Sophia 2 - improved GTIA replacement

[Beeblebrox]

57 minutes ago, Jboner1058 said:

What is the name of this connector? Looking to do an external video box but need to cut the cable and roll them up to fit through the hole

See a few posts above:

 

 

[Jboner1058]

Thanks!

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Got a strange issue that perhaps a Dev on the Sophia can shed some light on? I just installed my Sophia 2 into my 5200 today and discovered that it does NOT play well with my BackBit PRO flash cart. Specifically what happens is that the BBpro will start up and I can see the menu screen no problem through the Sophia output. But as soon as I select any games from the menu, the BBpro does a load and reset to start up with the game, but when this happens the video output from the Sophia completely tanks. It is like the sync is lost?

 

I wired and configured the Sophia 2 for VGA output in this case. If I connect up the composite or s-video I also have on this console, I can see that the BBPro is loading up the game just fine and I can see it from those outputs. But the VGA signal just keeps flashing like it can't sync.

 

If I use an actual cartridge or my Atarimax, it all works just fine without the video dropping out. I did reach out to @evietron about this, but she is under the impression that the issue is something to do with how the Sophia is handling the reset process that the BBpro does differently from an actual GTIA and so the issue is the Sophia needing to be updated to match the GTIA reset behavior properly? I did ask if she could provide more specifics about it, but I believe what I stated is the jist of what she was trying to say.

 

So, anyone else got a Sophia 2 in their 5200 setup for VGA output and able to use it with a BBpro flash cart?

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Okay, in doing some more testing I've found something interesting that might help others that are part of the Sophia dev have some ideas? 

 

I've found out that when I chose a game from the BBPro, the BBpro is initiating a reset to the system and then starts up the game. In the case of my 4 port, this is done by adding a wire from the unused pin28 off the cartridge port back to the reset pin 13 on the 4050 IC. There is a jumper on the BBpro adapter that I set to enable this soft reset mode. Without this mod, the 4 port 5200 requires a reset wire to be attached off pin 13 of the 4050 and then plugged into the cartridge adapter. This is to allow the BBPro's button to reset back to game select menu. The 2 port 5200s do NOT require this modification since the BBPro is designed to do a hard reset on the 2 ports by interrupting the input DC voltage that comes from the DC power jack since on the 2 port models, that runs active to the cartridge port at all times for the VCS adapters to work and get power. 

 

So, here is the interesting bit. When the sophia output essentially goes blank after choosing a game, I'm still able to see what the 5200 is doing by using one of my other outputs like s-video from the UAV. I can see the that system did reset normally and is playing the game that I chose. If I run the configuration program for the Sophia when in this blank output state, the config program comes up showing me that the Sophia is back on default settings with the 720x480 resolution and DVI as the output? If I navifate the config program and change the output from DVI back to VGA and then press reset on the controller, the sophia output comes back up! But this cycle repeats whenever I chose a game from the BBpro in that the Sophia is getting reset back to default settings it seems.

 

Now the interesting part is that the settings are only temporary because if I don't run the configuration program during the blank screen state, and instead just power the console off/on, then the Sophia output comes up and works again. So it seems this default reset on the Sophia when choosing a game on the BBpro isn't actually saving that change but obviously enough to switch the outputs? 

 

I'm going to test if this is what is happening later as I soldered wiring off the bottom of the Sophia output to my VGA vs cutting the ribbon cable and connector set. As a result, i can plug that connector and ribbon set into place and connect the DVI output PCB. If I'm right on this, my guess is that the output will swap from VGA and then to DVI when the BBPro initiates the system reset to start a game.

 

But even if that does work and confirm what is happening... how does that get avoided?

 

[Rybags]

I don't know why a hardware Reset should bother the Sophia.

On XL and XE it receives the reset when you press the Reset key and comes back just fine.

All I can think of is possibly your cartridge hits a certain register combination on Sophia which screws up the video.

But by design this shouldn't happen by accident.

[woj]

Precisely what Rybags says, the fact that you see temporary (incompatible) Sophia setting strongly suggests that the reset procedure writes something to one of the GTIA registers that are mapped to Sophia settings. They are not permanent because it takes a bit more "proper" register values to cause the config to be permanently saved. In some past related posts simius diagnosed one of the programs which just wrote $FF to one of the registers out of laziness of the programmer, and that included the reserved / Sophia parts. There is probably no way around it apart from fixing the cart's firmware to behave.

 

EDIT: My guess - the game loading procedure tries to programmatically reset GTIA to leave it in a clean state for the loaded game (I do not know the cart in question, but I presume it has some nicer looking GUI).

Edited September 3 by woj

[+-^CrossBow^-]

2 minutes ago, woj said:

Precisely what Rybags says, the fact that you see temporary (incompatible) Sophia setting strongly suggests that the reset procedure writes something to one of the GTIA registers that are mapped to Sophia settings. They are not permanent because it takes a bit more "proper" register values to cause the config to be permanently saved. In some past related posts simius diagnosed one of the programs which just wrote $FF to one of the registers out of laziness of the programmer, and that included the reserved / Sophia parts. There is probably no way around it apart from fixing the cart's firmware to behave.

I was figuring something similar, but then the dev of the flash cart states that the Sophia might need a FW change so it follows proper resets of an actual GTIA or at least that is how it was originally worded to me when I first reported the issue in the BackBit forums. 

 

I get it that there will be finger pointing on this, but what is needed is to at least find what the cause might be and if it can't be addressed or fixed easily, then a notice of incompatibility needs to be added by both parties so that potential buyers are aware of a possible issue. There will be folks that might want a Sophia in their setups but already have a BBpro that could be problematic and they need to know. Or...those with a Sophia already in place may want a BBpro setup and need to know from that side as well.

 

I suppose this should fall into the 5200 section since that is the console specifically being dealt with here. But this is really the only Sophia thread that goes into details on things. It would be nice to know if the newer AtariMax carts that now have a reset back to game menu button on them work properly or if they too might have a similar issue? 

 

 

[dhoggan]

On 8/30/2024 at 7:26 PM, dhoggan said:

I've opted for a HP E190i - it's a non widescreen 1280x1024 display. I had the 24" widescreen version lying around and that has no issues with the 50Hz coming out of the Sophia2 so I'm hoping the 19" 5:4 will be the same. From the spec sheets, they appears to have the same VSync support. Also it was about £35 with no marks/scratches and one year RTB warranty so can't really grumble . I would have simply stick with the widescreen display but it bugs me to have a 4:3 or a 5:4 on a widescreen display, even if you can preserve aspect ratio.

 

I'll post back here it I have success with it.

Just to confirm that the HP E190i 1280x1024 works a treat at 50Hz here in the UK where we're used to 60Hz. Image it pin sharp - it's my photo that shaky! Used the onscreen menu to confirm 50 Hz. May help another UK user in the future...

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Confiirmed that when I have both VGA and DVI connected up. I initially ONLY have VGA output as I expect and have the sophia configured for. Soon as I choose a game or even the Sophia configuration program from the BBPro, it reverts over to the DVI output automatically as I can then see the output on the DVI connection to a second monitor. If I power cycle the console and touch nothing, then the VGA comes back up.

 

If I go ahead and go into the configuration program when it switches to DVI, and switch it back to VGA, then I'm able to see both DVI and VGA at the same time? But when I reboot, back to VGA only as expected. So it does seem that something from the BBPro is causing the Sophia to revert to DVI mode temporarily.

 

I will now remove the soft reset function from the BBPro and not have any reset wires in place. Although I think it might NOT work properly at all without some means to reset the console. But will report back.

 

 

[+scorpio_ny]

53 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Confiirmed that when I have both VGA and DVI connected up. I initially ONLY have VGA output as I expect and have the sophia configured for. Soon as I choose a game or even the Sophia configuration program from the BBPro, it reverts over to the DVI output automatically as I can then see the output on the DVI connection to a second monitor. If I power cycle the console and touch nothing, then the VGA comes back up.

 

If I go ahead and go into the configuration program when it switches to DVI, and switch it back to VGA, then I'm able to see both DVI and VGA at the same time? But when I reboot, back to VGA only as expected. So it does seem that something from the BBPro is causing the Sophia to revert to DVI mode temporarily.

 

I will now remove the soft reset function from the BBPro and not have any reset wires in place. Although I think it might NOT work properly at all without some means to reset the console. But will report back.

 

Hi @-^CrossBow^-,

 

Maybe the Backbit Pro is setting registers that Sophia uses for flagging the video output. See  this section:

Maybe Evie can take a look at this to see if this is the cause.

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

12 hours ago, scorpio_ny said:

Hi @-^CrossBow^-,

 

Maybe the Backbit Pro is setting registers that Sophia uses for flagging the video output. See  this section:

Maybe Evie can take a look at this to see if this is the cause.

 

She took a look and confirmed she was writing to some of the special registers. She released a dev build FW release in her forums and I've already tested it. It does indeed now work properly. I'm going to swap my console back over to using the soft reset method as I feel it is a safer way to handle things with the cartridge and the console. I don't expect that method to cause any differences but obviously will report back if it does.

 

[+scorpio_ny]

9 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

She took a look and confirmed she was writing to some of the special registers. She released a dev build FW release in her forums and I've already tested it. It does indeed now work properly. I'm going to swap my console back over to using the soft reset method as I feel it is a safer way to handle things with the cartridge and the console. I don't expect that method to cause any differences but obviously will report back if it does.

 

Awesome! Definitely keep us posted!

Theoretically, this should also prevent similar issues using the Backbit Pro with an Atari 8-bit that has Sophia 2 installed.

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

The soft reset method that uses the unused spare pin 28 off the cartridge port is also working just fine. So, yeah... I think she can make it an official FW release for those of us using the BBPro. That said, I don't know if the code changes she made are only on the 5200 side or if she migrated that to the 8-bit stuff also as she does offer an adapter for the Atari 8-bits. I have it, but the VBXE doesn't have any issues with the cart and that is what I've got installed into my 130xe.

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

15 hours ago, scorpio_ny said:

Awesome! Definitely keep us posted!

Theoretically, this should also prevent similar issues using the Backbit Pro with an Atari 8-bit that has Sophia 2 installed.

 

I did mention to @evietron about the 8-bits as well and she says she is going to migrate the changes to the 8-bit side of her BBPro code as well and those changes will be part of the next official FW release. Amazing support from her on the BBPro and from the rest of you here in the 8-bit sections as well for knowing essentially where the problem might be happening.

 

[Jboner1058]

On 9/15/2023 at 3:56 AM, Dinadan67 said:

I just connected my Commodore 1084 monitor to check the settings:

 

what software are you running to see this menu?

 

[Dinadan67]

The tool is sconf.xex from this post: 

 

[nasty niff]

Have two sophia 2 boards, one rev d.

this rev d won't sync to my monitor, only works at 576p. yes, I have tried other monitors and a 4k TV, same problem. Other Sophia rev c works perfectly on all monitors and TVs and any resolution i select.

Anyone help? Thanks

https://www.instagram.com/p/C_xlNvYtM25/

 

video here. wont load via atariage

 

Edited September 11 by nasty niff
video not working

[Beeblebrox]

52 minutes ago, nasty niff said:

 

Have two sophia 2 boards, one rev d.

this rev d won't sync to my monitor, only works at 576p. yes, I have tried other monitors and a 4k TV, same problem. Other Sophia rev c works perfectly on all monitors and TVs and any resolution i select.

Anyone help? Thanks

https://www.instagram.com/p/C_xlNvYtM25/

 

video here. wont load via atariage

 

the video you linked to is too small so can't really see.

 

Have you tried running the Sophia2 config software whilst connected to AV composite and select the resolution to test, press ctrl and X to save, and switch to DVi to see if works. 

 

True, in U1MB with the sophia2 plugin it should technically be the same, but I am suggesting using the sophia2 config software just in case.

 

Also, have you got the correct settings set for the other atributes, (RGB, sync, etc). I can't really tell from the video of the U1MB bios as too small.

 

The sofia2 config software is linked a few posts above. Here is what it looks like:

 

 

 

Edited September 11 by Beeblebrox

[nasty niff]

tried all settings and used sofia config, still the same issue.

the problem seems to the sophia as my rev c sophia works perfect on all tvs and monitors and any resolution i choose

Edited September 11 by nasty niff

[Simius]

Sophia rev.C is not configurable. How do you choose the resolution? 

[nasty niff]

1 minute ago, Simius said:

Sophia rev.C is not configurable. How do you choose the resolution? 

rev c works perfect , configured in u1mb plugin. rev d is the problem

Edited September 11 by nasty niff

[Simius]

Take a picture of both boards.

[nasty niff]

1 minute ago, Simius said:

Take a picture of both boards.

 

[nasty niff]

Top board rev c, works perfect

[_The Doctor__]

5 things of interest.

7123 lower right is is the tweaked leg ok?

to the right of the red connector, double check components, are they correct?

directly below those just below the pin row, are the components clean and clear of flecks/shorts? The brown and two black if that helps

is the device properly programmed? maybe a cable and re-do is in order?

if all else is verified and good, that leaves the BGA work possibly having hidden issues. cold, cracked, flecks etc. (this might be evident if the board has pressure applied to the BGA chip in different locations and or slight twist pressure in each direction, if it starts to show some signs of life as you cycle power while prodding could be there.

could try high pressure flood of cleaner and air under he bga chip if it's a fleck and there is some slight gap as a hail mary

Edited September 11 by _The Doctor__