PoP Slicer sound, should we update it ?

[rensoup]

17 hours ago, emkay said:

Up to you. I only make proposals

Well I can see this going sour very quickly and turning into endless arguments but maybe we can give it a shot...

[+skr]

On 4/18/2020 at 12:07 AM, rensoup said:

nifty...

 

 

 

what does everybody think ?

 

I like that very much.

 

This of course my very subjective opinion. In general, to me there is an importance in getting the right "feeling". I do not care much about how "realistic" something is, just, that it makes sense in the given context. In this case, there is an metallic obstacle which is dangerous to me. And the sound tells me exactly that: metal and danger. Totally fits the scene for me.

 

I totally like, when people go into theortical disussions to try figuring out a "right" solution. That might improve the final result, but there also is a danger of getting lost in details. Don´t miss the point where you say: This is done. Period.

[Rybags]

Given these are probably RMT effects or <something> that's not going to eat lots of memory, why not just pick the best 3 and have the option of which to use in a menu.  Or use the best 3 at various levels of the game.

[emkay]

18 minutes ago, skr said:

 

I totally like, when people go into theortical disussions to try figuring out a "right" solution. That might improve the final result, but there also is a danger of getting lost in details. Don´t miss the point where you say: This is done. Period.

I'm pretty sure RENSOUP still has a lot to do with the conversion. Particular the Cutscenes will take their "additional" time.

Doing such things , like sound and graphics "optimization" could be done in parallel.

Also it will shorten the time for waiting

[+skr]

12 minutes ago, emkay said:

I'm pretty sure RENSOUP still has a lot to do with the conversion. Particular the Cutscenes will take their "additional" time.

Doing such things , like sound and graphics "optimization" could be done in parallel.

Also it will shorten the time for waiting

I think so, too. I´ve never done such a project in computer games, just can make comparisons to my day job, where we have to meet a fixed deadline for a show premiere. Taken into account, that this is a total hobby project done in his (and all contributors) spare time, I can´t point out enough how impressed I´m with the progress of this.
Seeing how focused he is to make this game as good as possible in any regard, I am gladly waiting for the final release.

[rensoup]

5 hours ago, skr said:

I totally like, when people go into theortical disussions to try figuring out a "right" solution. That might improve the final result, but there also is a danger of getting lost in details. Don´t miss the point where you say: This is done. Period.

agreed, that's why I included videos with each sfx, it's much easier to tell if it's right or not.

 

4 hours ago, skr said:

think so, too. I´ve never done such a project in computer games, just can make comparisons to my day job, where we have to meet a fixed deadline for a show premiere. Taken into account, that this is a total hobby project done in his (and all contributors) spare time, I can´t point out enough how impressed I´m with the progress of this.
Seeing how focused he is to make this game as good as possible in any regard, I am gladly waiting for the final release.

Thanks, plenty of spare time these days ?

 

[rensoup]

5 hours ago, Rybags said:

Given these are probably RMT effects or <something> that's not going to eat lots of memory, why not just pick the best 3 and have the option of which to use in a menu.  Or use the best 3 at various levels of the game.

Well, like I said before, I was going to have selectable soundbanks... having the option to select each sfx individually would be great and would take a bit too much memory for the interface unfortunately... Then I'd have to load them individually too and that would probably not be very fast.

[pseudografx]

25 minutes ago, rensoup said:

Well, like I said before, I was going to have selectable soundbanks... having the option to select each sfx individually would be great and would take a bit too much memory for the interface unfortunately... Then I'd have to load them individually too and that would probably not be very fast.

I'd rather leave this for potential "custom" versions after the game is finished. Perhaps you could then provide some tools you are using to simplify the patching process.

[rensoup]

11 minutes ago, pseudografx said:

I'd rather leave this for potential "custom" versions after the game is finished. Perhaps you could then provide some tools you are using to simplify the patching process.

It's not that simple... Every sound has to be recorded as SAPR with Altirra, that alone is impossible to automate. then it's converted to LZSS. The soundbank then has to be rebuild (reassembled) and I have to make sure it fits in it's allocated space.

 

[rensoup]

5 hours ago, emkay said:

Doing such things , like sound and graphics "optimization" could be done in parallel.

I'll just put the list up so you or anybody else can give it a try.

 

Requirements:

1. the more channels are used the slower the sfx, so I'll put the maximum number of channels that each should use between [ ].The idea is that sfx that are played very often should use less channels to avoid hammering the CPU (it shouldn't make that much of difference but I'm beign cautious)
2. each sfx should stop as soon as it's done (I record to SAPR then compress with LZSS but even blanks seem to add a little bit to the filesize). Most sfx are about 30-40 bytes long with a few taking up to 150 bytes
3. naming convention: keep the names below and add a prefix (whatever_PlateDown.rmt)

That's all I can think of, so here's the list of sounds:

 PlateDown = 0    / when walking over a plate that activates a gate [3]
 
 PlateUp = 1    / when walking over a plate that activates a gate [3]
 
 GateDown = 2    / when a gate has finished coming down slowly (I think) [3] 
 
 Splat = 5        / when falling from more than 1 row [3-4]
 
 MirrorCrack = 6    / when going through the mirror (used only once in the game?) [4]
 
 LooseCrash = 7        / a falling tile hitting the ground [2-3]
 
 Footstep = 9        / each time the prince makes a step when running [2]
 
 RaisingExit = 10    / after walking over the plate that opens the exit door [2]
 
 RaisingGate = 11    / an closed gate opening slowly (repeated as long as the gate goes up) [2]
 
 LoweringGate = 12    / an open gate coming down slowly (repeated as long as the gate goes down) [2]
 
 SmackWall = 13        / prince hitting a wall (even when making a single step) [3]
 
 Impaled = 14        / impaled on spikes (should be short as it's almost impossible to hear because the tune starts straight away) [2]
 
 GateSlam = 15        / when walking over a plate that closes a gate abruptly OR entry door closes as the player starts a new level [3]
 
 FlashMsg = 16        / when a message flashes ? not sure, never seen it? [2]
 
 SwordClash1 = 17    / when swords clash upper position, the most used sword sound [2-3]
 
 SwordClash2 = 18    / when swords clash middle position [2-3]
 
 JawsClash = 19        / the slicer sound [2-3]
 
 s_Glug = 20        / 3 glug, drinking a potion [2-3]
 
 Spikeup = 21        / sound of spikes coming out when you're close to them [2-3]
 

[emkay]

38 minutes ago, rensoup said:

 
 JawsClash = 19        / the slicer sound [2-3]
 
 

To someone special  : See?  It is really named "Jaws Clash" . 

[emkay]

hm... and there is no space for the falling sound?

 

And, well, there are positions in the game where the Prince is doing nothing, just the FX get played.

Just like when drinking, or something special has been reached (got the sword). 

So 4 channels wouldn't really hurt any gameplay.  

Most FX could be done using 2 channels. Some could be done really corny , using just one channel.

Let's see   

Edited April 19, 2020 by emkay

[rensoup]

1 hour ago, emkay said:

hm... and there is no space for the falling sound?

? there's no falling sound... at least not in the apple2/BBC version

1 hour ago, emkay said:

And, well, there are positions in the game where the Prince is doing nothing, just the FX get played.

Just like when drinking, or something special has been reached (got the sword). 

s_Glug = 20        / 3 glug, drinking a potion [2-3]

 

sure Glug could actually be 4 channels instead of 2-3

 

but "got the sword" is a music jingle, that's a different story...

 

[emkay]

15 minutes ago, rensoup said:

? there's no falling sound... at least not in the apple2/BBC version

 

 

and no possibility to add this one?

The Atari NEEDs a game with such a sound

[+skr]

2 hours ago, emkay said:

and no possibility to add this one?

The Atari NEEDs a game with such a sound

As said before, I´ve never played PoP on any platform. So I don´t care what´s in other versions or not.

But listening to emkay´s "falling aaaaaa"-Sound, I think that one would be cool, if it would be a little bit fine tuned. The end of it could need a bit more of a ramp down. But it sounds cool already.

[Wrathchild]

9 hours ago, skr said:

that one would be cool

Would disagree, leave any 'Aaaaaggghhhh' for Mission Impossible  

 

The problem for such an effect in PoP is that I shouldn't think it can 'know' if/where to start the sound as you could possible save a fall by catching a ledge or survive through having enough health.

[Jacques]

I personally would prefer something useful and functional if some memory is to spare: PAUSE and LEVEL-skip.
"Aaaaaggghhhh" can do myself anyway, especially when I can't stop to go pee or need to start from 1st level despite recent progress

Edited April 20, 2020 by Jacques

[Rybags]

Until the pause is added, get yourself one of these

 

[Jacques]

No thanks, while 8-bit Atari certainly is not, the rest of my childhood is a closed period  

[rensoup]

16 hours ago, emkay said:

and no possibility to add this one?

The Atari NEEDs a game with such a sound

You haven't even started and you already want add more stuff ? 

 

14 hours ago, skr said:

As said before, I´ve never played PoP on any platform. So I don´t care what´s in other versions or not.

But listening to emkay´s "falling aaaaaa"-Sound, I think that one would be cool, if it would be a little bit fine tuned. The end of it could need a bit more of a ramp down. But it sounds cool already.

this:

4 hours ago, Wrathchild said:

The problem for such an effect in PoP is that I shouldn't think it can 'know' if/where to start the sound as you could possible save a fall by catching a ledge or survive through having enough health.

The PC version version has it and it's clunky because it doesn't detect a fall straight away (because it's not straightfoward to implement) so it starts playing the sound and cuts it off abruptly because the player hits the ground.

In Level12 on the other hand, you call fall down several screens, so you'd have a "AAAAH" sound for a second and then nothing while the player keeps falling...

 

[emkay]

3 minutes ago, rensoup said:

You haven't even started and you already want add more stuff ? 

 

???

 

I was just asking if it is possible to add new FX , not only the changes in the library.

[rensoup]

7 minutes ago, emkay said:

???

 

I was just asking if it is possible to add new FX , not only the changes in the library.

Any added sound would require messing with the game code. In the case of a falling sound it wouldn't never work 100% unless a lot of effort was put in to make it work in all cases...  effort vs gain isn't that great for this.

[_The Doctor__]

I think all of this is getting in the way a straight forward game progress...

how about a simple save that starts you at the beginning of a level that you last had to stop playing in, all the previous states are just like a normal level change..but saved for a re-load. mostly just time left etc... not every trigger state and combination state is needed then.

 

In this way you don't lose all completed levels so far, and only need retrace the what you did in the last level you played and had your emergency call/pee/wife/whatever. This will avoid all kinds of bloat and other issues, and is a simple compromise.

 

as for the sounds... they are great as is... a minor tweak maybe, a complete change not so much.

 

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by _The Doctor__

[rensoup]

2 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said:

how about a simple save that starts you at the beginning of a level that you last had to stop playing in, all the previous states are just like a normal level change..but saved for a re-load. mostly just time left etc... not every trigger state and combination state is needed then.

That's what the BBC version had, but I ripped it out because it took to much space for what it did... You also need an option when you start the game:

start to start with a clean save

continue to continue your saved game

 

and then the user wants a cheat mode anyway... 

 

[_The Doctor__]

yeah, give a mouse a cookie and he soon wants a glass a milk, give the mouse some milk and he soon wants....

best to just work on the game and avoid all our diversions

 

did I mention how good this really is?

Edited April 20, 2020 by _The Doctor__