Sega cartridge bone yarded, repairable?

[J Dee]

I picked this up about a decade ago, but just dusted off my system to go back in time. I couldn't get it started so I went in for a deep clean and it is obvious this was bone yarded. The capacitor, resistor(s), and 4 pins were cut. Lost cause or worth the effort (I really only want to play the game and went to look for a replacement to see genuine copies of Dune, Bartle for Arrakis are 70 plus bucks). 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Well, the most difficult part would be soldering new legs to what is left of the originals sticking out of the dip packages on the corners. The resistor and cap can be gotten easy enough to replace out but it would take some work to get new legs or at least some component leads soldered back in for the main IC to work.

 

[J Dee]

1 hour ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Well, the most difficult part would be soldering new legs to what is left of the originals sticking out of the dip packages on the corners. The resistor and cap can be gotten easy enough to replace out but it would take some work to get new legs or at least some component leads soldered back in for the main IC to work.

 

So, what your saying is it is possible! Would soldering this close to the chip run the chip? I'm debating on taking it to a guy in town who works component level or giving it a go myself. Were the same resistors and capacitor sizes used for most cartridges? 

 

Funny thing is, I'll get the sega logo but then it stops. So I have hope it is still working. 

[bah]

I've done it before when a leg breaks off flush to the housing. You can even cut back the plastic on the chip to expose new metal. Use a dab of flux and the cutoff leg of a resistor.

 

The real question is why the cut legs.  I would assume either the previous owner had a dead cart and was going to salvage the board or that it was not a very good game so it was only worth experimenting on. 

Edited January 5, 2021 by bah

[Keatah]

I've replaced the legs before, easy stuff.

 

But what's all that blue shit? The blue dots by the feethrough vias. That corrosion? If so you will need to replace the PCB. Or somehow address it by neutralizing it and reflowing each one.

 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Keatah

[+-^CrossBow^-]

1 hour ago, Keatah said:

I've replaced the legs before, easy stuff.

 

But what's all that blue shit? The blue dots by the feethrough vias. That corrosion? If so you will need to replace the PCB. Or somehow address it by neutralizing it and reflowing each one.

 

The blue is normal. Not sure exactly what it is, but many sega carts have it covering over the vias on the board. Likely some sort of conformal coating perhaps to prevent corrosion through the vias and ultimately damaging the traces like Tengen carts are known to do.

 

[J Dee]

2 hours ago, bah said:

I've done it before when a leg breaks off flush to the housing. You can even cut back the plastic on the chip to expose new metal. Use a dab of flux and the cutoff leg of a resistor.

 

The real question is why the cut legs.  I would assume either the previous owner had a dead cart and was going to salvage the board or that it was not a very good game so it was only worth experimenting on. 

Dune: Battle for Arrakis, the cart alone is worth about $50 (working of course). I picked this up years ago for $5.00 (prior to the "retro gamers"). I'm hoping that it was done for the purpose of fixing another cart; though cutting the ROM seems very juvenile and almost like it was a giant F-U. I can't really think of a reason I would personally do that. 

 

1 hour ago, Keatah said:

I've replaced the legs before, easy stuff.

 

But what's all that blue shit? The blue dots by the feethrough vias. That corrosion? If so you will need to replace the PCB. Or somehow address it by neutralizing it and reflowing each one.

 

The blue dots are just like that on rampart and several other carts I have. I'm not certain if these are replacement boards or just the cheap boards of the time. 

 

 

I've got a local guy who does board level fixes; he seemed like it would be no big deal to do everything for $15.00. I just have to find what the resistor and capacitor values now. Anyone have a cartridge to take a picture of or a good place to post to and try to get one? I've sent out several on EBay postings but no cigar yet. 

[Keatah]

It costs time and resources to put the protective conformal blue dots in place. So likely not cheap board.

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

12 hours ago, J Dee said:

I've got a local guy who does board level fixes; he seemed like it would be no big deal to do everything for $15.00. I just have to find what the resistor and capacitor values now. Anyone have a cartridge to take a picture of or a good place to post to and try to get one? I've sent out several on EBay postings but no cigar yet. 

Not a bad price at all for repairing the board. I can't be sure unless I take my cartridge apart to look and I'm willing to do that later if I can remember. But most of the carts seem to use a 47µf 6.3v or above filter cap in them. So very common and anything of that value should work provided it will physically fit in. Not sure on the resistor value but again, I can take my actual Dune cart apart later this evening and get those exact values.

 

[J Dee]

33 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Not a bad price at all for repairing the board. I can't be sure unless I take my cartridge apart to look and I'm willing to do that later if I can remember. But most of the carts seem to use a 47µf 6.3v or above filter cap in them. So very common and anything of that value should work provided it will physically fit in. Not sure on the resistor value but again, I can take my actual Dune cart apart later this evening and get those exact values.

 

If you do take it apart and let me know, I would be very appreciative. I could go buy another one, but there is a feeling of fulfillment when you get something working that was a dead cause! 

[J Dee]

12 hours ago, Keatah said:

It costs time and resources to put the protective conformal blue dots in place. So likely not cheap board.

 

You're probably right, I'm judging yesterday by today's standards. Things were made to last then and that was probably the case with this too.  

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Sorry, I had meant to do this last night but got busy on other stuff. Here are some pics of my Dune cart. The actual cap that goes on the right is indeed a 47µf 16v radial electrolytic cap. However, it isn't a resistor on the other side but another cap. A green colored 22nf ceramic disc cap in fact. Or at least that is what I show to have installed on my working Dune cart. However, I've noticed your PCB is laid out a little differently and the what I can make out of the last few digits/characters on the cart you have posted on the rom don't match with mine. Is yours a PAL copy? If so, it might be different components?

 

 

[J Dee]

57 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Sorry, I had meant to do this last night but got busy on other stuff. Here are some pics of my Dune cart. The actual cap that goes on the right is indeed a 47µf 16v radial electrolytic cap. However, it isn't a resistor on the other side but another cap. A green colored 22nf ceramic disc cap in fact. Or at least that is what I show to have installed on my working Dune cart. However, I've noticed your PCB is laid out a little differently and the what I can make out of the last few digits/characters on the cart you have posted on the rom don't match with mine. Is yours a PAL copy? If so, it might be different components?

 

 

 

 

I went looking to see if I could identify the chip by the number, the short of it is I was unable to locate it.

The cart number For Dune:

MPR-15043 W52

9231KD029 

Rampart                                                    Dune: Battle for Arrakkis

https://www.smspower.org/Development/ROMPartNumbers - site that seemed to have the most games listed, had neither of these or dune listed. 

 

I couldn't say if it is PAL or NTSC, I'm not even all that smart on this and I don't know if I would know the difference. I picked up the cartridge in Oklahoma some 5+ years ago. I was attending a military school and had some free time on my hands...there isn't much to do in Oklahoma except gamble and drink (I dabble in both however, I'm fluent in neither). I picked up a Sega and several games. I was never able to get Dune to work, but I feel I only spent $5 - 10 on it and was deep into desert, jungle, and urban strike, so I just put it aside. 

 

Everything about this scream spitefulness. Before pulling it apart, I was able to get the no unauthorized reproduction screen to come up. Perhaps, the chipset isn't for Dune, but the individual could get more for Dune, so they swapped out chipsets and knew enough to not let the game load so if it is tested, they would hopefully see the initial screen load up, decide that is works, and throw it aside for the $4.00 extra of store credit. 

 

If you look at the Dune Cart PCB, you'll notice that the pins on the radial cap side of the board are cut from top and bottom, versus next to each other. The solder on the back of the cart looks factory done. 

 

With all that being said, I am kind of determined to get it working just to see...though I am in the market for a Dune and have a lot lined up that includes Dune, a Sega and several other titles for $150 that I haven't committed to just yet (I will still try to get this game going).   

 

What is the harm if I put the wrong hardware in? 

[J Dee]

Oh, and I meant to mention, thank you! Not only for the picture but for taking the time to help!

 

I also am updating this edit with the following link: 

http://www.guardiana.net/MDG-Database/Mega Drive/Dune II %3Bdouble%3B Battle for Arrakis/#v1578

 

I finally found this and this, I believe definitively, shows that the game is not Dune, as you pointed out because of the PCB number. Now, maybe I can use this site to find the number. 

Edited January 8, 2021 by J Dee

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Yeap that PCB shot of the US Genesis release looks just like mine and the last few digits on the masked rom also match mine. So I would say the cart you have isn't a Dune cart and it most likely isn't a Dune masked rom either. BTW, the other cart you posted with the glass looking component on the left side of the rom chip? That is actually an early surface mount capacitor inside a larger glass tube so it could be soldered in like a normal axial capacitor of the day. 

 

[J Dee]

On 1/7/2021 at 11:37 PM, -^CrossBow^- said:

Yeap that PCB shot of the US Genesis release looks just like mine and the last few digits on the masked rom also match mine. So I would say the cart you have isn't a Dune cart and it most likely isn't a Dune masked rom either. BTW, the other cart you posted with the glass looking component on the left side of the rom chip? That is actually an early surface mount capacitor inside a larger glass tube so it could be soldered in like a normal axial capacitor of the day. 

 

I think I am going to practice on my [absent] soldering skills on this. I imagine someone here buys the caps, where do you normally purchase these from? I think I am going to try the 47 and 22 mentioned above (or any suggestions anyone here might have) and see if I can get it to play to find out exactly what it is. 

 

Thank all of you for your help! 

[geneb]

Has the MPR-15043 part been definitively identified as Dune, or is it something else?  I've got a few uncut, populated panels of Sega cartridge PCBs with masked ROMs matching that part number, but I've not been able to identify it.

Here's an image of one of the boards:

 

Thanks!  (and sorry for dragging open a year+ old thread!)

 

g.

[+jgkspsx]

Neat! I love seeing PCB sheets. I didn’t realize they populated them before cutting.

 

Assuming the releases are sequential, it seems it was made between Super Monaco GP II and Chuck Rock: https://gendev.spritesmind.net/mirrors/www.nepereny.com/misc2/games/sort/index.html

 

Turns out that Chuck Rock was released almost a year before Super Monaco GP 2, so that doesn’t really help ?

 

What a crazy story. Dune: The Battle for Arrakis is a great game and I highly recommend it if you want to play an RTS from Westwood Studios before they hit it big.

[geneb]

Sadly, I don't have a Sega Genesis to check one of these with - even if I could force myself to break one of the panels up.

 

g.

[Tanooki]

I hope that game was recovered.  I really need to get that one back, it's part of a very short list...but that price.

 

They did such a good job on it that it's surprising.  The Genesis had some really odd way about getting some quality release PC DOS conversions to it and other old computers too.  You got some Test Drive titles, High Heat Baseball, LHX attack chopper, 688 attack sub, one of the utterly most amazing-- Star Control, and then there's Dune.  I'm missing a few others, but the point is they largely were done very well, Dune being peak awesome (with Star Control) and really should be saved if all possible.