VCS Classic Controller Discussions (various)

[jerseystyle]

Only part I’ve had any interest in. Can they be used with other machines? Do they have a paddle incorporated into the stick like was mentioned untold years ago? 

[themewsh]

I don't have one, but the vids on YouTube show that the paddle functionality seems to be there.

[Mockduck]

One of the YouTube vids making the rounds on social media claims the controller build quality isn't that great, but I've seen two other videos where people talked about how good the controller was, so....jury is still out I think. Functionally it has a ton of potential outside of VCS use, and might be the best commercial product yet to play emulated PC stuff that can benefit from an Atari-style joystick or paddle with a few additional mappable buttons. On the surface it appears to be much nicer than the kind of bad Hyperkins and definitely bad Amazon offerings. 

[doctorclu]

How is the VCS for those of you that have one?   Is it worth picking up?

[Nall3k]

7 hours ago, doctorclu said:

How is the VCS for those of you that have one?   Is it worth picking up?

This is what I'm waiting on. I've seen backers post photos of their consoles and controllers arriving. From what I've read, some users are installing Steam and playing Cyberpunk and Warzone on it. Atari claims the system is currently in a "beta testing" phase via the backers, and will have more offerings in early 2021.

My thoughts are, if it can install and play Steam games, it might be worth getting as I have a Mac and a lot of games on Steam are still PC only. But, I'm waiting 6+ months or more to see how this all plays out. If the controllers are sold separately, I'd be interested in getting those. Apparently the modern controller can be used on the Xbox.

[JeffVav]

13 hours ago, Mockduck said:

One of the YouTube vids making the rounds on social media claims the controller build quality isn't that great, but I've seen two other videos where people talked about how good the controller was, so....jury is still out I think. Functionally it has a ton of potential outside of VCS use, and might be the best commercial product yet to play emulated PC stuff that can benefit from an Atari-style joystick or paddle with a few additional mappable buttons. On the surface it appears to be much nicer than the kind of bad Hyperkins and definitely bad Amazon offerings. 

Where have you seen videos discussing the controllers? All I can find is the one guy who received his VCS last weekend where he doesn't get into the controllers much, and then about 30 other videos meta-reviewing the first guy's video. YouTube is strange. 

Edited December 18, 2020 by JeffVav

[doctorclu]

3 hours ago, Nall3k said:

My thoughts are, if it can install and play Steam games, it might be worth getting as I have a Mac and a lot of games on Steam are still PC only. But, I'm waiting 6+ months or more to see how this all plays out. If the controllers are sold separately, I'd be interested in getting those. Apparently the modern controller can be used on the Xbox.

NOW I'm seeing the value of VCS.   I need a good console Steam system.  And personally, it would be the first system I could play four different Bubsy games on (as they are on Steam). 

 

Ok, past nostalgia, this could be worthwhile.

[AlecRob]

Xbox controllers can also work on the VCS. 

[zzip]

13 hours ago, Nall3k said:

My thoughts are, if it can install and play Steam games, it might be worth getting as I have a Mac and a lot of games on Steam are still PC only. But, I'm waiting 6+ months or more to see how this all plays out. If the controllers are sold separately, I'd be interested in getting those. Apparently the modern controller can be used on the Xbox.

To me, this was always the appeal.  I don't really trust Atari to produce a library of compelling games on it, but if I can load it up with games from Steam and my older PC games and emulators, and hook it up to a TV, it will be a nice device.

[Matt_B]

To put Steam on it, you'll need to add an SSD and install your own operating system. Everyone we've seen running Steam on it as done it via Windows so far, at least. Putting some more RAM in would probably be a good idea while you're at it.

 

Even then it's going to be held back by what is a very poor GPU by modern standards in the Vega 3. That's cheap laptop level graphics which, although considerably better than they used to be, are far behind even the last generation consoles. As the name suggests it's got 3 compute units next to the 12 in the Xbox One, 18 in the PS4, 32 in the PS5 and a whopping 52 in the Series X. Clock speeds and memory bandwidth also come into it, but they're not doing the VCS any favours either. It's a very basic unit that you really shouldn't be paying nearly $400 for, let alone the AU$849 asking price for one where I live.

 

That's still going to be good enough for most indie games, mind you. A lot of AAA games come with a potato setting, so you can run them on a cheap laptop, and they should work too even if they'll look far from at their best. So yeah, if you want to play Cyberpunk 2077 on your big screen at 720p, barely scraping 30fps and with Xbox 360-style visuals, you can.

 

Here's the game running on the broadly comparable Athlon 3000G, so this is what you're in for:

 

 

 

As for whether that's better or worse than a PS4, I'll choose neither for now.?

 

Generally though, you'll be looking at PS360-era games before you'll get anything running at top settings.

 

So yeah, it'll run Steam but don't get too excited about it and for the amount of money you'd spend and work you'd have to do you might as well build your own Steam box.

[justclaws]

As the discussion was about the classic style Atari VCS controller, I guess not everybody saw this article.
https://atarivcs.medium.com/the-atari-wireless-classic-joystick-and-atari-vcs-vault-677945d3d8d2

 

Edited December 20, 2020 by justclaws

[justclaws]

 
Also there's a YouTube video, and the reports and comments are that this is unchanged except for being stronger.

* I have no connection with the Atari company. I've just been an Atari user and fan most of my life.

[mr_me]

On 12/16/2020 at 10:50 PM, jerseystyle said:

Only part I’ve had any interest in. Can they be used with other machines? Do they have a paddle incorporated into the stick like was mentioned untold years ago? 

My guess is that it's more like a spinner than a paddle.  A spinner can emulate a paddle controller fine but a paddle controller can't emulate a spinner very well. You wouldn't want to play tempest with an atari 2600 paddle controller.  It's definitely a unique feature for modern controllers, hopefully the spinner control works on alternate linux/windows os if installed.

[justclaws]

There was an official launch video for the controller recently released, which shows the features.

* I am not connected to the Atari company!

[JeffVav]

Are there any detailed user reviews?

[markboston36]

i just got my vcs yesterday and have played some classic games on it(what i bought it for.) i did not buy the modern controller for the reason that i remember using the joystick on the 2600. how does this compare to that? if you want something like a 2600 atari joystick made by atari(same company not same people) this is it in my opinion. i really like it and i think it does imitate the original very well.

 

Now while i do like it and say its as close as your going to get to a 40 year old piece of hardware being made again its not that. its made with modern plastic parts that are cheap compared with how things were made then. having said that i still think its a great controller. although i do wish we got an atari port as well to use the original joysticks. does atari st still own the hardware patents? im sure you could get a db9 to mini usb adapter.

[Matt_B]

19 hours ago, markboston36 said:

i just got my vcs yesterday and have played some classic games on it(what i bought it for.) i did not buy the modern controller for the reason that i remember using the joystick on the 2600. how does this compare to that? if you want something like a 2600 atari joystick made by atari(same company not same people) this is it in my opinion. i really like it and i think it does imitate the original very well.

 

Now while i do like it and say its as close as your going to get to a 40 year old piece of hardware being made again its not that. its made with modern plastic parts that are cheap compared with how things were made then. having said that i still think its a great controller. although i do wish we got an atari port as well to use the original joysticks. does atari st still own the hardware patents? im sure you could get a db9 to mini usb adapter.

Patents have a lifetime of 20-25 years, depending on jurisdiction, so all the ones Atari owned back in the day will have expired by now.

 

You can consequently buy knock-off CX40 sticks from a variety of sources with either DB9 or USB connectors.

 

 

[AlecRob]

I’ve seen two reports of joysticks  breaking clean off after a couple days. Not looking good for the classic joystick.  Glad i didnt back one.  If they improve the build quality i will buy one.  

[Mockduck]

The classic joystick is the best atari-style joystick ever released, period. It does however require a lighter touch. If you are a joystick jammer, it wouldn't surprise me if it wore out quickly. 

[justclaws]

10 hours ago, AlecRob said:

I’ve seen two reports of joysticks  breaking clean off after a couple days. Not looking good for the classic joystick.  Glad i didnt back one.  If they improve the build quality i will buy one.  

The joysticks feel good quality, and well built. Most reviewers have said so.
The design schematics Atari showed previously show the internals, and they didn't use cheap components.

I was astonished that anybody had broken one, in a way, but I was also sure that somebody would. They always do...
One comment, something like "Finally, it happened, I broke the stick clean off", made me wonder how much force used. 
I don't think that person tried to break it, but I do think they realised they were being very heavy handed using it. ?

Perhaps those people also just got a bad one, but I suspect they're used to worn-out old CX40's and used the same force?

I agree, the joystick does need a lighter touch than the old ones. For example, there is the spinner mechanism.
Perhaps indeed, two version would help.
One cheap, with the brute-force CX-40 feel and handle, and the other light touch with spinner. Maybe it's inevitable.

The PS5 is also built like crap. It hardly takes a slight nudge.
 

On a reminiscing about the past consoles note... Atari Jaguar.

Most people remember the Atari Jaguar controller as a very strong, controller. I remember in the day, people breaking those.
I remember somebody said they'd had to press so hard on the buttons, during play, that they buttons went inside. Just how?

[+LS650]

1 hour ago, justclaws said:

Most people remember the Atari Jaguar controller as a very strong, controller. I remember in the day, people breaking those.
I remember somebody said they'd had to press so hard on the buttons, during play, that they buttons went inside. Just how?

Weird.  I've been playing Jag games for about 20 years, and I've never had a Jag controller break.  They're damned sturdy.

[justclaws]

22 minutes ago, ls650 said:

Weird.  I've been playing Jag games for about 20 years, and I've never had a Jag controller break.  They're damned sturdy.

Exactly! I've never had a problem, since 1995, and I'm still using my grey "developer" Jag joypad (the Falcon one), too.
The only problem is the grey is a bit discoloured by light over the years.

Still, we see people talking trash about Jaguar controllers on YouTube. It's like the last 25 years never happened.  

[justclaws]

"This is NOT cheap plastic!"
He's very impressed with it, and says there is a lot of quality to it. Go see.
 

 

[RedWolfJC]

This was on the discord page today. 

Yikes.

[Clint Thompson]

Just received mine today after backing it 2 1/2 years ago. My initial impression of the joystick was immediately met with skepticism after removing it from the box (fire button seemed alarmingly small, stick was questionably wobbly) but as it turns out, they absolutely nailed it. Aesthetically it's a perfect 10/10. I was worried about the 'softer' feel of the Joystick but as a result, is easier to move and doesn't require the same brute force of the original joysticks.

 

The only thing I seem to have an issue with is the switching between the spinner and regular joystick, not sure if there's a way to disable the switching from regular joystick to spinner or what is causing it actually but otherwise the joystick has exceeded my expectations. This is the futuristic, modernized Atari joystick I've been hoping for for nearly 20-years now so credit where credit is due. My only regret now is that I didn't buy two at the original backed price of $29, but if they ever go on clearance, I'm picking up a dozen of them!

 

Love that it's wireless, dig that it tells you the battery percentage when you power it on, is both a joystick/spinner, Atari-logo is illuminated the entire time... what else can really be said? It's kinda bad ass!