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Software 80 Columns


Eric Rousseau

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1 minute ago, Gunstar said:

Sounds very cool. I have a Pokeymax Quad + Covox upgrade in my 800, that can play MOD files and a bunch of other stuff too. 8 channel stereo with Covox and up to 16 channels of stereo with 4 emulated Pokeys. There's a version of Pokeymax you can get with SID emulation too, maybe even stereo SID. Pokey channels can be 8-bit 3 1/2 octaves or 2 combined for 16-bit 7 octaves, Just a bunch of cool stuff can be done with it too.

Yeah, 8 channel stereo is possible. It's just amazing what you can do now!

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12 hours ago, Gunstar said:

Where and/or what is the ##atari channel?

Oh, is that an IRC? Something I'm also not familiar with, all I ever do is go to forums and websites, so I'd still need more info...if I can get on it with my Atari and Fujinet I'd love to try, But with my PC I only ever use it for forums and websites...

Yeah, it's an IRC chnnel on chat.freenode.net

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33 minutes ago, Mazzspeed said:

No 80 columns, just good 'ol 40 column mode. It actually doesn't feel at all limiting as a result, the software recently copped an update and as a result it's much faster now.

 

These youngins and their Discord, get off my lawn!!

Well, hopefully I can join you guys there once I get my Fujinet up and running. But I don't have the proper type of USB cable to hook up to it and download firmware and other stuff yet to get going. I have the same issue with my new 3D printer that I got, and also didn't include a USB cable, and I don't have the right type for either one, so I can't do much with either until the cables I ordered off Amazon get here...

 

And, of course, they are both different types so I had to buy 2. Mini and Micro, and all I have on hand are either USB A, USB B or USB C. I do have a couple Micro ones, from my older smart phones,but they don't work anymore. I used to have a couple of the Mini's, but I couldn't find them.

 

20210120_163749.thumb.jpg.8316f477520e01547e8051d0bc16883b.jpg

 

 

Edited by Gunstar
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20 minutes ago, Gunstar said:

Well, hopefully I can join you guys there once I get my Fujinet up and running. But I don't have the proper type of USB cable to hook up to it and download firmware and other stuff yet to get going. I have the same issue with my new 3D printer that I got, and also didn't include a USB cable, and I don't have the right type for either one, so I can't do much with either until the cables I ordered off Amazon get here...

 

And, of course, they are both different types so I had to buy 2. Mini and Micro, and all I have on hand are either USB A, USB B or USB C.

 

20210120_163749.thumb.jpg.8316f477520e01547e8051d0bc16883b.jpg

 

 

I use the mini usb adapter off my Daughter's Leap Frog game on my WiModem232! It's such a pain, even printers don't come with usb-b cables anymore - I've gotta keep one in the car for when I go to jobs.

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2 hours ago, 8bitguy1 said:

Is there an IRC client that works with Fujinet?

Well, honestly I don't know, yet. I assumed there would be or will soon be, but I'm just learning to use it and find out what there is still.

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Very cool! And the thread is from 2008! So @Urchlay decided to call it 'Fujichat' long before (over a decade!) Fujinet was even a thought! What a coincidence!:o Is there a newer version out there than 0.3? I would have thought it would be updated to a newer version in the last decade+. Is @Urchlay still around? Is it a dead project and this is all we can hope for from it? Of course I didn't read the whole thread yet, so maybe an update was mentioned later in the thread? I'll go check...

 

The link for download on the first post doesn't work anymore, where can it be downloaded from, if anywhere anymore?

 

Edit, Ok, went through the thread and the last posts by Urchlay were in 2019 and it looks like the latest versions are either 0.4 or 0.5pre3. there are a couple places in the thread to download directly from AA, but none of Urchlay's links work at all.

 

Here is what appears to be the latest versions in this .zip I just pulled from that thread, just so you don't have to go to it if you don't want too.

FujiChat.zip

Edited by Gunstar
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2 hours ago, Gunstar said:

Edit, Ok, went through the thread and the last posts by Urchlay were in 2019 and it looks like the latest versions are either 0.4 or 0.5pre3. there are a couple places in the thread to download directly from AA, but none of Urchlay's links work at all.

When I posted I thought the software was for Fujinet, I found the later posts first and didn't check when the thread was started.

It's been over a year since Urchlay logged on here.

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6 hours ago, Gunstar said:

I haven't tried it yet, but I'm not only new to Fujinet still, and learning, but I've never even used a modem with Atari or ever been to a BBS or IRC, etc.

You need to get that beast online!

 

I'm still working out the ins and outs of the A8 line, but I get online with my C64 every single day and chat via BBS's. The community is growing at a rapid rate, the BBS I frequent the most, Particles BBS, is so difficult to get onto even the sysop complains he can't get on! Don't 'dial in' for a week and you return to over one hundred messages!

 

The advent of Wifi modems and Ethernet solutions is definitely one of the most enjoyable uses of your retro computer IMO. One thing I do find interesting is how good older terminal software was, client's under my main Linux desktop still give me issues from time to time, under my C64 and Amiga they just work and they work reliably. Having said that, terminal clients on the C64 are still being updated at a rapid rate.

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Just an update regarding software 80 columns on the 1084S. I know it's a C64, but I made a display cable and used fully shielded cable for both the chroma and luma connections, and using Striketerm 2014 in software 80 columns I think the results are quite impressive. In fact the camera doesn't really do the end result justice.

 

gqnOwJK.jpg

Edited by Mazzspeed
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5 hours ago, Mazzspeed said:

Just an update regarding software 80 columns on the 1084S. I know it's a C64, but I made a display cable and used fully shielded cable for both the chroma and luma connections, and using Striketerm 2014 in software 80 columns I think the results are quite impressive. In fact the camera doesn't really do the end result justice.

 

gqnOwJK.jpg

I posted this picture, I think in another 80-column thread what Flickerterm 80 looks like on my LCD monitor. The really isn't any difference in sharpness and read-ability between this and when it is displayed on my 1084S. Though in real life the screen flickers because it uses some special interlace technique or something to get the 80-columns. I imagine it's probably less memory than graphics 8 4x8 fonts for 80-column. My point still being that with my Atari computers with their video out upgrades, S-video output and fantastic conversion to VGA 640x480 or better progressive scan signals, I don't need a hardware 80-column solution at all. I'll use it if and when I get it, like with VBXE (which I'd get for it's graphics, not 80-column text). Software 80-column only sucks if you are trying to use RF or composite out, or if the chroma/luma (S-video) signal sucks on your particular Atari, otherwise good vintage CRT monitors with S-video or better, or modern LCD, etc. displays with S-video in or using a converter in-between make software 80-columns look not only acceptable, but very clean and readable. Which makes yester-year's "must have 80-column hardware" for practical 80-column support a thing of the past, and it's really only for less memory in a practical way, and preferring 8x8 fonts is just that, preference, but not necessary. Even hardware like Bit-3 for the 800 only had a composite output on it and the  XEP-80 only does composite out too, so they weren't the best they could be either. I've heard you can plug their composite out into just the luma in on monitors like the 1084S with chroma/luma and that would be make it sharper, like true S-video,

 

20210122_075052.thumb.jpg.d2711e6c15ee07ae11d72fcccc79a821.jpg

Edited by Gunstar
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I remember using flickerterm in the late 90's with a mono green monitor - it had a phosphor persistence that really minimized the flicker compared to the color TV/monitor.

 

Also, flickerterm uses wider 4x8 characters instead of the more common 3x8 - since the alternation between odd and even characters kind of helped draw a mental "line" between the adjacent pixels between characters. ?

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1 hour ago, Gunstar said:

Software 80-column only sucks if you are trying to use RF or composite out...

True, the artifact colors really interfere with readability. ACE80 has a feature allowing the user to change background and foreground colors to minimize that.

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2 hours ago, ClausB said:

True, the artifact colors really interfere with readability. ACE80 has a feature allowing the user to change background and foreground colors to minimize that.

That works well with SDX and 64/80 column too. My config.sys is set to load up one or the other and then I have a couple of poke commands in it to set the colors for the best sharpness and contrast that is easy on my eyes and subdues any remaining artifact shadow of green and purple (or whatever your Atari shows). that you get with S-video, even on PAL machines. White on black is the worst combination for artifacting of course, assuming you don't want artifact colors otherwise it's the best. You can also change the colors in TLWP, IIRC. And of course a couple of poke commands let's you change colors with Omniview OS too (I never like the default color choices for it). Any software 80 column driver should be able to changed colors with poke commands or equivalents  if it works in the standard E: and you can use it for programming languages or DOS's like SpartaDOS that let you use poke commands. Knowing SDX, but not fully, I wouldn't be surprised if there's some other SDX command for setting the screen color that I don't know, because pokes work for me.

 

I guess with Atari terminal programs it depends on if they work in the standard E: display and don't change the display colors when loading or allow changing them if they have their own software 80 column routine built-in instead of relying on E: compatibility for external 80 column software. I have never actually used any terminal software on an Atari, as I didn't have a modem back in the day, not due to the cost of a modem, but due to it's speed and the on-going telephone costs with those slow modems. I just recently got Fujinet, so now I'll be learning R: and N: command use at the same time. And learning to use terminal software on the Atari for the first time. So I'll find out soon enough which software is best for 80-column support and working with Fujinet.

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A great number of hardware 80 column devices in the day used composite out as technically they were supposed to be connected to a monochrome green or amber screen monitor, in which case composite out is fine and the resulting IQ is actually quite impressive. Try to mix a chroma signal in there and it all goes to hell.

 

Considering the 1084S isn't really the best monitor for software 80 columns, I'm actually quite impressed with the end result. If you're using chroma and luma (S-Video), make sure both the chroma and luma cables have their own shielding, that's all I can say!

Edited by Mazzspeed
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9 hours ago, David_P said:

Software 80 columns with Sophia 2 is magnificent.

I agree.  I've got a Sophia on my Atari 130XE and a VBXE in my Atari 1200XL.

 

I do prefer the VBXE, of course, but the Sophia isn't so bad, it makes the 80 column workable.    

Edited by Mark2008
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