaller, with it's current 3 flavors (and bundles, I guess).

 

Though, the Pi=bike works. Both kinda do what the more expensive versions do, just not as much and not as well.

Edited by Agamon
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12 hours ago, Agamon said:

In fact, the new Xbox will play everything an Xbox1 can play (including OG Xbox and 360 backwards compatible titles), plus be able to use all the peripherals an Xbox1 can use.

 

These things are basically specialized PCs at this point, so backwards compatibility isn't as tough as it used to be. 

Um, what? I think you may have quoted the wrong person...

 

I'm talking about how there are apparently no games that require the PS4 Pro and maybe the Xbox One X because Sony and MS apparently don't allow games to be exclusive to the upgraded models.

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On 3/6/2020 at 9:03 PM, Steven Pendleton said:

Um, what? I think you may have quoted the wrong person...

 

I'm talking about how there are apparently no games that require the PS4 Pro and maybe the Xbox One X because Sony and MS apparently don't allow games to be exclusive to the upgraded models.

I'm just saying that, yes, it will persist, even between gens. At least for XBox, we still don't know much about PS5 other than the logo...

 

Granted, I think MS said there were no next gen exclusives only for the first year, but that's pretty significant.

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