Announcing - Gravitic Mines

[Machine]

1 hour ago, rogneda said:

Maybe the game would be a little bit easier (e.g. more playable for non super-duper experienced gamers) if it didn't have to be an exact opposite to the previous movement? I mean to allow for a certain tolerance that matches what you can actually distinguish visually by looking at the screen.

 

PS. This is just a hint from a less experienced player than maybe you, and your playtesters. (Also including the Bubsy playtesters )

 

 

If you take the time to play (and master) the training levels, you will have complete control of the ship. Take some time and master them .....

[rogneda]

14 minutes ago, Machine said:

 

If you take the time to play (and master) the training levels, you will have complete control of the ship. Take some time and master them .....

This strange phenomenon also happened for me on one of the training levels (I think the 2nd or the 3rd one in the demo) It seems that I am just going straight down from quite high above the landing pad (on track to hit it just in the middle), I don't change the angle, I just touch the thrust button a few times to slow down the fall. Suddenly when I get very close to the landing pad, the ship starts to drift slowly to the left. Because of that, I land on the intersection between the landing pad and the ground (to the left) Sometimes when this happens, the ship bounces up (from the ground), and to the right, then a very slow oscillation starts between the left and right sides of the landing pad, and the ship bounces a little bit up above the landing pad each time. The strength of the oscillation seems to decrease over time, but my ship explodes before the oscillation completely stops.

Edited May 24, 2022 by rogneda

[agradeneu]

19 minutes ago, rogneda said:

This strange phenomenon also happened for me on one of the training levels (I think the 2nd or the 3rd one in the demo) It seems that I am just going straight down from quite high above the landing pad (on track to hit it just in the middle), I don't change the angle, I just touch the thrust button a few times to slow down the fall. Suddenly when I get very close to the landing pad, the ship starts to drift slowly to the left. Because of that, I land on the intersection between the landing pad and the ground (to the left) Sometimes when this happens, the ship bounces up (from the ground), and to the right, then a very slow oscillation starts between the left and right sides of the landing pad, and the ship bounces a little bit up above the landing pad each time. The strength of the oscillation seems to decrease over time, but my ship explodes before the oscillation completely stops.

 

 

I put a 1000 hours into the game, never was aware of that lol.

 

 It perfectly stays on it's vector, when its unaffected by surroundings like gravity mines, waterfalls etc.

 

Should I make a video for you?

 

Ok, take into account that side inertia does not wear off, but the vector is very predictable and consistant. 

 

Actually there is a training leve with 2 gravity mines, green and red, near the home pad, so that explains it. 

I hope you take that into account form now on.

 

Edited May 24, 2022 by agradeneu

[rogneda]

6 minutes ago, agradeneu said:

 

 

I put a 1000 hours into the game, never was aware of that lol.

 

 It perfectly stays on it's vector, when its unaffected by surroundings like gravity mines, waterfalls etc.

 

Should I make a video for you?

 

Try hitting the landingpad on the side on a real level when going straight down, I am quite certain that this triggered a slow oscillation. I know for sure that this happened a few times for me when I thought I was going straight down toward the lading pad, but the ship started to drift slowly to the left just above the landing pad. Note that I didn't use the auto alignment feature any of these times, because it seems to work as expected if you use the auto alignment feature, e.g. you get the perfect counter angle that @CyranoJ tells me I must find, however, I can never get to that movement manually (e.g. the ship keeps going straight down for a while before the drift starts)

[agradeneu]

1 minute ago, rogneda said:

Try hitting the landingpad on the side on a real level when going straight down, I am quite certain that this triggered a slow oscillation. I know for sure that this happened a few times for me when I thought I was going straight down toward the lading pad, but the ship started to drift slowly to the left just above the landing pad. Note that I didn't use the auto alignment feature any of these times, because it seems to work as expected if you use the auto alignment feature, e.g. you get the perfect counter angle that @CyranoJ tells me I must find, however, I can never get to that movement manually (e.g. the ship keeps going straight down for a while before the drift starts)

You must be a bit more specific about what level you mean!

 

I still believe you are ignoring the gravity mines. Because they do this kind of oscillation.

[rogneda]

7 minutes ago, agradeneu said:

You must be a bit more specific about what level you mean!

 

I still believe you are ignoring the gravity mines. Because they do this kind of oscillation.

The drift I seem to get about 30% of the time when I attempt to align manually straight downwards toward the landing pad, on any level (however, this never happens when I use the auto alignment feature) It seems that the ship is going straight downwards for quite some time before it starts to drift).

The oscillation I belive I got (when aligning using the manual method described above, and missed the pad slightly to the left) at the start pad of the second ice level in the demo, because I was going for a re-charge, but exploded instead because of this.

Edited May 24, 2022 by rogneda

[agradeneu]

6 minutes ago, rogneda said:

The drift I seem to get about 30% of the time when I attempt to align manually straight downwards toward the landing pad, on any level (however, this never happens when I use the auto alignment feature) It seems that the ship is going straight downwards for quite some time before it starts yo drift).

The oscillation I belive I got (when aligning using the manual method described above, and missed the pad slightly to the left) at the start pad of the second ice level in the demo, because I was going for a re-charge, but exploded instead because of this.

When you fly the ship left and right,  you will have some minimal side inertia. It does not wear off. I think you can only perfectly balance it with the side thrusters. 

However, the slow drift is consistant and does not happen out of the blue. 

 

at the start of a level, try going up and down on a landing pad without applying side inertia. It stays on its vector. 

 

Aynway, I disagree that this minimal inertia has a great impact on difficulty. 

Edited May 24, 2022 by agradeneu

[rogneda]

32 minutes ago, agradeneu said:

When you fly the ship left and right,  you will have some minimal side inertia. It does not wear off. I think you can only perfectly balance it with the side thrusters. 

However, the slow drift is consistant and does not happen out of the blue. 

 

at the start of a level, try going up and down on a landing pad without applying side inertia. It stays on its vector. 

Yes, I never used the side thrusters, because I don't have the ProPad. I just try to find a straight downward trajectory using rotation and (counter)thrust (letting gravity do the work). The ship seems to be falling in a straight line for quite some time before the drift starts (close to the ground), then I have very little time to compensate for that when I almost hit the ground (then I have to go up again and repeat the procedure) Try playing without side thrusters, and auto alignment for a while and see if you have the same experience?

 

I just tried Gravitar, and Thrust for a few mintutes because these games are very difficult, but at least I could eventually learn how to fall straight down in these games (and they don't have side thruster, nor autoalign features) Or at least, if there was a side drift in these games, you could see it immediately and estimate the correct trajectory for landing. However, in Gravitic Mines, you think you are going straight downwards, but then all of a sudden the ship starts to drift sideways so you have very small chances to recalculate, or compensate. Then this landing pad oscillation may occur, which makes you even more frustrated.

Edited May 24, 2022 by rogneda

[agradeneu]

29 minutes ago, rogneda said:

Yes, I never used the side thrusters, because I don't have the ProPad. I just try to find a straight downward trajectory using rotation and (counter)thrust (letting gravity do the work). The ship seems to be falling in a straight line for quite some time before the drift starts (close to the ground), then I have very little time to compensate for that when I almost hit the ground (then I have to go up again and repeat the procedure) Try playing without side thrusters, and auto alignment for a while and see if you have the same experience?

 

I just tried Gravitar, and Thrust for a few mintutes because these games are very difficult, but at least I could eventually learn how to fall straight down in these games (and they don't have side thruster, nor autoalign features) Or at least, if there was a side drift in these games, you could see it immediately and estimate the correct trajectory for landing. However, in Gravitic Mines, you think you are going straight downwards, but then all of a sudden the ship starts to drift sideways so you have very small chances to recalculate, or compensate. Then this landing pad oscillation may occur, which makes you even more frustrated.

 

No, there is not a sudden drift. Its absolutely consistant. I think you are still not taking the gravity mines into account. They push or pull the ship if you cross their range.

 

Look, we tested this game over a year with more than 7 people, one being a Gravitar veteran. (I played Gravitar myself but found it much harder than our game).

It would have been noticed.

Edited May 24, 2022 by agradeneu

[rogneda]

29 minutes ago, agradeneu said:

No, there is not a sudden drift. Its absolutely consistant

What I think may be happening in this game is that the calculations have to high precision compared to the resolution of the screen. So the downward trajectory is almost completely straight, but you have a very slight drift that does not show itself until you have moved quite far along the line (for me this usually happens quite close to the ground)

 

On the 8-bit precision games (like Gravitar, Thrust etc.) you probably had more limitations on the number of different line slopes, which lead to that lines that had a very small slope got aporoximated to pure vertical lines. So this lead to that you could see quite early if you had a side drift or not.

 

You probably compensate for this late drift using the side thrusters, but if you try to play without them you may get the same feeling as me, at least if you also play a little bit of Gravitar and Thrust?

 

I did get this behaviour on the training levels as well, and I assume they don't have gravity mines?

Edited May 24, 2022 by rogneda

[agradeneu]

2 minutes ago, rogneda said:

What I think may be happening in this game is that the calculations have to high precision compared to the resolution of the screen. So the downward trajectory is almost completely straight, but you have a very slight drift that does not show itself until you have moved quite far along the line (for me this usually happens quite close to the ground)

 

On the 8-bit precision games (like Gravitar, Thrust etc.) you probably had more limitations on the number of different line slopes, which lead to that lines that had a very small slope got aporoximated to pure vertical lines. So this lead to that you could see quite early if you had a side drift or not.

 

You probably compensate for this late drift using the side thrusters, but if you try to play without them you may get the same feeling as me, at least if you also play a little bit of Gravitar and Thrust.

 

I did get this behaviour on the training levels as well, and I assume they don't have gravity mines?

 

Arne, is that you? ?

 

 

 

 

[+Saturn]

I'm blazing through levels breaking and setting high scores! Doing the hard levels with zero crashes. Haven't eaten in hours (unless you count me putting my foot in my mouth earlier in the chat? Needs salt..) or been to work in days.

Cant stop playing??

[agradeneu]

Just now, Saturn said:

I'm blazing through levels breaking and setting high scores! Doing the hard levels with zero crashes. Haven't eaten in hours (unless you count me putting my foot in my mouth earlier in the chat? Needs salt..) or been to work in days.

Cant stop playing??

That is the spirit! 

 

[rogneda]

5 minutes ago, agradeneu said:

 

Arne, is that you? ?

 

 

 

 

You may laugh at me, but the 8-bit systems automatically provided a higher fault tolerance, which made it feel that you were in better control.

I know you added the side thrusters etc. to make thd game more accessible, but now it has almost become a requirement to have it (e.g. the ProPad).

Edited May 24, 2022 by rogneda

[agradeneu]

2 minutes ago, rogneda said:

You may laugh at me, but the 8-bit systems automatically provided a higher fault tolerance, which made it feel that you were in better control.

I know you added the side thrusters etc. to make thd game more accessible, but now it has almost become a requirement to have it (e.g. the ProPad).

I beat the game in all modes with a standard pad. ?

[rogneda]

1 minute ago, agradeneu said:

I beat the game in all modes with a standard pad. ?

Without using side thrusters?

[agradeneu]

Just now, rogneda said:

Without using side thrusters?

You can use sidethrusters on the standard.

 

What is your problem? 

[rogneda]

7 minutes ago, agradeneu said:

You can use sidethrusters on the standard.

 

What is your problem? 

No problem, I just thought it wouldn't be needed?

[agradeneu]

10 minutes ago, rogneda said:

No problem, I just thought it wouldn't be needed?

The demo missions should be no problem without sidethrusters. Just use auto leveling and calculate the trajectory to a landing zone.

I only use them in certain situations.

[agradeneu]

1 hour ago, agradeneu said:

When you fly the ship left and right,  you will have some minimal side inertia. It does not wear off. I think you can only perfectly balance it with the side thrusters. 

However, the slow drift is consistant and does not happen out of the blue. 

 

at the start of a level, try going up and down on a landing pad without applying side inertia. It stays on its vector. 

 

Aynway, I disagree that this minimal inertia had a great impact on difficulty. 

Hm, double post lol

Edited May 24, 2022 by agradeneu

[Gunther]

 

[+Saturn]

Hmm the cart in the video is clear. Guess i need to open my other GM box and take a peek.

[+ZeroPage Homebrew]

Just bought some Jaguar Pro Controllers for Gravitic Mines for when we play it next on stream. ? It seems those shoulder buttons are going to come in very handy.

 

- James

[+CyranoJ]

4 hours ago, Saturn said:

I'm blazing through levels breaking and setting high scores! Doing the hard levels with zero crashes. Haven't eaten in hours (unless you count me putting my foot in my mouth earlier in the chat? Needs salt..) or been to work in days.

Cant stop playing??

Yeah, I'm going to have a run through this weekend. Will post some times myself

 

1 hour ago, ZeroPage Homebrew said:

Just bought some Jaguar Pro Controllers for Gravitic Mines for when we play it next on stream. ? It seems those shoulder buttons are going to come in very handy.

 

- James

They are indeed.  You can side thrust on a standard pad, but deffo recommend a pro controller!  We added rotary by request, but 200% do not recommend using it!

 

6 hours ago, Machine said:

If you take the time to play (and master) the training levels, you will have complete control of the ship. Take some time and master them .....

 

Absolutely! 

 

2 hours ago, Gunther said:

 

Awesome! Thank you

[+Saturn]

Spent all day playing, beat the Pilot difficulty levels and earned a ton of achievements!

This game is awesome. The Ace levels will have to wait for another day but can't wait to tear into them again..