Mark2008 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 5 hours ago, 8bitguy1 said: Pic? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk The Sophia (and I have rev. c, not sophia 2) looks just like an emulator. So, if you load up Last Word in software 80-column mode on an emulator, you can see what it looks like....because it is literally the same. This pic is from FJC's website. It is the software 80 column mode, not the VBXE mode. (You can tell because it is the 3 pixel font). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) I thought it is time to show the SDX alternative to hardware or software 80-column. If you don't want to feel as claustrophobic in the 40 column norm, and even if the image is clear maybe you just don't like the width of 80 column letters or whatever, I've found SDX's 64-column mode quite lovely. I actually use it for all my SDX needs as well as with Basic XE and Mac/65 environments. I really only use 80-columns with The Last Word anymore. Con64 gives you breathing room while offering 5x8 characters with most letters 4 pixels wide like hardware 80-column fonts. This again is S-video quality on an LCD monitor. basically. Go ahead, ZOOM in! A couple fo POKE commands inside SDX changes colors. These screens are using: Poke 710,12 and Poke 709,4. Light grey background with darker grey text. Edited February 1, 2021 by Gunstar 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzspeed Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 2 hours ago, Gunstar said: I thought it is time to show the SDX alternative to hardware or software 80-column. If you don't want to feel as claustrophobic in the 40 column norm, and even if the image is clear maybe you just don't like the width of 80 column letters or whatever, I've found SDX's 64-column mode quite lovely. I actually use it for all my SDX needs as well as with Basic XE and Mac/65 environments. I really only use 80-columns with The Last Word anymore. Con64 gives you breathing room while offering 5x8 characters with most letters 4 pixels wide like hardware 80-column fonts. This again is S-video quality on an LCD monitor. basically. Go ahead, ZOOM in! A couple fo POKE commands inside SDX changes colors. These screens are using: Poke 710,12 and Poke 709,4. Light grey background with darker grey text. I haven't tried con 64 yet, I'll have to give it a shot. Looks great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzspeed Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 (edited) Just providing another screenshot of 80 column software I found on the C64 considering the OP asked in his last post for suggestions regarding the C64. This is Interword, naturally the image scaling on these forums and the fact I'm photographing a CRT doesn't quite do the resulting IQ justice, however I'm quite impressed! Very 'Amiga like'. I think I'll make extensive use of this. Edited February 3, 2021 by Mazzspeed 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) I love many older machines but this constant endless pushing in the c64 direction in all the threads is getting very tiresome. If you want to compare the two every time there is a chance, how about you just go by the way of making yet another comparison of the machines thread. How about getting the C= crew to come show their prowess, really flex their muscles - learn to program the Atari to see what they can push the machine to do and recreate or better all of these examples etc etc etc we keep being entreated with? Edited February 5, 2021 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzspeed Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 10 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said: I love many older machines but this constant endless pushing in the c64 direction in all the threads is getting very tiresome. If you want to compare the two every time there is a chance, how about you just go by the way of making yet another comparison of the machines thread. How about getting the C= crew to come show their prowess, really flex their muscles - learn to program the Atari to see what they can push the machine to do and recreate or better all of these examples etc etc etc we keep being entreated with? I'm not interested in comparing anything. It's not 1980 anymore, the rivalry between Commodore and Atari should be over - They're all aincent retro machines. I was commenting in a friendly enthusiastic manner, if you want to take things out of context I'll nope out, there's no need to get nasty. Go back through this thread and I always stated that if anyone has a problem just say so. Unfortunately, outside the US and possibly Europe retro gear is rare and expensive now, that most definitely includes A8 gear. I wanted to participate and I have a Commodore, terribly sorry. Unfortunately, emulation is cool and all, but it's not the same as bare metal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) Dude your are... and since it's not 1984 anymore we should know what areas are and where things go on the forums...If we want to spend a bunch of time talking commodore stuff we could make our way to that part of AtariAge that discusses it... Your friendly enthusiastic commodore related posts are popping up everywhere. If there is a way to take this commodore thing and use it to improve or move the Atari side forward please do so, that's all there is to it. Are you doing this the other way around on the C= forums and areas to the same extent you are here in the AtariAge Atari 8 bit forum? I don't see it. No reason you can't participate, there are all different areas on AtariAge to do so. I don't think anyone minds a mention every once in a while but it's just wearing me out is all. No reason to be sorry either. It's all good. Like I said, if it's to further the machine the area is dedicated to, it makes sense, if not then consider where it would relate best is what I'm thinking. Most of us have many machines from all manufacturers.. I really don't post about my TI/Apple/Compupro/et all in all the threads. The purpose being degrees of separation. Like I said I'll post in the areas meant for them and mention them in passing once in a while in others. Thanks for considering this. Edited February 5, 2021 by _The Doctor__ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzspeed Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) 54 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said: Dude your are... and since it's not 1984 anymore we should know what areas are and where things go on the forums...If we want to spend a bunch of time talking commodore stuff we could make our way to that part of AtariAge that discusses it... Your friendly enthusiastic commodore related posts are popping up everywhere. If there is a way to take this commodore thing and use it to improve or move the Atari side forward please do so, that's all there is to it. Are you doing this the other way around on the C= forums and areas to the same extent you are here in the AtariAge Atari 8 bit forum? I don't see it. No reason you can't participate, there are all different areas on AtariAge to do so. I don't think anyone minds a mention every once in a while but it's just wearing me out is all. No reason to be sorry either. It's all good. Like I said, if it's to further the machine the area is dedicated to, it makes sense, if not then consider where it would relate best is what I'm thinking. Most of us have many machines from all manufacturers.. I really don't post about my TI/Apple/Compupro/et all in all the threads. The purpose being degrees of separation. Like I said I'll post in the areas meant for them and mention them in passing once in a while in others. Thanks for considering this. Don't make out I'm the one with the problem here and not make baseless claims on my behalf. The problem here is not mine, it's so obviously yours. As I always stated right through this thread, which is evidence your claims are baseless, if anyone has a problem I'll nope out. It would have been nice if you could have acted in a friendlier manner when making such a request. It's a shame retro enthusiasts can't co-exist in a friendly and open manner, point taken. If you can't respond to this comment in a friendly manner probably best not to reply at all as I don't appreciate baseless accusations. Lovely community. Edited February 5, 2021 by Mazzspeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Take it easy guys... there will be battles worth fighting for, later... In the mean time, just smile... and let Gunstar delight us all with his rasterized magic on this one.... (I love freckles!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzspeed Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 9 minutes ago, Faicuai said: Take it easy guys... there will be battles worth fighting for, later... In the mean time, just smile... and let Gunstar delight us all with his rasterized magic on this one.... (I love freckles!!) Mamma! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, Faicuai said: Take it easy guys... there will be battles worth fighting for, later... In the mean time, just smile... and let Gunstar delight us all with his rasterized magic on this one.... (I love freckles!!) Of course you know I'll have to crop everything but the head shot, and whether the freckles will turn out nicely we will have to see, it's going to be converted to pretty low res after all! This one looks like a perfect candidate for a mirrored image too. Edited February 5, 2021 by Gunstar 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Gotta agree withn_The Doctor_ on this one I have a pair of C64’s, a 1541-II drive, a EasyFlash3 cart, and even a Pi1541 drive emulator. They’re fun and interesting machines. But there’s an entire C= forum here on AtariAge and the entire Lemon64 site to talk about them. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Gunstar said: Of course you know I'll have to crop everything but the head shot, and whether the freckles will turn out nicely we will have to see, it's going to be converted to pretty low res after all! This one looks like a perfect candidate for a mirrored image too. Wonderful idea!! Mirror it to keep cropping to a minimum!! Meanwhile, I will post later today something about SDX's new 80-col editor... FINALLY !! Edited February 5, 2021 by Faicuai 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Faicuai said: Wonderful idea!! Mirror it to keep cropping to a minimum!! Meanwhile, I will post later today something about SDX's new 80-col editor... FINALLY !! Well, the mirroring bit is intended to have the black area of the photo on the side of the Rasta screen that has less color change points and the face on the side with more. I'm not sure how mirroring it would allow me to crop less though, the Cropping bit is mostly for cutting off the length of this long photo and cutting off a bit of the white and black on both sides so the face can be "zoomed in" for more detail. I'm looking forward to see what you're posting about the 80-column editor! I assume you are referring to a replacement for the current 40-column editor that we have to put SDX back into 40-column mode to use? Will it also work in 64-column mode? Edited February 5, 2021 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 11 minutes ago, Gunstar said: I assume you are referring to a replacement for the current 40-column editor that we have to put SDX back into 40-column mode to use? Will it also work in 64-column mode? More than a replacement, it is an addition, as it REQUIRES RC_GR8.SYS running (which is Ok, as the driver takes very little RAM). Have not yet tested with 64 cols (not sure it will), but so far, seems doing pretty well. I just wish that EDX would have the option to be launched with an existing E: driver, so it would work with (say) XEP80, for example. So far, you must use SDX 80-cols. soft-drivers or VBXE drivers for it work. A GREAT addition, nonetheless. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzspeed Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, DrVenkman said: Gotta agree withn_The Doctor_ on this one I have a pair of C64’s, a 1541-II drive, a EasyFlash3 cart, and even a Pi1541 drive emulator. They’re fun and interesting machines. But there’s an entire C= forum here on AtariAge and the entire Lemon64 site to talk about them. And yet, if someone came into the Commodore forums with a genuine interest in both machines there's no way I would display such poor forum fellowmanship laying baseless accusations. I happen to think the comparison's are interesting and my intent is in no way, and never has been, malicious. I've also discussed Tandy CoCo3's and the BBC Micro. You see, I understand that each machine has it's strengths and weaknesses. I don't expect the A8, the C64, the CoCo3 or the BBC to be something they are not and enjoy each machine for their strengths. Once again - I'm sorry I don't have an A8, I have to say as a result of this community I'm not 100% sure I want one anymore as there's going to be conflict if people here expect me to believe the A8 is the only platform worth discussing limited purely by some small snippet of code as yet undescovered in one of it's many graphics modes intended to cater for the fact (and it is a fact) that the A8 is a very fragmented platform with a number of vastly differing memory configurations. I'd personally love to discuss your C64 in direct comparison to your A8 and enjoy the merits of both machines, the days in the schoolyard watching kids with C64's trade newly released titles are well behind us people. I find the forced belief as a result of certain users that machines 'need' to be segregated to their relevant communities unless you intend on highlighting machines other than the A8 negatively quite childish and pointless. Thank you for the experience, it has been an interesting one. Dump the Pi1541 and the Easyflash and get a 1541 Ultimate II+, it does what the other devices do in the one solution and so much more... Edited February 5, 2021 by Mazzspeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Well, you have pretty much thread-jacked this thread, which was NOT initially at least about C64 stuff. If you want to do a comparison thread, do one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzspeed Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 15 minutes ago, DrVenkman said: Well, you have pretty much thread-jacked this thread, which was NOT initially at least about C64 stuff. If you want to do a comparison thread, do one. Not at all, not according to the OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) as a passing mention... and he doesn't go on and on about it like you do incorporating such things in multiple threads. I do like the way some coders work to bring a project across all the platforms and machines (PLATOTERM etc.) The community isn't doing anything to you. As a member within several communities, I can attest that over the years the C= community has been the least forgiving of mentions of other machines and battles aimed from programmer to programmer and indeed their teams can get quite ridiculous, I don't see you threatening them with not using the machine of choice there and I sure don't see you endlessly doing comparisons in and all over many forums and their threads. Not quite understanding your lashing out at everybody. They are in the proper place to talk primarily about Atari stuff and occasional do light comparison on mentions of their other machines. I do the same, and normally it's about how they work together, or can emulate each other, and sometimes how it's done on or by other machines. I really enjoyed PET Frogger that came to the Atari... this required talking about the game and the code as well as the beloved machine from whence it came. Very fond memories and it all served to bring enjoyment to all involved. A nice tribute to the PET (remember Chuck Peddle mos 6502). A multitude of us enjoy many machines. We have done many a comparison and there a few threads about it. We don't go about making numerous comparisons and such talk in numbers of threads or any chance we can just because we can. (I am not wasting my time looking up all posts and quoting them, so it'll be close enough paraphrasing as usual. I know to casual, but that's the way it is) In so many words... You claimed in one form or another if there were an issue that it wouldn't be something like what is currently happening. Instead of dialing it down a notch you keep ramping it up. This doesn't seem at all like a productive way to go about it. Edited February 5, 2021 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark2008 Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Well since we have all this 8-bit love going on, I will mention I also own a Tandy Color Computer 3. Which as I'm sure you all know is an 8-bit computer with native rgb 80-column support. But I'm not going to take it out of its proper place in the closet just to see how good the 80-column looks. I do have two Atari's setup in my computer corner now... 1200XL - VBXE - Indus GT (supercharger) - U1mb for SDX, with a Viewsonic 1080p monitor, native 16:9 set for 4:3 aspect. 130XE - Sophia - XF 551 (3.5") - Side2 for SDX, with a 19" DVI Synectics, native 5:4, set for 4:3 aspect I'm finding as far as 80 columns go, it is the totality of the experience. I find myself drawn to using the 130XE due to its stellar display. Despite the fact the resolution is clearly inferior in 80-column mode - but the sophia/synectics combination is producing vibrant colors, rock solid, crystal clear display. The VBXE in combination with a Viewsonic, is producing a muddled, color slightly off, with wide borders all around. And back when the 1200xl was my only machine...I tried a few tv's/monitors, that viewsonic combined with the scart scan doubler - was the very best I could get that card to display, but damn that sophia is good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 Had a COCO III, think it was 128K... played the crap out of thexder... some good fun with trs 80s at school back in the day. Like you I am always back to the Atari, both then and now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzspeed Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said: as a passing mention... and he doesn't go on and on about it like you do incorporating such things in multiple threads. I do like the way some coders work to bring a project across all the platforms and machines (PLATOTERM etc.) The community isn't doing anything to you. As a member within several communities, I can attest that over the years the C= community has been the least forgiving of mentions of other machines and battles aimed from programmer to programmer and indeed their teams can get quite ridiculous, I don't see you threatening them with not using the machine of choice there and I sure don't see you endlessly doing comparisons in and all over many forums and their threads. Not quite understanding your lashing out at everybody. They are in the proper place to talk primarily about Atari stuff and occasional do light comparison on mentions of their other machines. I do the same, and normally it's about how they work together, or can emulate each other, and sometimes how it's done on or by other machines. I really enjoyed PET Frogger that came to the Atari... this required talking about the game and the code as well as the beloved machine from whence it came. Very fond memories and it all served to bring enjoyment to all involved. A nice tribute to the PET (remember Chuck Peddle mos 6502). A multitude of us enjoy many machines. We have done many a comparison and there a few threads about it. We don't go about making numerous comparisons and such talk in numbers of threads or any chance we can just because we can. (I am not wasting my time looking up all posts and quoting them, so it'll be close enough paraphrasing as usual. I know to casual, but that's the way it is) In so many words... You claimed in one form or another if there were an issue that it wouldn't be something like what is currently happening. Instead of dialing it down a notch you keep ramping it up. This doesn't seem at all like a productive way to go about it. How about getting involved in the broader community, as the A8 isn't the best at everything which is absolutely no different to any other 8bit out there, and allowing yourself to be impressed by the emerging developments on alternate platforms instead of taking everything negatively? The FDD performance demonstrated by Faicuai in the 'why more than 128k' thread impressed me, I have no qualm stating that quite honestly and factually. I'll also state honestly that FujiNet could be better after using the 1541 UII+ for an extended period. Sticking one's finger's in one's ears and yelling "la,la" at anyone demonstrating advancements on alternate platforms is outright pointless. As a result of seeing the FDD performance on Faicuai's A8 I've been talking to one of the devs of the 1541 UII+ on ways the Hyperspeed mode could be incorporated better into JiffyDOS making the experience a more seamless one. I wish I could benchmark the IO speed of the implementation the way Faicuai asked, however I know that the C64 is going to be limited by outright CPU speed unless I run an Ultimate 64 at 48Mhz - But that's OK, because there are other areas where the C64 excels. At the end of the day, life's too short to argue such rubbish, and I am definitely in no way interested in doing so... 2 hours ago, Mark2008 said: Well since we have all this 8-bit love going on, I will mention I also own a Tandy Color Computer 3. Which as I'm sure you all know is an 8-bit computer with native rgb 80-column support. But I'm not going to take it out of its proper place in the closet just to see how good the 80-column looks. I do have two Atari's setup in my computer corner now... 1200XL - VBXE - Indus GT (supercharger) - U1mb for SDX, with a Viewsonic 1080p monitor, native 16:9 set for 4:3 aspect. 130XE - Sophia - XF 551 (3.5") - Side2 for SDX, with a 19" DVI Synectics, native 5:4, set for 4:3 aspect I'm finding as far as 80 columns go, it is the totality of the experience. I find myself drawn to using the 130XE due to its stellar display. Despite the fact the resolution is clearly inferior in 80-column mode - but the sophia/synectics combination is producing vibrant colors, rock solid, crystal clear display. The VBXE in combination with a Viewsonic, is producing a muddled, color slightly off, with wide borders all around. And back when the 1200xl was my only machine...I tried a few tv's/monitors, that viewsonic combined with the scart scan doubler - was the very best I could get that card to display, but damn that sophia is good. I think this is awesome and I'm envious! As stated, I'd love a CoCo3. The Tandy line of machines had impressive DOS implementations and the CoCo3 had some unique implementations that offered the potential for it to stand apart from other 8bit machines of the era. I also agree with you that a well implemented 40 column experience actually isn't in any way bad when it's native and well implemented, it's better than the default 32 columns of the CoCo line of 8bit machines. I was so envious when my mate back in the day picked up an old FDD assembly out of a PDP or something from the local metal recyclers and connected it to his CoCo2 with no more than a cheap controller cart - Here's me spending a fortune on a 1541 'smart drive' that was by default slower than that $50.00 unit my mate got from the recyclers! However the serial bus/smart drive implementations of the C64 and A8 lines have allowed for some impressive advancements in storage implementations - Ironically enough. Edited February 6, 2021 by Mazzspeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Mazzspeed said: At the end of the day, life's too short to argue such rubbish, and I am definitely in no way interested in doing so... I found the InterWord screenshots interesting and relevant, personally. I wasn't aware of the software before and have learned something. With the number of blatantly off topic threads which are started on this forum primarily because the OPs know the 8-bit section gets a lot of traffic, and the number of well intentioned threads which are descending into the toilet owing to trolling, gainsaying and inane efforts at bumping, I saw little to complain about in this one. Edited February 6, 2021 by flashjazzcat 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzspeed Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 (edited) 58 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said: I found the InterWord screenshots interesting and relevant, personally. I wasn't aware of the software before and have learned something. With the number of blatantly off topic threads which are started on this forum primarily because the OPs know the 8-bit section gets a lot of traffic, and the number of well intentioned threads which are descending into the toilet owing to trolling, gainsaying and inane efforts at bumping, I saw little to complain about in this one. Thank you FJC. I posted the screenshot as I also found it interesting as I also had never seen it before - It's surprisingly good, to the point I plan on using it for the very reasons you mentioned regarding word processing on 8 bit machines. If it wasn't for this thread, I wouldn't have become interested in software 80 column solutions and I wouldn't have searched for it. Likewise, I plan on doing the same regarding The Last Word. Problem is it's on an emulated A8 so the possibility still exists regarding distractions! Edited February 6, 2021 by Mazzspeed Typo.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FifthPlayer Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 (edited) @Mazzspeed Thanks for that screenshot of Interword - having owned an Amiga back in the day it was interesting to see the Amiga look and feel adapted to an 8-bit application. Personally, I think discussing the C64 in the context of a larger discussion about A8 stuff (as I feel you've been doing) is not unwelcome. If I could explain a little bit about the culture of the A8 world and why you received some hostility in this thread. As A8 enthusiasts, we exist in the shadow of Atari's big mainstream success, the 2600. The A8 platform was pretty obscure even in the day to those who knew about Atari. I'm on a Facebook group about the A8 and there's a continual stream of people who ignore the group rules and post stuff about the 2600. I owned a 2600, loved the games, have a 2600 Flashback now, still enjoy the games, but I don't need to hear about the Atari 2600 in every single Atari group I frequent. The 2600 gets more than it's share of love and attention, sometimes I'd like to have a place where I can talk about the Atari platform I like the best. So yes, some get upset about off-topic C64 posts. But a lot of A8 fans are fatigued over living in the shadow of the 2600 (and to a lesser extent the ST), are already at the limits of their patience from being marginalized within their own community and they don't have the patience one would normally expect with an outsider. That said, there are many more polite ways they could have used to voice their concerns. Edited February 6, 2021 by FifthPlayer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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