+Karl G Posted January 2, 2023 Author Share Posted January 2, 2023 I'm contemplating another half-baked idea. I'm wondering if anyone has wanted a chess action type of game for the 7800, along the lines of Archon? A strategy game played on something similar to a chessboard, but the pieces fight for possession of the square in real time. I had Varloc as a kid for my TRS-80 CoCo, and enjoyed it quite a bit. I'd actually love to do a proper port of Archon for the 7800, but since the copyright holder still have an active interest in their IP, I would only do so with permission. Failing that, maybe a sci-fi themed game along the same lines might be fun, with space combat to determine possession of the squares. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Muddyfunster Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 My immediate thought was "Lords of Chaos" or something of that ilk, I think Lords of Chaos is very similar to Archon. Maybe Rebelstar or Laser Squad, but those aren't really "chess" types. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Karl G Posted January 2, 2023 Author Share Posted January 2, 2023 11 minutes ago, Muddyfunster said: My immediate thought was "Lords of Chaos" or something of that ilk, I think Lords of Chaos is very similar to Archon. Maybe Rebelstar or Laser Squad, but those aren't really "chess" types. I'm not able to find the first game you are talking about. There apparently was a "Lords of Chaos" for some 8-bit systems, but it looks like it was a CRPG? If you can find a link I'd be curious to see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Muddyfunster Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 19 minutes ago, Karl G said: I'm not able to find the first game you are talking about. There apparently was a "Lords of Chaos" for some 8-bit systems, but it looks like it was a CRPG? If you can find a link I'd be curious to see it. Sorry, the old memory isn't what it was. Lords of Chaos was the sequel, "Chaos" was what I was referring to. https://www.mobygames.com/game/chaos Came out on the ZX Spectrum and apparently there was a more recent port to the Ipad. Lords of Chaos was a similar idea, two sides, tactical combat, but on a much bigger map. Chaos was more of the "chessboard" style game. edit- Chaos was written by Julian Gollop who later went on to write the X-Com games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Karl G Posted January 2, 2023 Author Share Posted January 2, 2023 5 minutes ago, Muddyfunster said: Lords of Chaos was the sequel, "Chaos" was what I was referring to. https://www.mobygames.com/game/chaos Ahh cool! It seems similar in concept to a video game version of Magic the Gathering. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 Just throwing this out there... you can make a pretty nice isometric Archon board out of a reasonable number of 160A characters... 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Karl G Posted January 3, 2023 Author Share Posted January 3, 2023 1 hour ago, RevEng said: Just throwing this out there... you can make a pretty nice isometric Archon board out of a reasonable number of 160A characters... That's pretty cool! I'm guessing that a 7800 version of Archon has popped into your head at some point, too. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 Despite spending my fair share of time playing the A8 version back in the day, not really. It was your raising it here that just got me thinking about the board, and how the 7800 might be able to amp things up a bit. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Defender_2600 Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 4 hours ago, RevEng said: Just throwing this out there... you can make a pretty nice isometric Archon board out of a reasonable number of 160A characters... Nice! Maybe we can imagine that the Archon board is placed on top of a tower... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 It can go taller too. The graphic source image, pre-scale, is 144x144. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Karl G Posted January 6, 2023 Author Share Posted January 6, 2023 So, I've been playing around with the "space chess" concept, and making a board and some pieces. My zoneheight=8, and the board is made up of 2 80-pixel sprites per zone. I was unable to display 8 16-width pieces in a row without the last one getting chopped-off, so i reduced the width to 12. This works, but it seems that I need to have extradlmemory set to on for it to display correctly. I was thinking that with a zoneheight of 8, I should be able to display 16 objects per zone without adding extradlmemory, and I'm only counting 10 (the two for the board, and 8 for the pieces. Does anyone have any idea why this would be needed in this case? (please excuse the bad concept pixel art ) spacechess.zip 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted January 6, 2023 Share Posted January 6, 2023 The compile always tells you how many objects per DL you get... Quote [...] $1880 to $1fff used as zone memory, allowing 14 display objects per zone. [...] The thing you need to keep in mind is when you plot a sprite to a Y coordinate that isn't a multiple of the zoneheight, it creates two sprites; one to draw the top portion of the sprite in the upper zone, and another to draw the bottom portion of the sprite in the lower zone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Karl G Posted January 6, 2023 Author Share Posted January 6, 2023 15 minutes ago, RevEng said: The compile always tells you how many objects per DL you get... The thing you need to keep in mind is when you plot a sprite to a Y coordinate that isn't a multiple of the zoneheight, it creates two sprites; one to draw the top portion of the sprite in the upper zone, and another to draw the bottom portion of the sprite in the lower zone. Thanks. I believe that get that, but my sprites are 3 zones tall (24 pixels), and I didn't think they bled into the next zone after that. If I plot my "fighter" sprites exactly at the beginning of the first zone boundary, then it runs without corruption without extradlmemory. A couple of things still don't make sense to me, though: 1) I used the optional tallheight parameter when plotting my sprites to specify 3 zones. I thought this would mean that the sprites wouldn't "bleed" into a 4th zone regardless of vertical position? 2) Even if my sprites are "bleeding" into the next zone, I still can't see where I would get more than 14 objects in any single zone. On the upper row of "fighter" ships, if it bleeds down one more zone, then the zone below them is also just background sprites (two objects) for a total of 10. For the bottom row of fighter ships, it would bleed into the first zone with the wedge ships, which would add two more objects for a total of 12 in that zone. Am I being dumb and missing something here, or is there a factor other than the number of objects per zone that is causing corruption without the extra memory? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted January 6, 2023 Share Posted January 6, 2023 Maybe a picture will help. Here's the top and mid section of your ship graphic. I've fractured the sprites vertically so you can better see how things are split up... When your sprite (tallsprite or otherwise) isn't zone aligned, two sprites are required for maria to draw it spanning the 2 zones. In the above picture, the top of your tall sprite gets split across zone 1 and zone 2. The mid section of your tall sprite gets split across zone 2 and zone 3. The bottom section of your tall sprite (not pictured) gets split across zone 3 and 4. If you plot your tallsprite 8 times across the width of the screen, it means that zone 1=8 sprites, zone 2=16 sprites, zone 3=16 sprites, and zone 4=8 sprites. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Karl G Posted January 6, 2023 Author Share Posted January 6, 2023 Okay, that does help tremendously. I really appreciate the explanation and the visual. I guess it wouldn't make sense to think that the tallsprite gets chopped at different boundaries at runtime like I was picturing in my head. Anyway, now that I understand it it looks like , there should be plenty of time/RAM for what I want to do given that only one piece will move at a time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+saxmeister Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 I loved Archon and have often thought about a port of it. The NES version was actually really good with much more detail than the 8-bit computer versions. But, any type of battle/strategy combination game like that would be a great addition! I've been working in RMT (Raster Music Tracker) and getting to grips with it and making decent sounding tracks for the POKEY. If you are interested, I'd love to contribute. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapitanClassic Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 3 hours ago, saxmeister said: I loved Archon and have often thought about a port of it. The NES version was actually really good with much more detail than the 8-bit computer versions. But, any type of battle/strategy combination game like that would be a great addition! I've been working in RMT (Raster Music Tracker) and getting to grips with it and making decent sounding tracks for the POKEY. If you are interested, I'd love to contribute. Which did you play first, the NES or the atari800/C64 version? I don’t think I have ever heard anyone say that the NES version was superior to any version of the game. Archon Ultra has superior graphic detail to the original Archon, but I still think that the original plays better. The problem with the NES version of Archon is that the size of characters makes it difficult to dodge enemy shots. Additionally, the obstacles blocking/slowing behavior is different than the other PC versions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+saxmeister Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 (edited) Oddly enough it was the Apple II version. As far as graphics are concerned the NES version looks much more detailed than the Apple II version. As far as gameplay, I hated the Apple II joysticks, but loved the game controls and interactions. That part is definitely better than the NES version. The Whack-a-mole movement of the obstacles on the NES was very annoying. I never played Archon Ultra. NES Apple II Edited January 8, 2023 by saxmeister 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Karl G Posted January 8, 2023 Author Share Posted January 8, 2023 15 hours ago, saxmeister said: I loved Archon and have often thought about a port of it. The NES version was actually really good with much more detail than the 8-bit computer versions. But, any type of battle/strategy combination game like that would be a great addition! I've been working in RMT (Raster Music Tracker) and getting to grips with it and making decent sounding tracks for the POKEY. If you are interested, I'd love to contribute. I actually did ask for permission to do a 7800 Archon port, but, unsurprisingly, I didn't get a response. I'm not exactly a well-known developer. For now, I'll be playing around with my sci-fi variant which will be almost (but not completely) unlike Archon. I appreciate the offer to contribute. Let's see if I get far enough along with my idea before I waste anyone's time contributing to the project, though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Karl G Posted January 8, 2023 Author Share Posted January 8, 2023 As far as Archon itself goes, I hadn't even heard of it until maybe a couple of years ago. I didn't know that Varloc on the CoCo was inspired by it. I finally got to play it for the first time last month on a real Atari 800, and it was a blast. I'd love to bring some kind of similar experience to the 7800 if I end up having the chops for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Karl G Posted January 27, 2023 Author Share Posted January 27, 2023 TL;DR here's an interface/board demo, and I'd love art contributions. I've played with the "Space Chess" idea a bit, and I have a board and pieces that move as they should. I haven't started on ship-to-ship combat yet. I'm not thrilled with my own art for this so far, and I'm wondering if there's anyone who might be interested in contributing better ship sprites or a game board? Right now I'm using only 160A mode, but I would be willing to consider 320 modes if anyone was interested in contributing higher-resolution sprites. The demo below shows the 2-player interface without the ship-to-ship combat. Each player takes a turn, and for the most part pieces move like you expect them to based on their position on the board. The exceptions are that the fighters can move one space in any direction, and the starport can't move at all (except once per game via teleport - not implemented yet! JS7800 Link (Arrows and Z for player 1; IKJL-N for player 2) SpaceChessDemo.a78 SpaceChessDemo.bin 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Karl G Posted February 8, 2023 Author Share Posted February 8, 2023 I'm blocked creatively on the Space Chess game at the moment, and may put it aside for now while I think it through some more. The idea was ship-to-ship combat when trying to take a square, with "white" squares having a gravity well in the center to contend with, and "black" squares having random debris to avoid. I'm not sure if gameplay would feel varied enough, though, and fights versus dissimilar ships may just end up feeling like Bambi Meets Godzilla. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 On 2/8/2023 at 9:38 AM, Karl G said: I'm blocked creatively on the Space Chess game at the moment, and may put it aside for now while I think it through some more. [...] I have some thoughts to throw out here, but if you're wanting to concept it yourself, I'm happy to to just wait for what you come up with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Karl G Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 55 minutes ago, RevEng said: I have some thoughts to throw out here, but if you're wanting to concept it yourself, I'm happy to to just wait for what you come up with. Sure! I'm happy to hear any ideas/suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 I think your hunch that the gameplay would be a bit samey is right. Part of that is the regular grid of terrain. Borrowing a few ideas from another EA title, M.U.L.E ... have different squares of the map have different benefits. One might give your fleet better firepower, another might allow you to rebuild lost ships over time, etc., provided you have a ship parked on that territory. after a certain number of turns, events happen, possibly with an accompanying subspace message displayed. e.g. "asteroid strike destroys the space station", "alien probe with unknown abilities is passing by. intercept it if you can." If either of the players engages their FTL starport drive, you enter a M.U.L.E land auction type round, where a cursor moves over the screen. Either player can move their ship, but you both can't choose the same square. (first gets to go there) The motivation here might be you need to get to a particular resource first (e.g. get to that alien probe) but you're risking your king-type piece to do it. Regarding godzilla vs bambi, I think it's a matter of making sure that bambi is much quicker than godzilla, despite being way less powerful. There were plenty of Archon rounds I had with my brother where one person won with what you might think is the weaker piece, just by chipping away at it. The key is giving them different characteristics to make up for any obvious weakness. Speed, timed shields, some kind of weapon that's a slow energy drain on the enemy, etc. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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