tschak909 Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 There is the start of a NOS, here: https://github.com/FujiNetWIFI/fujinet-nhandler/tree/master/nos The idea is to load the N: handler at $0700, there is no D:, but there would be a command processor that activates when DOS is typed for file management functions. READY DOS N1:[] Some example commands. Prefix Set NCD N:TNFS://ATARI-APPS.IRATA.ONLINE/Games/Homesoft/ DIR N: Binary Load N:HTTP://FUJINET-TESTING.IRATA.ONLINE/BURIEDBU Copy COPY N1:HTTP://FUJINET-TESTING.IRATA.ONLINE/BURIEDBU.COM,N2:TNFS://RASPBERRYPI/Games/BURIEDBU.COM and so on... Question is, would anyone honestly care? The big advantage here would be MEMLO, as almost all of the logic to implement file management functions is actually done ON the ESP32. -Thom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 everyone cares about memlo, how could anyone not care? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FifthPlayer Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 It would be useful for apps and games that require the network functionality in Fujinet (example: the weather app), as I could assume a low MEMLO. But if I were writing a game/app that doesn't use internet features, I'd code to lowest common denominator and the extra RAM wouldn't be all that useful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschak909 Posted February 17, 2021 Author Share Posted February 17, 2021 sigh. you're misunderstanding what this is for. Any game or program in a language that can easily do SIO calls can simply use the SIO layer, it's easy enough. The N: handler is for languages like BASIC where doing SIO calls takes some effort (compared to other things), and to give network access to other programs that use CIO. -Thom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FifthPlayer Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 hour ago, tschak909 said: sigh. you're misunderstanding what this is for. Any game or program in a language that can easily do SIO calls can simply use the SIO layer, it's easy enough. The N: handler is for languages like BASIC where doing SIO calls takes some effort (compared to other things), and to give network access to other programs that use CIO. -Thom I'm sorry, but that's not what I got from your explanation. I saw a proposal for a replacement for DOS/DUP centered completely around network operations. Sigh at me if you must, but that behavior only serves to chase people away from possibly helping you. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschak909 Posted February 17, 2021 Author Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, FifthPlayer said: I'm sorry, but that's not what I got from your explanation. I saw a proposal for a replacement for DOS/DUP centered completely around network operations. Sigh at me if you must, but that behavior only serves to chase people away from possibly helping you. It is a replacement for DOS/DUP, there is no D:, only N:, that's sort of the point, to show what one would look like. As it happens, the N: handler mostly benefits either BASIC and languages where trying to directly access SIO is a pain in the butt, as well as applications that can directly deal with devicespecs, for example, I've used N: from AtariWriter, and Music Composer, programs that, were never designed for network use. e.g. I did network I/O from __LOGO__ a few days ago... -Thom Edited February 17, 2021 by tschak909 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 maybe he is worried that you can't do DOS as one call and NOS as another... both utilizing mem.sav would be pretty nifty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschak909 Posted February 17, 2021 Author Share Posted February 17, 2021 all DOS is for most implementations is literally an oversized CIO device. -Thom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathrynm Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 So something like this would work then? Maybe in the future, we don't need D1: anymore? SET PATH=N:/SD/;N2: NCD N2:TNFS://RASPBERRYPI/Games/ BURIEDBU On my Incognito, I'm kind of getting settled in with SpartaDos, which has pretty good memlo. Except right now I'm at my father's house, where I only have a 48K 400, so maybe, though this keyboard is such a pain I'm not doing a lot of Atari command line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschak909 Posted February 17, 2021 Author Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) yup basically. 14 minutes ago, cathrynm said: So something like this would work then? Maybe in the future, we don't need D1: anymore? SET PATH=N:/SD/;N2: NCD N2:TNFS://RASPBERRYPI/Games/ BURIEDBU On my Incognito, I'm kind of getting settled in with SpartaDos, which has pretty good memlo. Except right now I'm at my father's house, where I only have a 48K 400, so maybe, though this keyboard is such a pain I'm not doing a lot of Atari command line. Yup, basically, that's the idea. -Thom Q: How can you tell an Atari 400 user? A: Their lack of fingerprints. Edited February 17, 2021 by tschak909 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxl Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 (edited) it is a great idea to transfer the filesystem support to the device, in many other solutions on other computers it works great. I used a similar scheme on my WiFiPrime and in my opinion it works great. I used the "D" identifier - because I believe that by default every program (including old ones) should have access to any user-defined data source. A very good step. FujiNet is the best hardware solution in recent years. Edited February 18, 2021 by xxl 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschak909 Posted February 18, 2021 Author Share Posted February 18, 2021 5 hours ago, xxl said: it is a great idea to transfer the filesystem support to the device, in many other solutions on other computers it works great. I used a similar scheme on my WiFiPrime and in my opinion it works great. I used the "D" identifier - because I believe that by default every program (including old ones) should have access to any user-defined data source. A very good step. FujiNet is the best hardware solution in recent years. Thank you. It's ironic really that the user facing problems with N: don't come from N: itself, but rather from programs placing deliberate constraints on what they think is valid input. -Thom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxl Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 strongly emphasizes that the protocol is also defined when the connection is opened - that's just brilliant. Unfortunately, you may feel a lot of resistance from users who think the overloaded D driver must be DOS. fileststem is currently losing its importance ? I really keep my fingers crossed. the network opens up new possibilities for this computer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+x=usr(1536) Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Since the question was, "N: NOS, anyone care?", I'd like to register a 'care' vote. Apart from the benefits mentioned above, I like having software in a central location. This helps to keep things on an even footing between machines, makes physical portability much easier, and cuts down on busywork keeping multiple machines in sync. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcamp48 Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 I care too, I would like to see MULE being run off an N: handler and handling 4 different players. Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 Bump. Any news? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcamp48 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 12 hours ago, Kyle22 said: Bump. Any news? Is this about MULE being run off Fujinet? I may work on it while I am in isolation for 5 days, I have no access to my master computer, I just bought this Icore 7 laptop for $150 Canadian from a friend, it has an SSD in it not too big I think 128 GB and a 17 inch screen so I will be around quite a bit. Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschak909 Posted February 21, 2022 Author Share Posted February 21, 2022 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 7 minutes ago, rcamp48 said: Is this about MULE being run off Fujinet? I may work on it while I am in isolation for 5 days, I have no access to my master computer, I just bought this Icore 7 laptop for $150 Canadian from a friend, it has an SSD in it not too big I think 128 GB and a 17 inch screen so I will be around quite a bit. Russ Sweet - even more projects to start, not get working, and not finish. I'd keep maintaining the list I started, but why bother. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcamp48 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 9 minutes ago, Stephen said: Sweet - even more projects to start, not get working, and not finish. I'd keep maintaining the list I started, but why bother. I got FXEP 54 to work, and I am not doing the programming on it any more , I have handed it over to someone that is going to bring it into the 21st century, and you are right about starting projects and not finishing them, I am guilty of that way too much, so while I am I n isolation I will go over a few that I have not finished and get them done. A wedding video unfortunately takes priority. Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tillek Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 6 hours ago, rcamp48 said: I got FXEP 54 to work, and I am not doing the programming on it any more , I have handed it over to someone that is going to bring it into the 21st century, and you are right about starting projects and not finishing them, I am guilty of that way too much, so while I am I n isolation I will go over a few that I have not finished and get them done. A wedding video unfortunately takes priority. Russ I thought it was AMIS who got it working? Just out of curiosity, who did you hand it over to? There might be some people who want to collaborate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcamp48 Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 His name is Vincenzo, he is a seasoned and well known programmer , he will be doing FXEP in Action or Pascal, bringing into the 21st century , and yes Amis got it working but I also got it working from a Stock copy of the original, all I had to do was change one line, anyways Vincenzo has asked me to freeze the code at the state it is in now, maybe Amis should get in touch with him. I will be doing other things mainly new 2022 teams for Hardball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 On 2/17/2021 at 2:29 PM, tschak909 said: It is a replacement for DOS/DUP, there is no D:, only N:, that's sort of the point, to show what one would look like. As it happens, the N: handler mostly benefits either BASIC and languages where trying to directly access SIO is a pain in the butt, as well as applications that can directly deal with devicespecs, for example, I've used N: from AtariWriter, and Music Composer, programs that, were never designed for network use. e.g. I did network I/O from __LOGO__ a few days ago... -Thom I’m not sure such a thing would be that useful. Only new applications would be able to use N: or those that allow free form entry of file names, as 8.3 isn’t going to cut it for TCP destinations. I think you would need to also install a pseudo D handler that could translate local filenames, perhaps prepending a TCP destination to the filename. Something like D1:PRO>HELP.TXT becomes \irata.online\pro\help.txt What’s NCD, network change directory? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschak909 Posted March 15, 2022 Author Share Posted March 15, 2022 9 hours ago, Alfred said: I’m not sure such a thing would be that useful. Only new applications would be able to use N: or those that allow free form entry of file names, as 8.3 isn’t going to cut it for TCP destinations. I think you would need to also install a pseudo D handler that could translate local filenames, perhaps prepending a TCP destination to the filename. Something like D1:PRO>HELP.TXT becomes \irata.online\pro\help.txt What’s NCD, network change directory? I see it as an interesting test-bed, especially because the protocol adapter design allows for even things like filesystem adapters to be attached to move what would otherwise be in the FMS onto the ESP32, gaining more user visible memory. NCD = yeah, basically, it allows a prefix to be prepended to an N: devicespec. It was done so that long URLs didn't have to be continually typed, and to allow programs that otherwise couldn't use N: The protocol adapter firmware in N: has some interesting code which allows protocol adapters that descend from NetworkProtocolFS to have some form of 8.3 to long filename resolution. It computes a long filename by normalizing to legal characters, and replacing the last two characters of the 8 character name with an 8-bit hex checksum value. https://github.com/FujiNetWIFI/fujinet-platformio/blob/master/lib/network-protocol/FS.cpp#L315 https://github.com/FujiNetWIFI/fujinet-platformio/blob/master/lib/utils/utils.cpp#L136 I genuinely tried to make N: as useful as I could. -Thom 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 @tschak909 Ignore the shills. I appreciate everything you do. Sorry if I have been short w/ you before. I encourage, admire and respect N: development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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