B&W/Color switch

[+atari2600land]

My Atari 7800 has a much cleaner display than my 2600, so I'm beginning to use it for 2600 games as well, but there doesn't seem to be a b&w/color switch on it. All I can find is the channel  2/3 switch (which isn't helped much by the fact that instead of channel numbers they used random shapes.) How do I play my 2600 games in b&w on my 7800?

[Shawn]

2 minutes ago, atari2600land said:

My Atari 7800 has a much cleaner display than my 2600, so I'm beginning to use it for 2600 games as well, but there doesn't seem to be a b&w/color switch on it. All I can find is the channel  2/3 switch (which isn't helped much by the fact that instead of channel numbers they used random shapes.) How do I play my 2600 games in b&w on my 7800?

 

The pause button on the 7800 is the BW switch as you would expect on the 2600. Unfortunately the 7800 pause button is a momentary switch so it will present troubles for games that you need a latching switch type use to switch from BW to Color as you could with a 2600.

[+atari2600land]

I'm having trouble turning the 7800 on. I have to press extra hard on the power button to make the thing turn on. This is related because the Pause button is just to the right of the Start button and when I have my 2600 game in and press the pause button extra hard, it doesn't do anything. So is my b&w/color switch now related to the power problem I'm having?

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Sounds like both the power and pause switches likely need to be replaced.

[Shawn]

Replace your console buttons. They are spent.

[+atari2600land]

How on earth would I do that?

[+-^CrossBow^-]

16 minutes ago, atari2600land said:

How on earth would I do that?

Replacement buttons for the 7800 are easy to get from console5.com here:

 

https://console5.com/store/tactile-switch-12mm-x-4-5mm-atari-7800-power-pause-select-reset.html

 

7800 has 4 of these along the front of the mainboard. Don't even have to take off the RF shield technically to replace them. 

 

This is a couple minute job for someone with the right tools if you know someone in your area handy with a soldering iron. There are several among us in these forums that can do this for you as well, but I would find someone close to save on shipping, or like I said someone near where you live to not have to worry about shipping it at all.

 

[+DrVenkman]

BTW, those buttons are only a few cents cheaper from Digi-Key, even in large quantities (I've bought many hundreds of them for use with 5200 controllers). 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

4 hours ago, DrVenkman said:

BTW, those buttons are only a few cents cheaper from Digi-Key, even in large quantities (I've bought many hundreds of them for use with 5200 controllers). 

I actually don't use these switches myself but was just tossing in a quick link where I knew right where to find them.

 

[+DrVenkman]

16 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

I actually don't use these switches myself but was just tossing in a quick link where I knew right where to find them.

 

Well, my point was mostly that Console5 isn’t ripping people off. That same switch design - size, pin spacing, etc. - has been around for decades now and they’re really cheap. The same switch is usually included in most Arduino or general electronics learning kits and homebrew project boards because it’s ubiquitous. I’ve soldered literally over a thousand of these into 5200 controller boards and never had an issue with them. So if someone replaces a stock 7800 switch with one of them, I’m 100% sure it will be fine.

[Shawn]

I just put a new set into a 7800 recently myself. The ones from digikey that is

 

[+atari2600land]

I got a new Atari 7800 in the mail today. Its power button works great. I don't have to mash the thing several times to get it to turn on. But the pause button in 2600 mode only displays the black and white colors when it's held down. When I unpress it, the colors come back on again.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Just now, atari2600land said:

I got a new Atari 7800 in the mail today. Its power button works great. I don't have to mash the thing several times to get it to turn on. But the pause button in 2600 mode only displays the black and white colors when it's held down. When I unpress it, the colors come back on again.

That is correct and normal operation on the 7800. It is a momentary switch like the power button so the pause can't be used as a traditional black n white or color mode switch. I've found that most games that used that switch have an alternate method you can use. On starmaster you can use the difficulty switches to change to starchart mode as well I believe, and in Space Shuttle, the 1st player difficult acts as an backup Oms burn. It is almost like Activision at least, almost saw this as being needed in the future?

 

Phaser Patrol is about the only game where it might be an issue as since you can have that switch stay down, it just means your shield are on all the time so you drain energy a little faster than you would otherwise but the game is still totally playable.

 

[0078265317]

cant you just hold the pause button down with a piece of tape.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

18 hours ago, 0078265317 said:

cant you just hold the pause button down with a piece of tape.

I suppose but the buttons sit fairly flush to the top of the console to begin with. Again, on the games I want to play, this is a non issue for me. I don't mind playing phasor patrol with the shields on at all times and other games that required it seem to have other documented ways to do the same without use of that specific switch.

 

The real solution would be to wire in a switch to do the same thing or even a remote pause function from the controller that you could simply hold down do to the same thing when needed.

 

[0078265317]

I found a temp solution.  A clamp works great.

 

[Trebor]

10 hours ago, 0078265317 said:

I found a temp solution.  A clamp works great.

 

In case you are not aware...

 

If you're Jonesing for a less colorized looking Space Invaders under the 7800, such an option is present under Bob's fantastic Space Invaders port.

 

To retain more of the 2600 feel, but the look of the Arcade original, there is Space Invaders Arcade available as well.  Another option is Space Instigators.

[XEGS'r]

Actually, there is a way to re-enable the B&W/Color switch as a switch rather than a button, and the procedure is not too complicated. All you have to do is ground pin 21 on the RIOT chip. What I've done is wired up pin 21 on said RIOT chip to the central post of my channel switch in the back of my 7800 and cut the trace on the left position of the switch. It works perfectly every time! Kind of surprised no one else has mentioned that here.

 

There are a few caveats:

 

• The above procedure assumes you have removed your RF module, and you will need to put the channel switch back if you removed it.
• The wire from the RIOT chip to the rear switch will need to be long, so some tape will need to be involved.
• You will need to remember to keep the switch in the left position at all times for 7800 games; otherwise, when you start a 7800 game, the game will forever be in pause mode until you flip the switch back.

Anybody else out there try this mod? I'll post some pictures of what I've done later tonight.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

34 minutes ago, XEGS'r said:

Actually, there is a way to re-enable the B&W/Color switch as a switch rather than a button, and the procedure is not too complicated. All you have to do is ground pin 21 on the RIOT chip. What I've done is wired up pin 21 on said RIOT chip to the central post of my channel switch in the back of my 7800 and cut the trace on the left position of the switch. It works perfectly every time! Kind of surprised no one else has mentioned that here.

 

There are a few caveats:

 

• The above procedure assumes you have removed your RF module, and you will need to put the channel switch back if you removed it.
• The wire from the RIOT chip to the rear switch will need to be long, so some tape will need to be involved.
• You will need to remember to keep the switch in the left position at all times for 7800 games; otherwise, when you start a 7800 game, the game will forever be in pause mode until you flip the switch back.

Anybody else out there try this mod? I'll post some pictures of what I've done later tonight.

That is a good solution but not that practical since it is on the back of the console and depending on certain things, that switch isn't that easy to get too. On many 7800s that switch is nearly flush with the back of the case and almost requires having to use the point of something stuck in there to flip the channel options.

 

Also, unless requested or the modulator is faulty, I tend to leave them installed and fully working on the consoles I've serviced. 

[Synthpopalooza]

The game Space Shuttle, if I am not mistaken, requires usage of the color/bw switch ...

[XEGS'r]

Here's the B&W/Color switch mod I've done for any who wish to implement it. Very simple, but as Crossbow has pointed out, it's not the most convenient, and it requires that the RF module be removed. I personally don't see the need for RF modules in today's age, but I totally understand that there are those who wish to keep their consoles as stock as possible. One good advantage here is that there is no case cutting for this one. I'm going to contact my friend to see if he can design and 3D-print a small "cap" that can be put over the switch to lengthen it so you don't have to use a tool to get to it from the back.

 

Also for the record, are quite a few games that use the B&W/Color switch for other than changing the game from color to B&W. Xonox's Ghost Manor uses the switch to change your in-game character. I'm aware that the 2600 version of Ghostbusters also uses it during the purchasing sequence in the game.

 

A more ideal solution would be to swap out the pause momentary push-button on the PCB with some kind of latching push-button mechanism, but this may require the plunger on the pause button itself to be trimmed.

 

What do you guys think?

[+-^CrossBow^-]

13 hours ago, Synthpopalooza said:

The game Space Shuttle, if I am not mistaken, requires usage of the color/bw switch ...

B/W/Color switch is used to turn on the OMS thrusters for certain maneuvers in the game yes. However that said...

 

I would have you look at page 2 of the Space Shuttle manual where this was clearly thought out ahead of time. Mainly for the Sears SVA II console it seems, but can also be applied to the 7800 as well. That is how I used to play Space Shuttle on the 7800 was using this method.