Rolo Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Detachable Joysticks for the EPOCH SUPER CASSETTE VISION I just modded my SCV. The quality of the SCV-joysticks is questionable, which kills much of the fun of the small game library. First step for an improvement is to make the original joysticks detachable. This is what I'll show now: After disassembling the console, cutouts for the two sockets must be made. I chose a convenient position in the bay. It turned out, that space is very limited on the right side. Next time, I'd probably try a different position, like on the backside of the console, behind the Cassette port. I'm still using the original five pole joystick cables, which I cut off. For future use I added a power supply (VCD, GND). Power supply needed:after desoldering a cap at the cartridge connector, I soldered in a connector to draw the power from and put the cap on the backside of the board.. Now, the art of putting the case together again ... Oh no! Too narrow at the keyboard. I had to make a little notch at the rim of the keyboard for the back-part of the DSUB-connector. Just a little bit, since there is a line running at the rim of the pcb! The pcb is made of some very uncomfortable, aggressive material. Very dusty when mechanically working on it. You notice it immediately in the mouth and throat. Better do it outside the house! There is not much space for the cables and putting it all together is kind of complicated. It's probably better to use flat cables or at least strip off the grey isolation of the original cables! After a while of playing around and trying different approaches, I finally managed to put the two shells together. ? A little test in the end. Yes, it is working ... - Rolo ? 5 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/315672-super-cassette-vision-detachable-joysticks/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatPix Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Neat! I guess, given the cabling and the fact it's hardwired, that the SCV use direct contact, à la Atari with two buttons? Is that compatible with any standard? Atari, MSX two-buttons maybe? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/315672-super-cassette-vision-detachable-joysticks/#findComment-4721541 Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 My first thought was some kind of matrix arrangement like the Sord M5 which has 6 pins to register four directions and two fire buttons. In particular as Rolo added separate wires both for 5V and GND to the DE9 connector suggests that the original pinout doesn't have a common ground. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/315672-super-cassette-vision-detachable-joysticks/#findComment-4721710 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted January 10, 2021 Author Share Posted January 10, 2021 Unfortunately it's completely non-standard. A classic Atari joystick will not work. I know, the decision to take a DSUB-9pin connector is misleading and might be no clever choice. ? I was thinking of taking a DIN connector, but I do not like soldering those and I did not have DIN-connectors in the drawer. A SCV joystick uses four direction switches and two buttons, communicating via 5 wires with the board. Or more exactly, since two lines are in common (PortA0 and PortA1), 8 wires are used for two sticks (8 direction switches and 4 buttons). Obviously this doesn't work straight forward, but needs some scanning, like a keyboard matrix. Without having looked at real signals with a scope, the schematics show, that: Port is when on Pin connected pressed controller to ------------------------------------------ PA0 PB0 left A PA0 PB1 up A PA0 PB2 fire1 A PA0 PB3 left B PA0 PB4 right B PA0 PB5 fire2 B PA1 PB0 down A PA1 PB1 right A PA1 PB2 fire2 A PA1 PB3 down B PA1 PB4 up B PA1 PB5 fire1 B The remaining port-pins of Port A and B are used for scanning the 12 buttons of the keypad of the console. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/315672-super-cassette-vision-detachable-joysticks/#findComment-4721755 Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Probably some diodes involved too? Compare with the M5 pinout, except I believe all the inputs are separate for each of the two controllers. https://easyeda.com/blahjedi/test Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/315672-super-cassette-vision-detachable-joysticks/#findComment-4721785 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted January 10, 2021 Author Share Posted January 10, 2021 Yes sure, the port pins of port B are isolated from each other with the help of diodes to prevent shorts, when more than one switch is closed. Four diodes inside each controller. 3 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/315672-super-cassette-vision-detachable-joysticks/#findComment-4721806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatPix Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Neat! This photo makes me realize I never opened the joystick of my Yeno French export model. This logo is really intricate when you know that no one but a few people would ever see it... Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/315672-super-cassette-vision-detachable-joysticks/#findComment-4722748 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted January 11, 2021 Author Share Posted January 11, 2021 That's what is inside ? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/315672-super-cassette-vision-detachable-joysticks/#findComment-4722756 Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 So is the plan to make Y-cables where one tail has some sort of built-in matrix multiplexer that lets you connect an Atari style joystick, while having the original controller plugged in parallel in order to use the keypad? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/315672-super-cassette-vision-detachable-joysticks/#findComment-4722881 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted January 12, 2021 Author Share Posted January 12, 2021 No, the plan is to make a new - hopefully better - joystick for the console. In the beginning I was thinking of an adapter, too. But wiring is to different. ATARI style joysticks connect every switch to common ground, so they are all connected to each other. The Super Cassette Vision does not work that way. I'll report in this thread... ?️ Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/315672-super-cassette-vision-detachable-joysticks/#findComment-4723282 Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 I know. Many years ago I begun on an Atari to M5 adapter which would use some 74xx chip to multiplex signals in a matrix. I got as far as soldering a lot of diodes, the IC holder and a 9V battery connector since the computer didn't have any power in the connectors. Then I gave up, and rewired two spare PC gamepads to my liking. Of course there was no numeric pad to include in this equation. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/315672-super-cassette-vision-detachable-joysticks/#findComment-4723311 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted January 12, 2021 Author Share Posted January 12, 2021 I see your point. A good idea! A kind of "translator"-circuit. Of course, this can be done. Could be a real old-fashioned flipflop-based decoder (anybody still remembers how to do Karnaugh maps? ?), a rom table or a microcontroller (electronic overkill) or something else. Or even simpler: some 4016 based switch rewiring. Yes, that's simple and straight forward! I may do some thinking. Thanks for your input. Still a two button joystick would be required. The numeric game selection pad of the console is not a problem. It simply stays where it is. No need to have it on the joystick. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/315672-super-cassette-vision-detachable-joysticks/#findComment-4723390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 I feel stupid not to look at the console. The numpad of course is part of the system, not the controllers... scratch what I wrote above about an Y-cable. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/315672-super-cassette-vision-detachable-joysticks/#findComment-4723429 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted March 22, 2021 Author Share Posted March 22, 2021 A custom-made Joystick for the Super Cassette Vision I finally made some progress with the project. To make joysticks detachable, but having nothing to attach, is not really attractive. So I started working on part 2 of the SCV-project. In the beginning, it felt like being an old Arcade-guy building wooden cabinets out of plywood. ? I've been using this kind of case already for a VECTREX controller and I have a few of those in the drawer. (https://atariage.com/forums/topic/240542-new-vectrex-joystick-kit-for-sale/?do=findComment&comment=4681514) The auto-firing board also is a re-used part of the Vectrex Controller Kit, a little bit modified. For this console, two Arcade-buttons are enough. I tried an industry 4-axis joystick, which proved to be a good choice. This type is sold in many electronics shops and on ebay. It's easy to find and not very expensive, compared to the quality you get. Some cabling is required. An analog switch IC (i.e. CD4066, two of the four switches used), too, which is operated manually by the buttons or repeatedly by the auto-firing circuit. Simple GND-switching like on the 2600 is not working, since a defined port signal of the SCV's processor port (PB2/PB5) has to be fed through. The schematics of the SCV-joysticks are available in the internet. Power & ground, needed by the auto-firing board, are fetched from the console, with two additional wires of the cable. This is shown in the post above. This is the whole set-up, somewhat larger than the original controller. A functional check with NEBULA and BOULDER DASH, played from the Dragon Multi-Cartridge attached to the SCV-adapter. What a difference it makes! A decent controller changes games a lot. Suddenly, there is some fun❗ Pushing manufacturing costs, by making cheap controllers, is not a good idea. A crappy controller spoils the whole system. The SCV could use some more well designed games. It is a quite powerful console, with a much too small (and odd) game library. 3 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/315672-super-cassette-vision-detachable-joysticks/#findComment-4784812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 "Somewhat larger"? You made a controller easily more than the hypotenuse of the system! Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/315672-super-cassette-vision-detachable-joysticks/#findComment-4784816 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted March 22, 2021 Author Share Posted March 22, 2021 Almost... Well, size matters. ? I've got big hands. I like it, if I can put the controller in front of me on the table and if it is not so tiny. And what is more, I had this case ready in the drawer, so I just used it. Sure, it could have been made 5 to 10 centimeters shorter, but this was no intention of mine. 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/315672-super-cassette-vision-detachable-joysticks/#findComment-4784828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Yeah, why should only the Neo Geo have huge controllers relative to the size of the base unit? 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/315672-super-cassette-vision-detachable-joysticks/#findComment-4785080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 I'm planning to put the console and the joystick on eBay, soon. Somebody interested? - Rolo Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/315672-super-cassette-vision-detachable-joysticks/#findComment-5390847 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 On 1/17/2024 at 12:11 PM, Rolo said: I'm planning to put the console and the joystick on eBay, soon. Somebody interested? - Rolo Definitely interested. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/315672-super-cassette-vision-detachable-joysticks/#findComment-5393362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted January 28 Author Share Posted January 28 It's on eBay now: Super Cassette Vision Nr. 335232048088 - Rolo Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/315672-super-cassette-vision-detachable-joysticks/#findComment-5398657 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 (edited) I missed out on the ebay bid for this cool custom controller. However, I saw a Japan Yahoo site selling an SCV with a SNES controller mod. It took me some time, a bunch of Google Translate and quite a few Japan website "brokers" but I finally found the controller: https://www.fromjapan.co.jp/japan/en/yahoo-auctions/search/SCV+SFC/-/ This seller is selling them individually or sold in a pair. I just bought the pair option so that link is currently gone, but it does appear that the seller will repost a new set and continues to create these custom controllers. This link is for the broker that works with the creator and ships to the US. I just placed an order, and will advise how it turns out. $60 US for the pair, awaiting the shipping and service fees for the exporter. Edited August 21 by Tominator Spelling 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/315672-super-cassette-vision-detachable-joysticks/#findComment-5519566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted August 21 Author Share Posted August 21 The bad thing is, you have to mod the console first, since the manufacturery did not use external connectors and different wiring schemes for left and right controller. So I had to define my own "standard" first. And if everybody does this, we have no common basis and no compatibility. Console and controller(s) must always stay together. I still own the console and my hand-built controller. The ebay auction was not successful. But this is ok, since it is a special and unique piece of hardware ... 🕹️ -Rolo Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/315672-super-cassette-vision-detachable-joysticks/#findComment-5519957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 Thank you for the additional info Rolo. From what I read, the creator of this product has a Left and Right controller adaper cable color coded, and the SNES controller has some kind of mod inside of it. I just paid an additional $35 for Shipping and Handling from the exporter, for the 2 controllers and adapters. Once they arrive, I'll take a peek at what was really done and report back. Honestly, I'm glad you still have your controller. Hard to replace an item that came from a labor of love and effort. Tom Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/315672-super-cassette-vision-detachable-joysticks/#findComment-5521341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 (edited) The product arrived rocket speed. I did pay for FedEx Express, but with the Yen down, that was only a couple of dollars more than UPS and DHL. They shipped this on Monday and I received it next day. Crazy. First pic is the exceptional packaging. Vacuum packed. Second Pic is the 2 SNES units individually packaged. Awesome attention to detail. Controller 1 is coded with Red Stickers (add on yourself) and 2 is blue. Surprising thing to me, is that these are 2 BRAND NEW SWITCH SNES controllers wired to DB9, with adapters for the SCV. Obviously as Rolo pointed out, they are wired differently so the Red and Blue sticker will make a difference. This is 100% professionally done, as far as packing and presentation. Air packed, individually bagged, brand new controllers, foam packing to protect paint/logos, and Red Blue Stickers to identify Player 1 and Player 2. I won't be able to test right away, but I will update when I do. I'll do some research on if they can be DB9 controllers too, but I'm doubtful as they have different wiring so that doesn't seem to be a possibility. Total cost Auction and FromJapan broker, was about $90 (for both, $45 Each). Received 2 Brand new SNES Pads and 2 custom Dongles to connect them. I do not have Rolo's assembly skills and completely admire his controller, but buying these is a pretty good option for scrub like me. I truly did not indend to hijack this thread. I apologize to Rolo for that. I was just so excited when I found an option since I did not "win" his ebay posting. (Glad Rolo still has it in his possesion). Link: https://www.fromjapan.co.jp/japan/en/yahoo-auctions/search/SCV+SFC/-/ First impression of this product and prior to using, is 100% must buy for the SCV. Tons of love put into the packing, labeling, dongle, and product. Send questions, I'll try to answer. Edited August 28 by Tominator Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/315672-super-cassette-vision-detachable-joysticks/#findComment-5523716 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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