aftyde Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Hi All, tinkering with MAME - and can't seem to get it to make a quote ('"') on my laptop keyboard running mame under Linux. Anyone know where I can find a keyboard map? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+arcadeshopper Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Hi All, tinkering with MAME - and can't seem to get it to make a quote ('"') on my laptop keyboard running mame under Linux. Anyone know where I can find a keyboard map? It's the same as the ti alt p (alt is fctn)If you switch to natural keyboard mode it will use the PC layoutSent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aftyde Posted August 17, 2020 Author Share Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) Wow this is going to be tough to love... Edited August 17, 2020 by aftyde Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, aftyde said: Wow this is going to be tough to love... Human mind is so flexible ... MAME's natural keyboard mode can be helpful when you stay with standard characters, but it has several disadvantages, which is why I actually never use it and instead learned the mapping. Normal ASCII characters are correctly mapped according to the PC keyboard layout. The natural keyboard has a noticeable delay. None of the CTRL sequences work, because they do not produce a PC character. Some of the FCTN sequences work, but not all. For instance, FCTN-ESDX do not work; you have to use the arrow keys. FCTN-2..9 is mapped to F2-F9. F1 does not work; instead, the Del key is mapped to FCTN-1. I don't know who wanted it that way; maybe I should remap it to F1. F12 is QUIT FCTN sequences that map to a non-printable character are not available. MAME's emulated keyboard mode maps single PC keys to single TI keys. Hence, key sequences on the TI must be pressed on the PC in the same way. Since the double quote on the TI requires you to press FCTN and P, you must press the respective two keys on the PC as well, typically Alt for FCTN and P for P. Edited August 17, 2020 by mizapf 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 There's a nice keyboard map over at mainbyte.com. Scroll right to the bottom of this page: http://www.mainbyte.com/ti99/howto/classic99.html 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 (edited) Looks good, although for non-US keyboards there are a lot more key mappings to consider. (For instance, on the German keyboard the "(" is Shift-8, and ")" is Shift-9, which is a particularly "funny" twist.) Maybe I'll set up another one that is more complete. Edited August 18, 2020 by mizapf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Even when using the TI keyboard mapping, those keys still move? Classic99 has the opposite problem, I thought I was honoring the local keyboard layout but the keys /don't/ move around like they should! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 The problem with non-US keyboards is that we have kind of a double-map: TI keyboard / PC keyboard, and US / DE. In the emulated mode, MAME takes the raw keyboard scan code (to be able to process all keys, including the modifiers). Most locations of the keys on the TI keyboard match the US PC keyboard, but non-US keyboards have different keycaps, while still producing the same scancode for the same location on the keyboard. For instance, the shifted row of characters (above the numbers 1-9, 0) is on my DE keyboard: !"§$%&/()= (shift-1, shift-2, ... shift-0). That takes quite some time to learn the map. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Just for my own understanding, since you're using scancodes, the keys do NOT move, only the character printed on the keycap? In that case the map image should still be valid? .. unless you are noting that the punctuation /not/ shown on the map is kind of important too. To which I say "aahhhh... yes. Right." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Yes, the problem is that in this map, a lot of keys are not indicated because they already match the US keymap. For a French or German or other national keyboard, this is only partly helpful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 I tried to draw a map of the MAME keys; there are some more in partial mode, but they are not effective for the TI emulation. Note that the partial mode almost works for the TI emulation, except for the P key which is set to pause. You can, of course, redefine that key to any other key, e.g. "Pause". (I don't know why this is not done in the MAME core just that way, maybe they consider other keyboards that do not have that many keys.) I also add the ODG file so that you may adapt it to your needs. keyboard_map.odg 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 To be precise, as this sounds ambiguous to me on second sight - the orange marked functions are available in partial mode; there are many more that are not effective and hence not shown. As said, for the TI console you can actually stay in the partial mode, but you have to relocate the pause key in the OSD menu ("Input (General) / User interface / Pause (fourth entry from the top)": Press delete, then return, then the desired key). For the Geneve, the partial mode is not useful, since it takes away too many keys (in particular the Fx keys and the Esc); you have to use the full mode. As this different handling confuses me, and unintentionally pressing Esc in partial mode exits the emulation, I usually use the full mode for the TI as well (just to avoid that mental switch). The "Alpha non-toggle" is a key I added to the map to be able to connect my TI-99/4A keyboard as a USB keyboard so that I can use the Alpha Lock key. One more word on Alpha Lock: I usually relocate the Alpha Lock key from Caps Lock to somewhere else, e.g. the Win key between Ctrl and Alt left. The reason is that MAME saves the state of the key on the last exit, so when you had Alpha lock on, it is again on when you start the next time. This means that you have to make sure that Caps Lock is in the same state as the Alpha Lock key before starting, or you will get an inverted case. And when you leave the emulation you have to remember to turn Caps Lock off again, or you may run into some unexpected trouble during your ordinary PC work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shift838 Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 On 8/28/2020 at 1:42 PM, mizapf said: I tried to draw a map of the MAME keys; there are some more in partial mode, but they are not effective for the TI emulation. Note that the partial mode almost works for the TI emulation, except for the P key which is set to pause. You can, of course, redefine that key to any other key, e.g. "Pause". (I don't know why this is not done in the MAME core just that way, maybe they consider other keyboards that do not have that many keys.) I also add the ODG file so that you may adapt it to your needs. keyboard_map.odg 26.48 kB · 8 downloads the Pause key, is it just configured within the INI file of MAME ? If so, in my experience when executing MAME from a command line the INI file is not loaded. I found that to be when I was working on remapping of the UI Mode key, that if I executed it from a command line or batch file the UI Mode key was still defaulted to Scroll Lock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 The key mappings can be changed in the on-screen display menu, "Input (this machine)". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shift838 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 5 hours ago, mizapf said: The key mappings can be changed in the on-screen display menu, "Input (this machine)". I looked for the PAUSE key in the "Input (this machine)" and did not see it. Is there a way to change it like we do for the -uikeymode switch at a command line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 Sorry, my bad. It is in "Input (general)"/"User Interface". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shift838 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 7 hours ago, mizapf said: Sorry, my bad. It is in "Input (general)"/"User Interface". Found it, put can it be changed from a command line right off that bat when launching mame? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 I don't think you can provide it in the command line. But these changes go into the file cfg/ti99_4a.cfg. Have a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhataKowinkydink Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 On 8/17/2020 at 2:38 PM, mizapf said: MAME's natural keyboard mode can be helpful when you stay with standard characters, but it has several disadvantages, which is why I actually never use it and instead learned the mapping. .... Some of the FCTN sequences work, but not all. For instance, FCTN-ESDX do not work; you have to use the arrow keys. FCTN-2..9 is mapped to F2-F9. F1 does not work; instead, the Del key is mapped to FCTN-1. I don't know who wanted it that way; maybe I should remap it to F1. F12 is QUIT FCTN sequences that map to a non-printable character are not available. i prefer the emulated keyboard myself, however, I would really like to have the PC function keys mapped to the TI's (FCTN+Number) since it is a modern keyboard I'm using and might as well take advantage of keys that are there (at that IMHO should have been there on the real TI). Is it possible to make use of the F# keys in "emulated" keyboard mode? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 You mean F1 as FCTN-1? No, the MAME core would have to map a single keypress (F1) to two keys (FCTN and 1). This is only possible in the "natural keyboard" mode; the emulated mode maps one key on the keyboard to exactly one input bit. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhataKowinkydink Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 6 hours ago, mizapf said: You mean F1 as FCTN-1? No, the MAME core would have to map a single keypress (F1) to two keys (FCTN and 1). This is only possible in the "natural keyboard" mode; the emulated mode maps one key on the keyboard to exactly one input bit. Precisely. I was afraid that would be the case - would a hybrid mode be possible? (perhaps get the best of both worlds) And, could F1 be implemented in "natural" mode? It seems to me it might as well be, considering it appears to be some old hold-over. Anyway, thanks for the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Not likely. The emulated mode emulates the individual switches of the keyboard by mapping a PC key to each of them. The natural mode is a completely different approach, where the pressed PC key is mapped to a (possible multi-key) sequence that is posted into a queue and then read by a constant rate. I'm sorry, but I'm not the responsible person for the input processing of the MAME core, so this is all I can say. As I once said, the natural mode has so severe disadvantages that it is not a real option for me; see also https://www.ninermame.org/using/keyboard/naturalkeys 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhataKowinkydink Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 9 minutes ago, mizapf said: As I once said, the natural mode has so severe disadvantages I noticed the latency issue with it for sure - not very pretty. I mostly like the emulated keyboard, and I know the TI keyboard well enough that I rarely need to rely on any cheat sheet. But it should would be nice to have proper function keys in emulated mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted December 10, 2022 Share Posted December 10, 2022 After some hours of working with the emulated keyboard, I desperately tried to enter a quote on the PC desktop until I noticed I kept pressing AltGr-P instead of the proper quote key. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkoh Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 Hey guys, I have a bartop arcade with a control panel with an iPac2 using MAME behind Attract Mode. Everything's working fine and I made macros for 'back' and 'redo' and all that, but I have an issue. AFAIK, all games (that I've tested) work properly but Donkey Kong. The joystick/KB does not move him anywhere. If I hold right/left and jump, he jumps right/left, just won't walk. If I switch to Natural KB everything works normally. Am I missing a setting? A ROM error? Is there a setting I can apply to only this ROM somehow? TIA, dk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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