Retrobrite

[djrodderz]

Howdy

 

Retrobrite - has anyone had a go on here? What do you attempt to retrobrite and what was the outcome...

 

I am thinking of doing some of my Commodore computers, just wish there was a service for someone else to do it

 

[wierd_w]

8bit guy suggests using "salon cream" style peroxide gel in a ziplock bag.

 

Various other sources suggest that simply heating the plastic to a critical temperature in a stabilized water bath is sufficient as well.

[spacecadet]

Lots of people here have done it - there are threads in various sub-forums about it that have been ongoing for a while.

 

I've done it probably a dozen times, *and* I've done a bunch of semi-scientific tests masking off different parts of the same yellowed parts and using different processes to figure out what works and what doesn't. There are more myths about retrobrite out there than there is reality. That said, I did my tests a few years ago and some people have come up with newer processes since then that I have *not* tested. It is possible that there are multiple ways to make this work; I wouldn't doubt that. A *lot* of stuff seems to work; it seems like there's more that works than doesn't. It's just a question of how well, and what side effects you may get.

 

Some people say light is not required, but heat is. That is 100% not true. Heat is not required at all. Heat may work, even on its own, but it's not required. And why would you bake your plastics? I'd rather use light alone if heat is not required than the opposite.

 

Others say UV light is required; also not true. *Any* light works. Sunlight works best but that's because it's the strongest light you can get; the wavelength doesn't even matter. I've tested with both 100% UV lights and also close to 100% UV *blocking* light. Exact same result with each. (Also - both tests were done at about 50 degrees F, so heat was not a factor at all.) For all anyone knows, including me, infrared light may be the key. But probably not.

 

For a long time there was a thought that you needed a "catalyst" like oxyclean for things to get started. Also not true. All you really need is hydrogen peroxide, ie. a bleaching agent. It's not much different than bleaching your hair, which is why developer cream works.

 

8bit guy has moved on lately to putting his stuff in big tubs with just a water solution mixed with pure hydrogen peroxide, then leaving it out in the sun. I haven't tested this; I think it should work and it sure seems to for him, and he likes it because it gives even coverage. The problem is just that depending on what you're retrobrighting, you may need a really big plastic tub and a lot of water and peroxide. Given the dilution, you may need an entire bottle of peroxide to do something like a computer case.

 

For most things, I still like using developer cream and then either putting it in the sun in a ziploc bag (you can get giant ziploc bags for big items) or if your forecast is bad, just putting it under a light somewhere indoors and leaving it there for a few days. With the cream, you do need to check on it every once in a while to make sure it's still wet and sticking - that's what the cream is good for, though. And the dimmer your light and the longer you have to leave something under it, the greater the chance of speckling or other unevenness. Even cloudy conditions are usually brighter than lights you can use at home, so it's still usually best to put stuff outside. In any case, though, you should keep moving things around to make sure everything gets an equal amount of light all over.

 

After all that, there is a high likelihood that whatever you retrobrite will just re-yellow after a few years. It's not a permanent solution.

[polyex]

I have seen many classic computers ruined with streaking and blotchy retrobrite jobs. Not to mention it makes the plastic brittle. Most are quickly put up for sale on ebay. I would just leave it alone. 

[Osgeld]

On 5/7/2020 at 10:38 PM, wierd_w said:

8bit guy suggests using "salon cream" style peroxide gel in a ziplock bag.

 

Various other sources suggest that simply heating the plastic to a critical temperature in a stabilized water bath is sufficient as well.

8 bit guy is a moron and has pretty much ruined everything he has attempted until

 

Quote

8bit guy has moved on lately to putting his stuff in big tubs with just a water solution mixed with pure hydrogen peroxide, then leaving it out in the sun. I haven't tested this; I think it should work and it sure seems to for him, and he likes it because it gives even coverage. The problem is just that depending on what you're retrobrighting, you may need a really big plastic tub and a lot of water and peroxide. Given the dilution, you may need an entire bottle of peroxide to do something like a computer case.

 

yes I have been doing this for years it works fine if you have the tubs and intense sunlight. I just go to the dollar store and fill a shopping cart full of crap peroxide, and toss in a little generic oxyclean 

 

 

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For a long time there was a thought that you needed a "catalyst" like oxyclean for things to get started.

 

Never heard that one, I always read it was to boost the oxygen levels of the solution, and it does make a huge difference if you are using diluted down first aid grade peroxide. Otherwise most people go for weapons grade stuff, and laundry booster isnt going to make a difference 

 

Quote

I have seen many classic computers ruined with streaking and blotchy retrobrite jobs. Not to mention it makes the plastic brittle. Most are quickly put up for sale on ebay. I would just leave it alone. 

Yes most of those people have followed the 8 twit guy's methodology, whether knowing it or not. For a failed retrobrite job simply...

 

1. Use the strongest peroxide known to man, if you do not have to fill out anti terrorism forms its not good enough.
2. Mix it with extra crap to make the creme as thick as possible, and only do two maybe three stirs MAX 
3. Make absolutely no attempt to apply an even or smooth coat with a popsicle stick 
4. Loosely toss some plastic film on top and assume moisture can no escape
5. Toss the lot in your driveway, in Arizona, during the summer, leave unattended for 12 hours 
6. Hose the mess off, congrats, you just turned a dark grey Osborne cover in to a powdery, streaky,warped bleach white, piece of garbage 

 

I have never had any issues with streakyness or brittleness with the liquid baths, it just takes forever and a lot of liquid 

 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Osgeld

[djrodderz]

Yea I have literally been tanning them since the sun has been out the past couple of weeks

[Zoyous]

This topic is the most superstitious and non-scientific aspect of the entire retro gaming community I've found! Let's not listen to plastics engineers who advise simply repainting. Let's listen to random jokers making bizarre chemical baths and weird timetables for sunbathing their gear. Maybe they're trying to drive prices up by tricking people into ruining stuff?

[juansolo]

Doing it half-arsed is how most people end up ruining stuff. Not stripping and washing everything thoroughly before hand is hugely important. A nice even coating is important, keeping an eye on it, and washing it all off also. I've done several computers, full sets of key caps, peripherals. Where I've had instances where it's had no effect whatsoever, or the effect is mild, I've never ruined anything that's been done and some items are utterly transformed by it. As for it suddenly making the plastic brittle, I've never noticed that. A lot of old plastics become brittle with age regardless of smearing it in hair products

 

I only ever do things that look terrible in the first place however. I've never done a console because it's uniformly aged. My XL is quite yellow for example, but because it's not patchy, doesn't look bad and I won't do that. The C64 in the pics I've attached looked far worse in the flesh than it does in the first picture. Of everything I've done I've had one computer regress quickly. Most of the others still look really good. It doesn't miraculously stop the process. As someone mentioned above, painting is an option. Done that also. The machines I tend to get my hands on tend to be quite worse for wear!

 

 

Edited June 21, 2020 by juansolo

[+DrVenkman]

So, this 1200XL here? I retrobrighted it with 40vol peroxide cream conditioner over two days 3 year ago this month. The last photo was taken in late April of this year, just for the sake of complete disclosure. The other XL items are natural and have never been touched aside from surface cleaning. They are in the shot for white balance and color comparison

 

The first photo is a “before” pic taken in mid-June 2017 before I cleaned it and started retrobrighting it. The white cardboard is there for comparison.

 

 

The second photo is a comparison after I did the top for one afternoon, but before I did the bottom. I did the top again to even out the back, inside the grooves and one side that didn’t get enough direct light. 

 

 

As you can see, three years later it still looks good. Your mileage may vary.

 

[SviRu]

On 6/26/2020 at 4:14 PM, DrVenkman said:

So, this 1200XL here? I retrobrighted it with 40vol peroxide cream conditioner over two days 3 year ago this month. The last photo was taken in late April of this year, just for the sake of complete disclosure. The other XL items are natural and have never been touched aside from surface cleaning. They are in the shot for white balance and color comparison

 

The first photo is a “before” pic taken in mid-June 2017 before I cleaned it and started retrobrighting it. The white cardboard is there for comparison.

 

 

The second photo is a comparison after I did the top for one afternoon, but before I did the bottom. I did the top again to even out the back, inside the grooves and one side that didn’t get enough direct light. 

 

 

As you can see, three years later it still looks good. Your mileage may vary.

 

How would you rate the color after 3 years? Did it yellow visibly? 

[+DrVenkman]

26 minutes ago, SviRu said:

How would you rate the color after 3 years? Did it yellow visibly? 

No substantial yellowing. I did wipe down the surfaces with ArmorAll, but that’s the only protective measure I took after retrobrighting. 

[SviRu]

1 minute ago, DrVenkman said:

No substantial yellowing. I did wipe down the surfaces with ArmorAll, but that’s the only protective measure I took after retrobrighting. 

thnx. But there is a yellowing - not substantial but it still is progressing? 

[+DrVenkman]

3 minutes ago, SviRu said:

thnx. But there is a yellowing - not substantial but it still is progressing? 

 

I don’t know what you want me to say. I haven’t gone out into bright sunlight with a light meter and white balance card for comparison photos, if that’s what you mean. If you looked at it today, it would look like any non-yellowed Atari XL-series computer. 

[SviRu]

Just now, DrVenkman said:

 

I don’t know what you want me to say. I haven’t gone out into bright sunlight with a light meter and white balance card for comparison photos, if that’s what you mean. If you looked at it today, it would look like any non-yellowed Atari XL-series computer. 

Well you can clearly see if it is yellowed or not. I assume it is not after your reply.