Concerto firmware thread

[Swami]

4 hours ago, mimo said:

I'm going slightly crazy, trying to update the bios but despite downloading the drivers my cart is not detected. Tried on two windows laptops .
Looks like I'm stuck on .93 which thankfully is stable for me 

I had to use a different usb cable as the first one did not allow me to recognize the cart

[RevEng]

45 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

if I understand correctly (*) - SALLY in the 7800 does not run at a constant speed; the clock changes back to 1.19 Mhz when accessing TIA or RIOT registers. If there’s a “messy” transition, it might cause spurious timing problems with external devices.

You understand correctly, but I think the language that it switches to 1.19 MHz (which has been used since the gcc docs) is a bit vague.

 

What exactly happens is that when Maria (which generates Sally's PHI0) detects access in the TIA or RIOT address ranges, it will lengthen only the 6502 read/write cycle to 1.5 the usual length. So we get an effective 0.5 6502 cycle slowdown per TIA/RIOT access.

 

It's not a real matter of flipping clocks, but rather just Maria logic, so I don't think there's much chance of it being messy. But it's entirely possible that some Sally's may not be happy with the long cycle.

[+DrVenkman]

1 minute ago, RevEng said:

But it's entirely possible that some Sally's may not be happy with the long cycle.

Yeah, I guess that’s what I’m getting at, or that there’s a messy transition from the longer to the shorter cycle and back. If someone had a good test system, the test equipment and the smarts (pssst .... @CPUWIZ, we’re talking about you ), it might be interesting to do some “lot testing” of as many SALLY’s from different manufacturers, date ranges, etc. It might be a fab-specific issue (all NCR chips, for instance) or it might be just NCR chips from 1984, or it might just be some individual aging or marginal chips (I’ve run into a couple bad SALLY chips - Rockwell and Synertek both - in my A8 system repairs). 

[mimo]

1 hour ago, Swami said:

I had to use a different usb cable as the first one did not allow me to recognize the cart

I saw your post and tried that ?

[RevEng]

8 minutes ago, mimo said:

I saw your post and tried that ?

And you're not powering Concerto in the console while you try to connect over USB, are you?

 

Assuming not, does it show up in the Windows Device Manager tree as an unknown device, or is it recognized?

[Swami]

34 minutes ago, mimo said:

I saw your post and tried that ?

You also have to have the cart plugged in by USB when you open the program. If you insert the usb while the program is open, it won't recognize it. Also, try uninstalling the program and install it in the root of the C:\ drive rather than the x86 program files folder. The program file folders have peculiar security blocks.

[mimo]

1 hour ago, RevEng said:

And you're not powering Concerto in the console while you try to connect over USB, are you?

No

 

1 hour ago, RevEng said:

Assuming not, does it show up in the Windows Device Manager tree as an unknown device, or is it recognized?

No and no 

 

1 hour ago, Swami said:

You also have to have the cart plugged in by USB when you open the program. If you insert the usb while the program is open, it won't recognize it.

Tried that too

 

1 hour ago, Swami said:

Also, try uninstalling the program and install it in the root of the C:\ drive rather than the x86 program files folder. The program file folders have peculiar security blocks

I'll give that a go over the next few days, thanks for your help , much appreciated

Even though it's a green PCB I also tried with pokey removed 

 

Edited December 24, 2020 by mimo

[+Karl G]

16 minutes ago, mimo said:

1 hour ago, RevEng said:

Assuming not, does it show up in the Windows Device Manager tree as an unknown device, or is it recognized?

No and no 

 

Does that mean it doesn't show up as a device at all? Maybe your second USB cable is bad as well?

[RevEng]

If it's not showing up in Device Manager when you plug it in, in any form, then the Harmony Programming Tool will never find it. No point in uninstalling or reinstalling the software, until Concerto shows up as a device to the OS.

 

As Karl is suggesting, ensure you're using a cable that is know to work for data with another device. There are "power only" usb cables, and it's easy to get fooled by them. Also check using another port/computer, with the known good cable. If all of the above has been vetted, then it could be that there's some lower level problem with your Concerto's serial bridge. 

[+mksmith]

@mimo Have you tried installing the drivers (in the following post) so the Concerto is recognised?  Some have said the drivers are automatically setup by Windows but I had to install them manually (latest Windows 10). There is some additional discussion above this post based on what I was seeing in the Device Manager.  As Mike also suggested above try some different USB ports as mine was only found on 1 of the 2 I tried. 

 

[Jinks]

You absolutely have to use a data type usb cable. Any usb that is made for charging only will not work. I made this mistake before. 

[Trebor]

5 hours ago, Swami said:

I had to use a different usb cable as the first one did not allow me to recognize the cart

Some USB cables are charge only, lacking data receive and transfer wires, they have only positive and negative lines present.

It drove me nuts due to not knowing that tidbit several years back when working with the Harmony cart.

 

*EDIT:  Sorry, responded to the quoted portion before seeing RevEng's and Jinks' spot-on posts above.  Both beat me to the punch...lol.   

[mimo]

It's definitely a data cable, I only have one that is power only and that is powering my dash cam. 

I have tried all the usb ports on 2 different lap tops.

I have installed the drivers on both laptops as they did not auto install.

 

[+mksmith]

A good tip someone suggested is the power/data cables are much thicker than the straight power cables - help me out! Hopefully that might help find/ordering a suitable one.

[Swami]

4 hours ago, mksmith said:

A good tip someone suggested is the power/data cables are much thicker than the straight power cables - help me out! Hopefully that might help find/ordering a suitable one.

I hate how there’s at least two types of cables that look the same and some dozen different connectors. It’s ridiculous. 

[CPUWIZ]

4 minutes ago, Swami said:

I hate how there’s at least two types of cables that look the same and some dozen different connectors. It’s ridiculous. 

 

Imagine if your phone had a USB Type A port.

[Swami]

I’d deal with it. A, B, C, mini, micro, lightning. 

[Greg2600]

Extremely brief synopsis.  Got the Concerto today, downloaded EEPROM, installed BIOS 0.95 without issue on Sandisk SDHC.  Menu working.  Tested a few standard 7800 and 2600 games, seem to be fine.  Pitfall 2 or Champ Games no good FWIW (presume known).  I do not have a POKEY.  Two different consoles, both had same results. 

 

Great job Batari!

 

PS: is that colored light show on load up permanent?  ☠️

[+batari]

9 hours ago, mimo said:

It's definitely a data cable, I only have one that is power only and that is powering my dash cam. 

I have tried all the usb ports on 2 different lap tops.

I have installed the drivers on both laptops as they did not auto install.

 

One thing to try: if you are in Windows, go into device manager, ensure a COM port comes up.

 

If it doesn't, see if an unknown device comes up, if so, install drivers on that device.

 

Even if all that works, another possibility is that with the release versions of the Harmony software, only COM ports up to 255 are supported. I've seen higher numbered com ports in some cases. The newer beta version of the programming software should support these higher numbers.

[mimo]

Thanks, Fred.

It's going to be a couple of days before I get to do anything else but I'll report back 

[Cyprian]

On 12/15/2020 at 10:14 AM, batari said:

This thread is to discuss Concerto firmware. You can report problems, request features, that kind of thing.

 

This first post will help describe how Concerto firmware is structured to help track down issues, and to explain the changes that were not able to make it to the release firmware just yet.

Does Concerto support Pokey Interrupts (via cartridge interrupt pin)?

[+batari]

5 hours ago, Cyprian_K said:

Does Concerto support Pokey Interrupts (via cartridge interrupt pin)?

  Early Concertos did, but the feature caused some games to be unstable, and I suspected that maybe the POKEY would throw spurious interrupts (not sure, though). At any rate, the feature was removed so it isn't supported at this time. Something may be supportable in a later firmware if such a feature would prove useful, but I am not sure it would be, due to the way the 7800 operates.

I assume you are asking because POKEY IRQ is a way to play digital samples on A8 or 5200, and are wondering if you can do the same on a 7800 in a similar manner. Well, unfortunately, the 7800 doesn't really work that way. The MARIA completely halts the 6502 for a portion of every frame while it is drawing the screen, maybe half the visible screen on a typical game? As playing digital samples effectively means interrupting the CPU hundreds of times per frame, you could miss 25% or more of the IRQs in a row, on every frame. If you miss that many IRQs, the digital samples would sound pretty awful if they sounded like anything at all.

 

The only exception to this is when the screen is blanked, as MARIA doesn't halt the CPU, but that is not at all useful for games. Maybe for demos?

 

Besides, the 7800 has a far better way to play sound as it has an analog output on the cart port, so you don't need to be limited to using old chips for CPU-assisted digital samples. Given the Concerto's design and upcoming HOKEY, it will be capable of digital samples that are far superior than anything a POKEY or other legacy hardware can produce anyway, and unlike the interrupt approach, it can do so during an active game. Also it takes virtually no CPU time, unlike the interrupt approach.

[schnuth]

I got my Concerto today. I was able to get the bios upgraded to 0.95 no problem after downloading the software and drivers to my PC and booting the cart in my 7800.

However I can not get anything to load, and if it does load it’s glitched pretty badly (with accompanying high pitched shrieks) or displays garbled. Mostly it freezes between 50 - 90% while loading or displays a black screen. I’m using Trebors ROM pack. I haven’t tried loading any 2600 games.

I’ve tried a variety of SD cards with the same results: brand new Sandisk Ultra 32gb microsd (used this one to update BIOS), older Kingston 1 & 2gb SD cards (Concerto would not recognize the 1gb card), Kingston 1gb microsd, Promaster 1gb SD, and a Sandisk 32gb SDHC.

I’ll post a couple pictures of the garbled games as well as a pic of my console’s serial number. It’s been modded for composite video by Video 61 in case that’s significant.

Thanks!

[+evg2000]

@schnuth did you clean the cartridge connector?  worked for the gargled issues i had.  other carts worked fine with the dirty connection but concerto had some issues

[CPUWIZ]

46 minutes ago, schnuth said:

 

 

You found the secret spell, do not have anyone speak that out loud!