FujiNet + AtariWriter = No Bueno

[+DrVenkman]

So I wasn't really sure where to put this so I figured I'd just start a new thread. This spun out of a post I saw on the Facewebs by Thom talking with someone about printer emulation, of all things. So as an aside to that post and the replies, I plugged in my handy AtariWriter cart, tried to boot my 1200XL from FujiNet but that ... didn't work. The AtariWriter cart rom seems to take control of the boot process even before SIO polling and sends you right to a very corrupted SSID selection screen. If you press "S" to skip (since my network info is correct and has been since forever ago), I get a garbled and incomplete Hosts/Slot selection screen. From here I appear to basically be stuck, unable to select hosts or mount disks in slots or even mount and boot whatever may have been selected prior to this session.

 

This occurred last night with the prior firmware and just to make sure it hasn't been affected, I updated this FujiNet with the release Mozzwald pushed yesterday and tried again with the same result. Of course, if I disable CONFIG with the web interface and then boot, AtariWriter can use a different boot device (I tried it with an ATR mounted on my SIDE3, which was also emulating the AtariWriter cart), and it will also work when booting from a physical drive (using a real AtariWriter cart for the sake of being thorough). From there, FujiNet will still let you emulate whatever printer you want, which is still useful, but not as useful as being able to use it to boot DOS while using this particular cart. 

 

 

[tschak909]

It does indeed conflict with CONFIG. Not sure what I can do here. This is why I mount, and then insert the cartridge. But I will investigate to see what I can do to make this suck less.

 

This includes doing a micro-config...

 

-Thom

Edited February 21, 2021 by tschak909

[+DrVenkman]

11 minutes ago, tschak909 said:

It does indeed conflict with CONFIG. Not sure what I can do here. This is why I mount, and then insert the cartridge. But I will investigate to see what I can do to make this suck less.

 

This includes doing a micro-config...

 

-Thom

Yeah, I understand. Obviously this is an edge case for the regulars on AtariAge and those who have been around the retro-scene for a while - I mean, we have better and more capable word processors around these days that can be loaded from a mounted ATR but there are a LOT of AtariWriter carts around; it's pretty ubiquitous, especially for people who are just finding their boxes of old stuff or have bought a bunch of Atari stuff to recapture the magic but need a modern storage device and might look into getting a FujiNet. 

 

AtariWriter actually shows its splash screen during the SIO poll and boot process - so it may be that NOTHING can be done with CONFIG itself. As I alluded to in the "CONFIG then exit" thread, it seems that this cart just wants to ask the boot devices for data but then won't let go if that boot device wants to actually boot an executable rather than loading something like Atari's DOS.SY handler and returning immediately to the cart. Here's where a "set up the slots from the web interface" would come in handy - then CONFIG wouldn't need to load at all, really, except for a tiny stub to load the slots super-fast (or at least D1:, before the Atari can really object to the delay) then get out of the way. 

 

Most of us "power users" have work-arounds to this limitation. Personally, for my daily-driver 1200XL or my Incognito 800, I can just turn off CONFIG in the web interface but still power on the FujiNet for printer emulation. Then I can boot my DOS flavor of choice from an ATR mounted via the SIDE Loader or Incognito Loader, drop into AtariWriter via a vintage cartridge or from my SIDE3 cart, save and load files with the other boot device but still use FujiNet to print.

 

Obviously I'm not a coder and I'm well-aware that I'm hand-waving here at a very high level. There's no pressure for anyone to "fix" this unless they can do so in a straightforward way without turning this into a major undertaking, but I wanted to document the incompatibility for anyone else who may stumble their way into the same thing in a few weeks or a few years down the line. After all, AtariAge is forever (almost). 

[tschak909]

Yes, if I basically just make a MICRO-CONFIG that just spits out a message, and counts down from 3-1 then mounts and cold boots, it should be okay. (Pressing C would boot into normal config)

 

I just have to find a way to make this work, as it makes the boot process more complex.  but it is doable.

 

-Thom

[_The Doctor__]

no message even..

[+DrVenkman]

1 minute ago, _The Doctor__ said:

no message even..

Agreed - for AtariWriter, the screen is already up and essentially frozen before SIO polling even starts. No need for a message - just put a toggle in the web interface. CONFIG Boot - "Yes" for the usual CONFIG full interface; "No" to sit there and ignore the SIO poll but still be available for - for example - printer emulation; and then something like maybe "Silent" to mount and boot whatever slots have previously been configured. That data is already stored on the SD card and doesn't even need to be changed via the web interface.

 

The use case could be: 

 

1. Boot the Atari with no cart inserted to get to the usual CONFIG as it normally runs at boot time.

2. Setup your slots however you want (D1: DOS of choice, D2: working disk, etc). 

3. Power off Atari and insert cart

4. Set FujiNet web interface to CONFIG SILENT mode or whatever it ends up being called

5. Power up the Atari - mini-CONFIG quickly loads the slot faster than the SIO timeout; Atari then boots whatever DOS is in the D1: slot

6. PROFIT. Or something.

 

I'm sure there are other ways it could be done, but a simple "Silent" option seems like it would a pretty easy thing to control via the existing web pane. 

 

[_The Doctor__]

I like silent, if I want a config I can call it via fujinet button, tools, etc. etc etc as I outlined a number of times.. sure put something in the webberface... but webberface shouldn't be required to get any of it done..

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by _The Doctor__

[DjayBee]

48 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

it seems that this cart just wants to ask the boot devices for data but then won't let go if that boot device wants to actually boot an executable rather than loading something like Atari's DOS.SY handler and returning immediately to the cart.

This is not entirely true.

 

Boot the attached Proofreader disk with an inserted AtariWriter cartdrige - and watch the screen output.

Atari Proofreader (1985)(Atari)(US)(Disk 1 of 2)(Program Diskette)[cr CSS].atr

Btw.: If you boot the disk without AtariWriter it will plain out crash.

 

In case you actually want to proofread:

Atari Proofreader (1985)(Atari)(US)(Disk 2 of 2)(Dictionary Diskette).atr

 

[+DrVenkman]

So ... this is weird. I just tried something which is definitely against every "best practices" advice I'd give someone with regard to electronics, but I swapped my 1200XL+U1MB for my Incognito 800 that I haven't been using for a couple months. I booted to CONFIG and verified my slot assignments without a cart inserted, the booted to Atari DOS 2.5. I then hot-inserted my AtariWriter cart without powering off the Atari. The screen turned to garbage as probably should be expected. So I pressed Fuji+System Reset to go to the Incognito BIOS, then hit B to boot from there. I got a flash of the AtariWriter screen, then some noise like something was trying to load, a second or so of random garbage screen mess, then the AtariWriter menu. I can now access the disk index, swap disks, load files and print.

 

This is DEFINITELY different than what I saw trying to boot from FujiNet with the 1200XL+U1MB. And again, just for the sake of completeness, a cold-boot power-cycle of the Incognito 800 with the FujiNet attached gives the same exact mess as with the 1200XL.

[_The Doctor__]

yeah you hot swapped over-top of stuff, and it's sets up slightly different. Hot swapping is permissible on the Atari but generally you should take steps to handle it more safely (think in terms of AtariMax flasher program on the Atari) it sets up for a safe hot plug....

Edited February 21, 2021 by _The Doctor__

[StefanD]

Every cart can get control before the OS opens the editor sreen via the cart's init address located at $bffe. AtariWriter opens the editor here, then closes it (to create the display list), then inserts its own E handler in HATABS. It also uses some RAM (at least page 6) and modifies the display list.

 

So if CONFIG uses the editor handler E, it uses AtariWriter's E handler which surely works different - so garbage may be displayed.

 

[tschak909]

26 minutes ago, StefanD said:

Every cart can get control before the OS opens the editor sreen via the cart's init address located at $bffe. AtariWriter opens the editor here, then closes it (to create the display list), then inserts its own E handler in HATABS. It also uses some RAM (at least page 6) and modifies the display list.

 

So if CONFIG uses the editor handler E, it uses AtariWriter's E handler which surely works different - so garbage may be displayed.

 

No, Config literally does its own thing, does not use E: at all. 

 

As I've mentioned before, I typically boot into config, boot into DOS, run ntrans, ncd, whatever, then insert AtariWriter and boot into it.

-Thom

 

[cathrynm]

Should it ever run config if a cart is present? Wouldn't the natural flow with a cart be, that you'd load a DOS or maybe your 'micro-config' with no UI, and then you'd launch proper config when you type 'DOS' from Basic, like it does for dup.sys? config is closer to a dup.sys than it is to dos. If the cart doesn't have a way to load dup.sys, then it just has to deal with what your micro-config offers as far as drives.

Edited March 9, 2021 by cathrynm

[Kyle22]

Maybe a FUJICONF.EXE [Renamed as AUTORUN.SYS] that reads FUJICONF.INI and sets it up?

INI file on same disk as FUJICONF.

 

Would something like that work in this case?

[tschak909]

I just checked in the code for mount-and-boot.

 

It adds a new option on the web admin, Boot Mode.

 

 

Default, it is set to CONFIG.

 

If you set it to Mount and Boot, it will boot into a tiny program which mounts the configured device slots, waits a few moments to see if you want to press SELECT, and if you don't, it boots.

 

If you do press select, it boots into CONFIG.

 

If the mounts fail, it will boot into CONFIG.

 

This has been checked into master and will be part of an upcoming build.

 

 

 

 

And of course, the code is here:

https://github.com/FujiNetWIFI/fujinet-mount-and-boot

 

To support this, code to set the boot mode has been added, and a new SIO command ($D6) can set the boot mode from daux1:

https://github.com/FujiNetWIFI/fujinet-platformio/wiki/SIO-Command-$D7-Set-Boot-Mode

 

-Thom

Edited March 10, 2021 by tschak909

[+DrVenkman]

Thom -  
 

I tried the newest public firmware build tonight and it worked great. I was able to mount/boot my DOS disk in the D1: slot, my working disk in D2:, and then boot into AtariWriter, swap disks and load a file. I edited the file, saved it back to my working disk as a new file, then printed it to the virtual printer on FujiNet. It all Just Worked™

 

Thanks, team!

[tschak909]

hahahahaha. I'm glad.

 

I'm going to float back to working on NCOPY and trying to get it to do wildcards. That will greatly improve its usability. (I seriously wish that the various DUP packages didn't hack things like wildcards in, it really was possible to do it all in a clean consistent manner, but.. oh well)

 

-Thom

 

[billyc]

Hi all, I am resurrecting this old thread because I have a new FujiNet ✨ and some old floppy disks with AtariWriter files on them.

BUT... I seem to have lost the AtariWriter cartridge at some point in the past 35 years, lol. So here's what's going on:

 

I want to load the old AtariWriter documents using the original AtariWriter program, because they don't look quite right in AtariWriter Plus, and I'm not sure if the problem is disk decay or program incompatibility (or some other gremlin).

 

I can load AtariWriter from an ATR or XEX image via FujiNet, but then I can't boot DOS from the attached 1050, which I've set to drive 2. Because of AtariWriter's weird disk handling, I can't seem to get the disk drive to function at all with AtariWriter (in XEX form).

 

So, is there any way to load AtariWriter -without the cartridge- and also use my 1050 drive? I fully understand this is a far-out edge case, and I supposed I can always convert the disks to ATR and load them in an emulator... but I really wanted to do this on the original equipment.

 

Thanks folks!

 

 

 

[+x=usr(1536)]

Not to derail the thread, but has anyone recently tried running AtariWriter as a cartridge image from a SIDE3 with a FujiNet attached?  I'm getting a reproducible lockup across multiple versions of AtariWriter:

1. Boot with SIDE3 inserted and FujiNet powered on.
2. Load your AtariWriter cartridge image of choice via the SIDE3 loader.
3. The white-on-blue AtariWriter fuji logo splash screen appears.
   1. SIO beeps are audible during this time.
4. Partway through that loading process, the splash screen turns grey as the FujiNet takes over.
   1. SIO beeps are audible during this time.
5. The AtariWriter splash screen is replaced by the FujiNet boot progress screen.
   1. SIO beeps are now not audible.
6. Once the FujiNet has completed its boot, the screen reverts to AtariWriter blue but is completely blank otherwise.
   1. A few SIO beeps are audible after this happens.
   2. No text appears, keypresses do not generate beeps, etc.

Firmware is 0.5.fd038d41, test machine is an 800XL (256K RAM, UAV).  Would have to open it up to 100% confirm, but I believe that this is my only XL without a 74F08 installed.  If I can find them, I'll try popping one in there and see what happens - there were a few laying around here, but I've no idea where they've gone.  FWIW, powering the FujiNet independently of the 800XL doesn't seem to make a difference.

 

Don't want to poison the well by saying that this worked in the past.  My memory wants to say that it did, but I'm not 100% certain that this was ever the case.

 

For reference, the AtariWriter images I've tested with have the following sha256 sums:

 

8e6463a21339161e546d2384584011955f6b99c0bb8fbd519579b29896abb167  AtariTexte (1984)(Atari)(FR).bin
3bd2e3f034a21e683e17c080839ad5c69e27fa8a268db9904584d84750cc96d6  AtariTexte (1984)(Atari)(FR).car
fe3f3d17b654710a1f7537f902d23edc7dd617fda796da5b12c75515a179aa8f  AtariWriter (Version C, Silver Label).car
27254ffae385eac75e8f34da1de550f9bc002689bc85eef9ebbf4e86b40bcc22  AtariWriter.bin
121be53ce5350b485349142b9ad7a77e278a082af173a21c3fb7f90458eff8e2  Atarischreiber.car

[tschak909]

1 minute ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Not to derail the thread, but has anyone recently tried running AtariWriter as a cartridge image from a SIDE3 with a FujiNet attached?  I'm getting a reproducible lockup across multiple versions of AtariWriter:

1. Boot with SIDE3 inserted and FujiNet powered on.
2. Load your AtariWriter cartridge image of choice via the SIDE3 loader.
3. The white-on-blue AtariWriter fuji logo splash screen appears.
   1. SIO beeps are audible during this time.
4. Partway through that loading process, the splash screen turns grey as the FujiNet takes over.
   1. SIO beeps are audible during this time.
5. The AtariWriter splash screen is replaced by the FujiNet boot progress screen.
   1. SIO beeps are now not audible.
6. Once the FujiNet has completed its boot, the screen reverts to AtariWriter blue but is completely blank otherwise.
   1. A few SIO beeps are audible after this happens.
   2. No text appears, keypresses do not generate beeps, etc.

Firmware is 0.5.fd038d41, test machine is an 800XL (256K RAM, UAV).  Would have to open it up to 100% confirm, but I believe that this is my only XL without a 74F08 installed.  If I can find them, I'll try popping one in there and see what happens - there were a few laying around here, but I've no idea where they've gone.  FWIW, powering the FujiNet independently of the 800XL doesn't seem to make a difference.

 

Don't want to poison the well by saying that this worked in the past.  My memory wants to say that it did, but I'm not 100% certain that this was ever the case.

 

For reference, the AtariWriter images I've tested with have the following sha256 sums:

 

8e6463a21339161e546d2384584011955f6b99c0bb8fbd519579b29896abb167  AtariTexte (1984)(Atari)(FR).bin
3bd2e3f034a21e683e17c080839ad5c69e27fa8a268db9904584d84750cc96d6  AtariTexte (1984)(Atari)(FR).car
fe3f3d17b654710a1f7537f902d23edc7dd617fda796da5b12c75515a179aa8f  AtariWriter (Version C, Silver Label).car
27254ffae385eac75e8f34da1de550f9bc002689bc85eef9ebbf4e86b40bcc22  AtariWriter.bin
121be53ce5350b485349142b9ad7a77e278a082af173a21c3fb7f90458eff8e2  Atarischreiber.car

Because of how AtariWriter works (and how it intercepts the boot process), you have to configure your mounts BEFORE inserting AtariWriter.

 

-Thom

[+x=usr(1536)]

2 minutes ago, tschak909 said:

Because of how AtariWriter works (and how it intercepts the boot process), you have to configure your mounts BEFORE inserting AtariWriter.

Ah, ok, understood.  Wasn't aware that that was still the case.  Thanks

[billyc]

16 hours ago, billyc said:

Hi all, I am resurrecting this old thread because I have a new FujiNet ✨ and some old floppy disks with AtariWriter files on them.

BUT... I seem to have lost the AtariWriter cartridge at some point in the past 35 years, lol. So here's what's going on:

 

I want to load the old AtariWriter documents using the original AtariWriter program, because they don't look quite right in AtariWriter Plus, and I'm not sure if the problem is disk decay or program incompatibility (or some other gremlin).

 

I can load AtariWriter from an ATR or XEX image via FujiNet, but then I can't boot DOS from the attached 1050, which I've set to drive 2. Because of AtariWriter's weird disk handling, I can't seem to get the disk drive to function at all with AtariWriter (in XEX form).

 

So, is there any way to load AtariWriter -without the cartridge- and also use my 1050 drive? I fully understand this is a far-out edge case, and I supposed I can always convert the disks to ATR and load them in an emulator... but I really wanted to do this on the original equipment.

 

Thanks folks!

 

 

 

 

So, back to my question (!) -- I'm guessing this is just not possible, and I'll find a non-FujiNet way to solve this problem...

 

[mozzwald]

6 hours ago, billyc said:

 

So, back to my question (!) -- I'm guessing this is just not possible, and I'll find a non-FujiNet way to solve this problem...

 

I'm not up to speed on using Atariwriter. Does it require your data disk as drive 1 only? You could make a backup of your real disks to ATR files on the FujiNet SD card. Then in FujiNet config, put Atariwriter XEX in slot 1 and your new disk image in slot 2. Boot. When you need your data disk in drive 1, press button A on fujinet to swap disks.

 

You might also be able to keep the 1050 as drive 1, but turn it off. Mount the Atariwriter XEX and boot. When it's finished loading Atariwriter, turn off FujiNet and turn the disk drive on.

 

I could be way off here, but it's something to try

 

[+Stephen]

Sorry to be that guy - but is there a specific reason to use Atari Writer (do you have a lot of old files in that format)?  Last Word is vastly superiour in every way.  But - good luck with getting Atari Writer working - I know @mytek has a modified version to work with the XEP-80II he designed mainly for the 576NUC.  Perhaps he can offer some advice relating to this issue.

[+mytek]

3 hours ago, Stephen said:

I know @mytek has a modified version to work with the XEP-80II he designed mainly for the 576NUC.  Perhaps he can offer some advice relating to this issue.

I wish I could, but AW80 is an entirely different beast as compared to either the original or plus versions of AW.

 

My mods were modest at best, correcting some minor issues with accessing the disk drives for some of the extra features (mail merge, spell check, ect.) due to an incorrect default drive address, and adding support for automatically engaging the XEP80-II's 80 column mode switch when the program launches.