Computers in grade school/high school?

[cedropoole]

In Jr. college we did have access to a Babbage Difference Machine though

Edited February 10, 2021 by cedropoole

[ClausB]

On 2/10/2021 at 1:58 PM, cedropoole said:

In Jr. college we did have access to a Babbage Difference Machine though

How old ARE you?

[cedropoole]

In Jr. college we did have access to a Baggae Difference Machine though

[cedropoole]

I'm 969 years old. They call me Methuselah...

[0078265317]

I think we had some 486s.  But we also had lots of macs.  Centris 660av I think it was.  This was 1990-94.

[0078265317]

Oh and we had some 2sis also.  But in the room I learned typng it was apple 2es I think.  And private school 1984-91 also 2es I think.  Software was all 5.25 floppys.

[Turbo-Torch]

First computer to show up in my shitty private Catholic school was a single Commodore 64 with a color monitor.  I was in 8th grade, so this was 1983.  That one computer got its very own private classroom.  The day it arrived, each class (1st to 8th) got to visit and view it in awe as a special event.  No one was ever allowed to actually touch the damn thing and we were constantly reminded how lucky we were to have it.  The upper grades had "computer classes" in that room where we'd get to watch the psychotic bitch 7th grade teacher try and do things with it.

By that time, I already had my Model III upgraded with full 48K, an RS232, a DC-Modem I and was playing Black Dragon on Compuserve.

 

1984 was the start 9th grade at my awesome public high school.  Orientation was about 2 weeks before school started and we were allowed to roam around and explore.  I remember walking into one classroom and there were DOZENS of Model III systems.  Go around a corner into another room and it was full of real IBMs with amber monitors!

I never did have a class with the Model IIIs, but I did have Pascal programming and Word Processing on the IBMs.  The XTs were upgraded to AT models with hard drives and color monitors by my junior year.  The teachers were also phenomenal, they knew the systems and software inside and out.

 

Now going off topic, that Catholic grade school was a like a business that thought it was so big it couldn't fail (sort of like Atari in its heyday).  If one kid left, there was a replacement the next day because there was a waiting line to get in.  7 masses on the weekend and each was a full house.  Big fund raising carnival every July that took over part of the downtown area.  Insane tuition cost.  The cash was rolling in and they could do no wrong!  Yet, we had senile nuns and mentally disturbed women teachers who couldn't hack it in a real school.  Some of our text books were literally from the 50s and 60s.  Our history books didn't include anything about Vietnam or the moon landing, because neither happened yet.  The playground was a bare asphalt parking lot, not so much as one swingset.  Then to get one cheap ass computer and told how lucky we were.

Karma caught up.  After 10 years my generation was starting families and no one in the right mind would send their kids there. Attendance dropped so bad in the mid 90s, they started combining 3 grades in one room.  Today, one classroom (out of over 20) is used as a preschool and that's it...about 98% of the school is vacant.

They often hire my company to do work and I love taking photos.  It now looks like something out of a Nightmare on Elm Street movie mixed with Chernobyl.   Garbage cans collecting water from the leaking roof, ceilings falling in along with ancient artifacts and writing on chalkboards left from nearly 2 decades ago.

 

The Commodore sat to the right of the creepy purple desk/shrine thing. Hell, it might even be in that closet lol.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nadir]

We only had a couple Apple II (maybe +?) in grade school.  I never got to use them, they were reserved for the kids with good grades.  It wasn't until Junior high that I got to use some Apple IIe computers in a small computer lab due to taking my first computer class.  In high school we had Apple IIc, IIgs, and Macs (SE?).  Never got to use the IIgs, once again reserved for the good grade kids (I was a straight C student).  IIe were for the general computer class and Macs for the programming class.

 

At home we got a PC/XT clone just about the time I started high school.  So, I ended up overall MUCH more a DOS person than anything else.  ?

[BassGuitari]

In elementary school in the early '90s, the library had Apple IIgs and IBM systems. I still remember a special class day where one of the teachers showed us a math program of some sort and explained mouses, clicking, and the rudiments of GUI environments like it was rocket science. Pretty sure that was on a Windows PS/2 system of some kind. Definitely learned typing in fourth grade on the IIgses though.

 

The fourth grade math teacher had a Commodore 64 in his room but it was never used for anything--I only remember even seeing it used once. My sixth grade math teacher had an Apple //c that we'd occasionally get to play Oregon Trail on. The last time I saw an Apple II used in class was when a dusty old //e was wheeled out on a cart for a day in Earth Science my junior year (in 2002), although there was a science classroom my freshman year ('99-'00) that had this sort of back hall that was full of retired //e systems, just stacked on the tables lining the walls. There must have been 50 of them. To contrast, at the same time, the Pub Lab got a couple of the new iMacs that had recently come out. ?

 

Despite the pervasive and enduring presence of Apple systems in my school district, though (even if in piecemeal fashion), the overwhelming bulk of computer use during my school days was on PCs. Middle school was when computer use really became more integral to school work and it became increasingly expected that we would (depending on the class) use MS Word or Excel or PowerPoint (might have been MS Works, actually! ?) for reports, presentations, and other projects.

[spacecadet]

My school had a computer lab with Apple II's. Originally II+'s and then later they added in some IIe's. That was definitely a big reason why I became an Apple II guy early on, and got interested in computers in general. I took a comp-sci class, used the Apple II's, asked my mom for an Apple II so I could do my work at home. Synergy! Apple's marketing worked.

 

[+selgus]

When I was in high school, we had time-sharing systems with a DECSYSTEMS PDP-2020 and teletype terminals. I learned MACRO-10 assembly language on that mini-computer and wrote many programs to do inter-communications between schools. We also had a CompuColor II 8080-based computer, where I wrote my first pac-man and defender clone games, in intel 8080 assembly. I think we also had a Commodore PET somewhere in a lab.

[MikeDijital777]

I grew up in Danvers Massachusetts. the K-5 when i was a kid ( 1983ish )  had the Apple IIc   I remember doing logo.... and maybe someone here knows, it was a game called Apple / Open Apple   like either an outline, or solid apple would drop and you had to press the apple or open apple keys to drop it down a hole  lol... LOVED print shop, Conan, and Chivalry,  I vaguely remember playing a text vampire game, and a text knights/castle game....  I think we did stuff in appleworks but I dont remember. 

Edited March 20, 2021 by MikeDijital777

[Reaperman]

I remember in elementary school, our computer lab had some older (at the time) apple II's, all but a few of which were color.  We mainly did LOGO drawing and oregon trail, which was fine.

 

Middle school had a neat Apple IIgs in the band room, with what google thinks is called a midi "wind controller" that looked like a space clarinet. (probably an akai or yamaha model) That was kind of neat looking.  Never saw it used.

 

Middle school shop class had an old looking robot with a serving tray looking thing which I was told didn't work.  I suspect that was a lie.  Looking at pictures it was probably a Robie Sr.

 

Then some time in there, some genius in local politics called for a "computer in every classroom" so that's exactly what they did!  Two shiny new IBM PS/2 all-in-ones at a table in the back of every classroom. We were never allowed to touch them, and in my years there, I never saw one switched on.  Way to go, mayor.

 

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Reaperman

[zzip]

On 3/19/2021 at 11:47 PM, Reaperman said:

Then some time in there, some genius in local politics called for a "computer in every classroom" so that's exactly what they did!  Two shiny new IBM PS/2 all-in-ones at a table in the back of every classroom. We were never allowed to touch them, and in my years there, I never saw one switched on.  Way to go, mayor.

Same thing I saw in my high school.  Not every classroom got a computer,  but the select ones that did, they just sat there unused most of the time.  The few times a year they did get booted up, they were used for some trivial application that I don't think the school board had in mind..    sorting a mailing list in one case.

 

Only the computers in the computer labs got used with any regularity

[Keatah]

Make sense. A computer is typically a one-on-one experience. And the multimedia capabilities of the first 8-bit machines paled in comparison to a vibrant teacher with colored chalk.

 

BTW, anyone notice a lack of 16 bit machines in schools? Oh there may have been a MAC or two here and there. But the Amiga and Atari ST were mostly absent. To me it's always been TRS-80, C=, Apple, and then PC.

 

Were the Atari ST and Amiga too delicate? Too much focused on games? Take up too much desk space?

 

[Mockduck]

I was such a little troll when I was a kid I remember back in 7th grade taking all the Apple IIe's in the "keyboarding room" and making a quick "looks like cursor prompt at the bottom of the screen" program with the response "I don't know what that is" and running it prior to leaving the lab several times in a row. I only assume the non-techie teacher ended up having to reset the computers over and over. 

[zzip]

53 minutes ago, Keatah said:

BTW, anyone notice a lack of 16 bit machines in schools? Oh there may have been a MAC or two here and there. But the Amiga and Atari ST were mostly absent. To me it's always been TRS-80, C=, Apple, and then PC.

 

Were the Atari ST and Amiga too delicate? Too much focused on games? Take up too much desk space?

I think the real question is whether Atari or Commodore were serious in chasing the education market at that time?   Didn't seem like it.  

 

My school was all Apple, and they did start getting IIgs's while I was there, not sure if they count as 16-bit machines.

[Keatah]

While I'm sure they had 16-bit educational software, the vast majority would be 8 bit. Especially that torrent of MECC stuff. The only way to classify the IIgs is 8/16 hybrid. Bastardized for sure.

 

I think the president of MECC is currently (or has been recently) engaged in preserving all the software they did. Hundreds of titles are on Asimov, and there's a more coming.

[jhd]

1 hour ago, Keatah said:

Were the Atari ST and Amiga too delicate? Too much focused on games? Take up too much desk space?

 

Speaking for the area where I grew-up, there was a serious lack of distribution. I knew only one person with an Atari ST, and no one with an Amiga. There was one local shop that sold/supported the ST and (to the best of my knowledge) no place that sold the Amiga. 

 

The single shop for the ST would have been completely overwhelmed by an order from a school board (or even a decent size school), especially as they would be called upon to handle installation and after-sales tech support. I can easily imagine them declining large orders for this reason. 

 

Assuming that there was an Amiga dealer in town, it too would have been a very small enterprise without the capacity to handle large, institutional orders.  

[Keatah]

1 hour ago, jhd said:

Speaking for the area where I grew-up, there was a serious lack of distribution. I knew only one person with an Atari ST, and no one with an Amiga. There was one local shop that sold/supported the ST and (to the best of my knowledge) no place that sold the Amiga.

About the same here. That was the 3rd most offputting factor in owning and Amiga. They just didn't penetrate the general market. Not like the Apple II or PC did.

 

There were 2 possibly 3 shops in driving distance that had Amiga & stuff. But for Apple II there were 3 places within BMX distance alone. Getting in the car gave me a choice of as much as 10 stores! And when PCs got underway in earnest there were so many I couldn't even keep track!

[zzip]

2 hours ago, jhd said:

The single shop for the ST would have been completely overwhelmed by an order from a school board (or even a decent size school), especially as they would be called upon to handle installation and after-sales tech support. I can easily imagine them declining large orders for this reason. 

 

Assuming that there was an Amiga dealer in town, it too would have been a very small enterprise without the capacity to handle large, institutional orders.  

I doubt schools go to retail shops to mass purchase computers or anything else.   If Atari or Commodore were serious at chasing the education market at that point in time, they would probably have sales reps working with the schools and have the computers delivered directly.   But I think by that time, Apple had the market wrapped up.

 

32 minutes ago, Keatah said:

There were 2 possibly 3 shops in driving distance that had Amiga & stuff. But for Apple II there were 3 places within BMX distance alone. Getting in the car gave me a choice of as much as 10 stores! And when PCs got underway in earnest there were so many I couldn't even keep track!

I remember seeing Amiga's at one of those big downtown departments stores that every city used to have before the malls mostly killed them.    Apart from that I think maybe Electronics Boutique used to have ST and Amiga?   There was also one local discount chain that never stopped stocking Atari products even after the rest did.

 

For Apple IIs,  I think they were only sold by specialty dealers?

 

Yeah PC shops popped up like mushrooms in the 90s.   But I was young and broke, so I was obsessed with getting the best deal possible.   So I usually didn't buy from the mom and pop PC shops, I turned to Computer Shopper and the weekend Computer Shows for better deals.

[Keatah]

I remember Apple II's being sold by semi-specialty shops. These shops, like Computerland, Data-Domain, Compu-Shop, or Northbrook Computers also sold things like the late-model S-100 systems and NorthStar desk systems. CP/M systems too. Probably had some Sols on display. TI was often marketed in those too. Not much different from the RadioShack computer centers, just smaller and more diverse.

 

Specialty shop or not, there were many of them within driving distance. Surprised to see them live from the late-70's into the mid-80's as they weren't busy. Not like a Gamestop or other botique shop of today.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Keatah

[MrMaddog]

5 hours ago, Keatah said:

BTW, anyone notice a lack of 16 bit machines in schools? Oh there may have been a MAC or two here and there. But the Amiga and Atari ST were mostly absent. To me it's always been TRS-80, C=, Apple, and then PC.

 

Only time the 16-bits were used for specialized college courses like ST's for MIDI music & Amigas for video production.

 

School boards will always buy Apple branded computers no matter what, so that's why my high school got all these Macs.  They were great for learning how to use "modern" applications like MS Works & Hypercard but there's a big lost of programing skills that you get from using the 8-bit computers (even someting like Logo).

 

 

[+x=usr(1536)]

8 hours ago, Keatah said:

BTW, anyone notice a lack of 16 bit machines in schools? Oh there may have been a MAC or two here and there. But the Amiga and Atari ST were mostly absent. To me it's always been TRS-80, C=, Apple, and then PC.

My school was a bit odd in that regard: in my last year there, the Apple ][+ clones in the computer lab were replaced with...  Atari STs.  Almost entirely 1040STFMs, IIRC, though I think there may have been one 520 in there somewhere.  There was also a lone //c in one of the other classrooms that turned into a Mega ST.  We're talking about maybe a dozen machines in total, so it's not like our 100% adoption of Atari STs made any sort of impact on the world of educational computing.

 

Of course, the only reason why this happened in the first place was that the head of the maths department had free rein to select the computers, and he used an ST at home

[atarian1]

The ST did make some inroads into the education market. There was something called CCC Microhost that put lots of STs into schools, but it used only software from CCC Microhost and I think there was even a special ROM that was used in place of regular TOS to prevent it from being used as a regular ST computer. I believe these are the STs that the Brewing Academy and B&C are selling as they claim they come from a school system.

 

I think Atari sold about 100,000 STs through this program, thus, they were able to achieve a whopping 1% market share in the educational computer market.