Concerto firmware thread

[+batari]

33 minutes ago, TheRealOC said:

Not yet, I only got the cart in the post this morning - but I just remember finding the setup process for the Atari Harmony cart pretty challenging, and there was an actual manual available for that cart. 

 

Is there agreement on what model of SD card are compatible with the latest firmware?

The Harmony cart (and also the Concerto cart) works out of the box and doesn't require any setup, however, some who have bought a Harmony have read the manual and followed the firmware installation procedure on a new cart before they used it. Generally this isn't necessary to get started.

 

Same with Concerto - it works out of the box. The firmware update procedure for Harmony and Concerto is essentially the same, so the Harmony manual is mostly relevant (with the only difference being the firmware file you put on the SD card during the update process.)

[Ecernosoft]

On 11/7/2022 at 7:21 PM, batari said:

The Harmony cart (and also the Concerto cart) works out of the box and doesn't require any setup, however, some who have bought a Harmony have read the manual and followed the firmware installation procedure on a new cart before they used it. Generally this isn't necessary to get started.

 

Same with Concerto - it works out of the box. The firmware update procedure for Harmony and Concerto is essentially the same, so the Harmony manual is mostly relevant (with the only difference being the firmware file you put on the SD card during the update process.)

Hmmm…

speaking of firmware, is it possible to get an upgrade for concerto so it can play 512k games like DF?

[Lord_of_Sipan]

I’ve been trying to update my firmware without much success.

 

I have an M1 Mac and the driver software for the eprom from the manufacturer isn’t compatible with apple chip macs, only intel macs. I found a version on a GitHub after some looking around that seems to load after some option adjustment but I can’t get the harmony software to detect the concerto with my Mac. Looking at devices under the list of USB ports under about this Mac the computer doesn’t seem to be detecting the concerto at all.

 

My girlfriend’s old windows laptop was able to detect the concerto and I followed the procedure to update it as well as I could. First try I would just corrupt junk like vertical yellow bars on screen. I tried again and the concerto starts but just loads a message saying “bios not detected”. I am a little unsure on when you are supposed to have the concerto connected to the 7800 during the process. Do you just connect it to the 7800 at the end and power it on or does it need power through the cartridge port during the eprom update process? Every time I do step one on the harmony application it says that the update has loaded fine 100%

 

I got the software update to work once from off of my girlfriends laptop but I had to try maybe 6 different versions of the drivers before finding one of the .bin files that worked. The only one that worked was a daily build from maybe 5 pages back in this thread.

 

I have tried 3 different micro usb cables. The concerto is detected by the laptop with all 3 and not with the Mac.

[Snogpitch]

On 7/9/2022 at 10:04 AM, Trebor said:

Use the Harmony programming software:

 

-Linux 64-bit: https://github.com/sa666666/harmonycart/releases/download/release-1.3/harmonycart_1.3-1_amd64.deb
-OSX: https://github.com/sa666666/harmonycart/releases/download/release-1.3/HarmonyCart-1.3-macosx.dmg
-Windows: https://github.com/sa666666/harmonycart/releases/download/release-1.3/HarmonyCart-1.3-win32.exe

 

Plug in the Concerto with your micro-USB cable, then start the software. Generally, your OS will automatically find and install drivers.  If the OS does not automatically install the drivers when the Concerto is plugged in with a micro-USB cable, leverage the following links:

 

-Green PCB (newer) Concertos use CH341 drivers  (Downloads are also posted here by batari).

-Purple PCB (older) Concertos use the FTDI drivers.

 

If you are having issues, there is a newer version (2.0 beta 2) of the Harmony programming software, located here:

 

-Linux

-Mac OS X

-Windows 64-bit

 

After installing the Harmony programming software, a reboot may be necessary for the cart to be recognized.

 

Depending on when you bought your cart, you may need to remove the POKEY chip so the software can properly communicate.

 

In the Harmony programming software, go to the EEPROM loader section and select the included eeloader_NTSC.bin (or similar) file, and click "download EEPROM".  Make sure the download goes to 100%, and fully completes (text on the bottom of the window should indicate a successful download).  Retry if it does not fully complete.

 

If the eeloader_NTSC.bin file is missing, obtain it from this post or directly here. 

 

Copy the latest firmware posted file, hbios_concerto_build_7822.bin, to the root directory of your SD card.  Make sure there are no other files starting with "hbios" on the card, or it may load that one instead.

 

Insert the card into Concerto and boot.  It will boot into Harmony mode and update the firmware, and when it completes, it will show a success screen and ask you to press a button to continue.  Instead of pressing a button, you should reboot the 7800. 

 

Now your new BIOS is installed, and the top of the screen will read: Concerto firmware 0.96 daily build 7822.

As a new owner of a Concerto, I thought I would mention I was able to get mine updated from the displayed .94a with the help from this post. I did not have to remove the HOKEY.   I did have to use the newer version of the 2.0 beta 2 software as the earlier did not recognize the cartridge.  My MacOS is Monterey on a 2015 MacBook Pro (Intel).

[Lord_of_Sipan]

I finally got it working!

 

I followed snogpitch's suggestion to use the beta 2.0 software on my Mac which was able to detect the concerto. At first I was still having problems because I kept getting a write error on block 1 but I was able to get the eprom write function to work by changing the option for rewrite attempts on error to 20, I don't think it actually needed that many attempts but I must have needed more than 1. That was able to write successfully in 8 seconds. Just got the firmware updated successfully.

 

I am wondering if the non-beta Mac version has a compatibility issue on newer versions of the Mac OS. I know apple has fiddled with the way Macs deal with serial bus devices over the last few years as I have had to mess around with some hacked together third party stuff to get certain peripherals working since maybe 2020ish.

[anarkiwi]

Firstly, thanks so much for Concerto! 

 

I have two 7800s - one NTSC (original, with the expansion connector), one PAL (with built in Asteroids).

 

Concerto works great on the NTSC one. I've used 0.96/7822/daily on it without any issues. Very happy.

 

On the PAL one - not as much luck. 2600 games work, but 7800 games lock up within a few seconds of loading. 

 

I have some NTSC carts which work fine - for example, Galaga. If I put a real NTSC Galaga cart in my PAL 7800, I can actually play it (with the expected corruption at the bottom of the screen of course). However, if I load either PAL or NTSC Galaga from Concerto - it locks up. I feel like this means that my 7800 is actually fine (I could go get a PAL 7800 cart to test with I guess). Built in Asteroids is fine, but if I load Asteroids from Concerto - locks up.

 

Possibly I'm missing something obvious - I see that there are different ee loaders for PAL/NTSC (I've tried both), but I'm not clear if there's a PAL-specific Concerto hbios. My search foo seems be failing, I can't find a specifically labelled PAL hbios if there is one.

 

Am I just missing something simple like I have missed the right firmware, or is something else more deep and mysterious going on?

 

I did run the Atari diag cart image from concerto also. 50% of the time I just get a black screen, but the other 50% of the time it fails with error 12 (which I think is bad RAM). I replaced both RAM chips with some spare 6116s from a VIC 20 (known good), and the 7800 behaves the same. The original RAMs run fine in the VIC 20 so I think the RAM is fine too.

 

Any pointers appreciated and thanks again for an amazing product :).

 

 

 

 

 

[slaanesh]

I have had a Concerto for a while and it works well with my relatively rare (well rare for Australia, usually PAL) NTSC Atari 7800 .

 

I recently bought a PAL Ballblazer cart. I verified that sound worked on the game using my PAL Atari 7800.

I removed the POKEY and I think the extraction went well, all pins good no breakages and no damage to the POKEY.

 

I inserted the now loaded-with-POKEY concerto into the NTSC Atari 7800.

 

Black screen!

So I updated the firmware to the latest : hbios_concerto_0.96_build_72822_NTSC.bin
I checked that it was successful and then re-inserted my POKEY into the concerto and tested again. 

Still black screen.

My installation basically consisted of me inserting the chip into the socket (the correct way, all pins carefully checked, straight and in) - is there anything else that needs to be done? 
I see there is an empty JP1 under the socket where the POKEY goes.

 

Maybe I fried my POKEY somehow? I'm pretty experienced removing ICs and have good soldering and desoldering skills and equipment.

 

Edited December 2, 2022 by slaanesh

[slaanesh]

Just continuing on my previous post, I soldered a socket back on my Ballblazer cart and inserted the POKEY back into it and it has sound!

So it's not the POKEY.

[slaanesh]

Dang it it turns out it's my NTSC Atari. It doesn't always switch on first go.
It switches on, LED is on, but nothing happens. Just a black screen. Sometimes the same with other carts too but seems worse with the concerto. Power draw? Bad cap?

[+-^CrossBow^-]

1 hour ago, slaanesh said:

Dang it it turns out it's my NTSC Atari. It doesn't always switch on first go.
It switches on, LED is on, but nothing happens. Just a black screen. Sometimes the same with other carts too but seems worse with the concerto. Power draw? Bad cap?

It very well could be a power related issue. Start with replacing the original 7805 with new one of at least 1A - 2A output. Also make sure your PSU is providing good input voltage to the regulator.

 

[slaanesh]

4 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Start with replacing the original 7805 with new one of at least 1A - 2A output.

I replaced the 7805 which was outputting 4.83v with a Traco TSR 1-2450 which is a nice switching voltage regulator. I also had already changed the caps previously.

It still doesn’t come on reliably though regular commercial carts seem to start far more readily.

it also has a UAV video mod but that would interfere I would think.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Okay..the 1-2450 is the 1A output variant and the older models of that, actually required about 12v of input voltage to properly kick on and provide the +5 needed. I installed those into a few 7800s I did for others a few years back, and had to recall them back so I could replace them out with newer 2-2450 variants that are 2A output, but only required 7v input to switch on properly. This was discovered because they all bought DragonFly carts, and the way that cart works it only provides an exact +9v to the input and it wasn't enough to fully switch on the 1-2450 switching regulators.

 

The older models would switch on, but only provide 3.3v on the output and what you are describing is exactly what I ran into on those older 1-2450 Traco switchers. I still have a pair of them installed into my 5200 but I also make sure that the PSUs I use on it are putting out about 14v without a load so I can be sure the 5200 powers on properly.

 

If the 2450 is only putting out about 3v, that is enough to light up the LED and switch the 4013 but not enough to power the rest of the system. 

 

So first check the input voltage to the system by measuring it at the ferrite bead on the far upper right of the board just below the large main filter cap to see what the input voltage is. If it isn't at least 12v, you should look at using a different a PSU or replace out the 1-2450 with a newer variant that only requires 7v input to work.

 

 

[+DrVenkman]

I have had this discussion with @-^CrossBow^- before but it bears repeating here: I’ve used those same Traco regulators on a couple of different Sinclair ZX-81’s that I’ve repaired and they’ve been just fine with a 9V input (using my bench power supply to set voltage and max current). I suspect his experience involved a bad or out-of-spec batch.

 

That said, you could have an intermittent internal short which reduces voltage inside the machine, another IC that is sitting poorly in a socket and making only intermittent contact or any number of other issues. It was my machine, I’d remove the board from the case (or at least take the top off) then try to run the machine. In those instances that the red LED comes on but the system doesn’t boot up, start making voltage measurements. Start at the power output of the voltage regulator, then check Vss and Vcc of each IC to be sure everything is getting a nominal 5V and ground is good everywhere. Then start poking and pressing on any socketed chips - remove and reseat them, checking chip legs and socket wipes for corrosion or other damage. Poke around the UAV installation and make sure there’s not a loose solder blob or flake that might be causing a problem somewhere.  

 

Next, use a bright light and magnification, and be 100% there’s no debris in the cartridge connector and that all the contacts are straight and clean. And now that I think about it, that may be the most likely issue: with the power off, spray the contact liberally with Deoxit or something similar, then insert and remove one of your 7800 carts vigorously several times to spread the cleaner around the connector pin surfaces, then remove the cart and let everything dry for 10 minutes or so. 

 

 

If those basic steps don’t turn up a problem, you might have a failing IC, which can get tougher to diagnose, especially if the system isn’t socketed, but it can be done with the schematics, a meter or scope, and some patience. 

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

31 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

I have had this discussion with @-^CrossBow^- before but it bears repeating here: I’ve used those same Traco regulators on a couple of different Sinclair ZX-81’s that I’ve repaired and they’ve been just fine with a 9V input (using my bench power supply to set voltage and max current). I suspect his experience involved a bad or out-of-spec batch.

It wasn't a bad batch. When I looked at the specs of them later, they actual did state an input voltage requirement of +12v and I just hadn't noticed it. Additionally, since I was still using an actual 7800 PSU that puts out over 12v without a load, it was never an issue until the DF carts came out. Since the DF has to have an exact +9 PSU used on it, and it in turns passes that through to the 7800, the 9v wasn't enough to kick those earlier DC-DC switchers on. I purchased those tracos from Mouser where I've always purchased them so again, I don't think it was a bad batch but a batch that require specs I didn't think or know would be an issue at the time.

 

Okay, in looking again, I think what happened is that I purchased the dual output voltage variants back then not realizing. In essence, they needed +12 to switch over and output +5v and anything less than that, they only put out 3.3v there abouts voltage. Again, I now use a more expensive variant of the Traco 2-2450s that I think only require about 6.5v input to provide the +5v needed to the system.

 

[+x=usr(1536)]

16 hours ago, slaanesh said:

I replaced the 7805 which was outputting 4.83v with a Traco TSR 1-2450 which is a nice switching voltage regulator. I also had already changed the caps previously.

It still doesn’t come on reliably though regular commercial carts seem to start far more readily.

it also has a UAV video mod but that would interfere I would think.

FWIW, my daily-driver 7800 has a Traco 2-2450 installed, and I have had zero issues with it.  This is with a UAV also installed and constant Concerto usage; the machine is still powered by the original supply.

 

Remember that we are talking about a potentially 35-plus-year-old machine.  Any number of things could be consuming more power than they should be by spec, and the Concerto will definitely draw more current than even a commercial release with a POKEY installed.  That you mention a better rate of success with commercial titles (and I'll hazard a guess that non-POKEY games are probably better in this regard) compared to the Concerto makes me suspect a power issue.

 

On a purely personal note: a few weeks ago, I went on a scavenger hunt for a cheaper alternative to the 2-2450.  I did run across the 1-2450, but after comparing the datasheets for each of them decided to skip the 1-2450 and just keep using 2-2450s wherever they were a good fit.  What drove my decision on this was ultimately mathematical rather than financial: in applications where the original voltage regulator was specced for a machine drawing more than 500mA but less than 1A, the amount of current the 1-2450 could handle would - with the introduction of modifications - be getting close to the 1-2450's shutdown current.  Factor in components of unknown condition and it was anywhere from very likely to possible that the 1-2450 wouldn't be up to the job - particularly given that the original PSU was designed to a 1A spec.

 

Definitely go through the troubleshooting steps that have been recommended so far.  Also:

10 hours ago, DrVenkman said:

If those basic steps don’t turn up a problem, you might have a failing IC, which can get tougher to diagnose, especially if the system isn’t socketed, but it can be done with the schematics, a meter or scope, and some patience. 

Months prior to installing the Traco and UAV, I was attempting to track down an issue with a game in development that only appeared to be affecting a very tiny subset of Concerto users, myself included.  This later turned out to be related to the version of the Concerto's firmware that was current when the game was being developed, but, as part of eliminating possibilities, the original Rockwell SALLY was replaced with a Synertek, which is still in there today.

 

While that didn't solve the in-development issue, it did take care of some weird intermittent graphical artifacts that had become apparent, particularly in 2600 mode.  Given the less-than-stellar track record of Rockwell CPUs in a number of Atari machines, you may want to consider swapping it out with one from a different manufacturer, at least for testing.  There's nothing to lose, really.

[slaanesh]

So after changing to the 1-2450 all my 7800 carts now start first-time every-time.

 

The concerto with the POKEY hardly ever starts, perhaps 2 in about a 20 attempts.

 

The 1-2450 is getting about 9.5V input but 4.9V output, both measured directly on the pinout of the 1-2450.

The output is a little low but within spec.

I've had absolutely no issues with these for replacements in other machines and usually find them rock-steady.

 

I don't have a 2-2450 handy but I do have an OKI 78SR-5/1.5 which does 1.5A output, I might try that one instead.

 

EDIT: 

 

Also one other thing, it's not the UAV video mod, it's the Longhorn A/V Mod 2.1B - does this have a higher power requirement?

 

I removed the 1-2450 and replaced it with the 78SR-5/1.5 - no real difference in performance other than a slightly higher output voltage of 4.93V.

Concerto is still the same. I guess I could take the POKEY out again but my intention was to have a POKEY equipped concerto.

 

I don't have a spare SALLY - well - or do I? I have myl PAL 7800 I guess if it's socketed I could borrow it to see if there is any difference.

Edited December 4, 2022 by slaanesh

[anarkiwi]

Hi all - maybe I should ask my question in a different way (perhaps more helpful).

 

Has anyone got Concerto working on a PAL 7800, and if so, with what firmware/hbios version?

 

Thanks,

 

[mimo]

On 12/4/2022 at 4:03 AM, anarkiwi said:

Hi all - maybe I should ask my question in a different way (perhaps more helpful).

 

Has anyone got Concerto working on a PAL 7800, and if so, with what firmware/hbios version?

 

Thanks,

 

Yes. It's worked since day one.
I'm on the last but one firmware.
This works on my NTSC, PAL UK, and PAL French consoles 
 

[anarkiwi]

8 hours ago, mimo said:

Yes. It's worked since day one.
I'm on the last but one firmware.
This works on my NTSC, PAL UK, and PAL French consoles 
 

Great to have the confirmation - thanks!

 

I'll try reverting firmware then (I've tried 7822 and 7822/daily, both don't run PAL ROMs correctly). If you have time, it would be good to know if those hbios versions work/don't work - though I wouldn't want your system to be messed up especially if you have something working :).

 

[mimo]

53 minutes ago, anarkiwi said:

Great to have the confirmation - thanks!

 

I'll try reverting firmware then (I've tried 7822 and 7822/daily, both don't run PAL ROMs correctly). If you have time, it would be good to know if those hbios versions work/don't work - though I wouldn't want your system to be messed up especially if you have something working :).

 

Sorry, all my 7800s are packed away at the moment.

Atari 800 and 1200xl are out to play and there is no spare space on the desk.

[anarkiwi]

On 12/6/2022 at 1:25 AM, mimo said:

Yes. It's worked since day one.
I'm on the last but one firmware.
This works on my NTSC, PAL UK, and PAL French consoles 
 

I appreciate your tip about latest-but-one firmware. I downgraded from 0.96 to 0.95, and things are definitely better. PAL Xevious still instantly crashes, but now Galaga does not crash and many other PAL games are working again.

 

So to summarize, on my PAL 7800, 0.96 almost instantly crashes on most all .PAL a78s, 0.95 is better but still some games don't work. On my NTSC 7800 everything is great, including up to 0.96.

 

I suggest not upgrading for now if you have a working PAL setup!

 

 

 

[mimo]

2 hours ago, anarkiwi said:

I appreciate your tip about latest-but-one firmware. I downgraded from 0.96 to 0.95, and things are definitely better. PAL Xevious still instantly crashes, but now Galaga does not crash and many other PAL games are working again.

 

So to summarize, on my PAL 7800, 0.96 almost instantly crashes on most all .PAL a78s, 0.95 is better but still some games don't work. On my NTSC 7800 everything is great, including up to 0.96.

 

I suggest not upgrading for now if you have a working PAL setup!

 

 

 

Are you using Trebor's ROM pack for the files?
 

These ROMs have the best compatability

[anarkiwi]

20 hours ago, mimo said:

Are you using Trebor's ROM pack for the files?

 

I am indeed. 
 

These ROMs have the best compatability

 

[Lord_of_Sipan]

Have had 2 issues that I have not yet been able to overcome with my concerto having tried several different firmware versions now.

 

1. I have a hokey chip soldered cart and whenever I play a game like commando with pokey audio the pokey audio is super quiet compared to the TIA sound effects. Is there a way to adjust the relative volume levels of the two chips?

2. I have never been able to get a few games to work, most significantly for my interests, Rampage and Tower Toppler. I have tried every version of both roms from Trebor’s pack I think. Has anyone ever got either of these games to work? If so, what firmware revision were you using?

[+batari]

26 minutes ago, Lord_of_Sipan said:

Have had 2 issues that I have not yet been able to overcome with my concerto having tried several different firmware versions now.

 

1. I have a hokey chip soldered cart and whenever I play a game like commando with pokey audio the pokey audio is super quiet compared to the TIA sound effects. Is there a way to adjust the relative volume levels of the two chips?

2. I have never been able to get a few games to work, most significantly for my interests, Rampage and Tower Toppler. I have tried every version of both roms from Trebor’s pack I think. Has anyone ever got either of these games to work? If so, what firmware revision were you using?

When did you order your cart?

 

If you bought your cart right around PRGE (mid-october) I was pretty far behind on some orders, so to make up for the delay I sent some out with free HOKEYs.

 

Long story short, Some HOKEYs are configured differently than others. Some are set up as a drop-in POKEY replacement and others are set up for a new installation, like a homebrew board. I am pretty sure that the free HOKEYs, and maybe a couple of the first purchased HOKEYs, were configured for a new installation instead of as drop-in POKEY replacements. They will work this way but the volume level will be lower.

 

While a firmware update will eventually allow you to adjust the volume in software, I don't think it will allow you to bring the volume up high enough to make up the difference for these few out there.

 

So, is your cart socketed? If so I can send you a HOKEY that is set up as a drop-in POKEY replacement, and you can just replace the one in your cart. If your HOKEY is soldered in, though, if you want you can send your Concerto back to me and I can take care of it, and bring the volume level up. But first, if you can confirm that yours is one of the mid-october carts, possibly one of the ones with a free HOKEY, that will make me sure that a new HOKEY will fix the issue.

 

If anyone else has one of these early carts (particularly one of the ones I sent with the free HOKEY) feel free to let me know and I can get the proper device to you. I think it was only around 5 of them? Maybe 6 or 7, I don't remember entirely.