MiSTer FPGA - 7800 Core

[BrianC]

11 hours ago, mimo said:

From what I have seen you need SNAC to use atarivox, light guns etc 

I have SNAC, but AtariVox wasn't available on the official version of the core and I wasn't sure if the current adapters were compatible. The Stelladapter II has a specific firmware made especially for the AtariVox+ and actually powers on with the voice message through MiSTer.   

[RevEng]

It's been a while since I looked at connecting to AtariVox though a serial adapter, but there's a couple things that I believe would need to line up here fo stelladaptor atarivox to work...

• the serial port device presented to the Linux OS would need to be chosen in the UI (or somehow auto-detected), and it would need to be setup with a particular baud rate and flow control.
• the 7800 core would then need to pass though the bit-banged joystick port bits to that Linux serial port.

I have no idea if either of these are already implemented or not. Doubtlessly SNAC is easier, since the bit-banged joystick port lines are right there on the SNAC adapter, as if it were a real 7800.

[BrianC]

There's currently no 7800 specific SNAC, but that explains why AtariVox+ works only on the 2600 SNAC in the WIP core and not the Genesis/SMS SNAC. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by BrianC

[RevEng]

2 hours ago, BrianC said:

There's currently no 7800 specific SNAC, but that explains why AtariVox+ works only on the 2600 SNAC in the WIP core and not the Genesis/SMS SNAC. 

Yeah. And there likely won't be a 7800 specific SNAC. The 7800 does some odd things to the controller lines in 7800 mode, when two-button mode is enabled. But single-button games and AtariVox should work just fine in 7800 mode too, with the 2600 SNAC adapter.

[Kitrinx]

7 minutes ago, RevEng said:

Yeah. And there likely won't be a 7800 specific SNAC. The 7800 does some odd things to the controller lines in 7800 mode, when two-button mode is enabled. But single-button games and AtariVox should work just fine in 7800 mode too, with the 2600 SNAC adapter.

The pull-ups on snac don't seem to be adequate to drive the buttons on 7800 controllers, the original system had a strong pull up on pin5 when in two button mode. Also the two analog lines are pulled up on snac instead of in a floating state, like the real console. With some not-yet-released changes to input I made to fix a bug with star raiders, snac works fine for atarivox and savekey. You do have to use snac specifically made for atari, not one for genesis, since the power pin is in a different place on atari. The current from the genesis snac will not be adequate to power the atarivox.

[Trebor]

Just a heads up..  a considerable change took place since I posted respecting hardware availability with thanks to @HammR25 for bringing it to my attention.

 

Evidently, Amazon modified the results of the DE10-Nano link.  The link posted for the DE10-Nano now directs to a digital picture frame ?

 

I checked all links a few times prior to and after posting.   Apparently though with the global supply shortages, there are very little supplies for the board at this time or/and the demand has increased significantly; nonetheless, the listing from Amazon has been pulled.

 

Even a ebay search yields only one item new.  Current bid is $390.00 with ~11 hours left on the auction. 

 

In comparison, earlier this year when I purchased the DE10-Nano Kit, it was ~$140.  I recall when I posted the link, not too long ago, it was ~$170.

 

Hopefully, after the holidays, there will be some reasonable purchasing options for the main board, but it may take some time.

 

*EDIT: Way Back Machine - November 16, 2021 - same aforementioned Amazon link:

 

 

P.S. Currently, the bundles with 'extras' are sold out too from https://misteraddons.com/

 

THIS item and THIS item are not the correct product.  They are models featuring the older Cyclone IV.  The DE10-Nano, listed by Intel, contains the Cyclone V.  Additional info is available from the board designer and manufacturing partner, Terasic.

[zetastrike]

Is anyone else experiencing an issue with the 7800 core where bringing up the OSD makes the entire screen go black?  It only happens over analog video for me over both 15 KHz component and 31 KHz VGA, it doesn't happen over HDMI.

[Trebor]

I'm experiencing similar, but over HDMI.  I currently do not have the ability to test over analog.  More noticeable with POKEY based games, as the sound appears to be crashing/stuck similar to a 'hard break' instead of a 'soft pause'. 

 

If the ROM contains TIA sound only (or no sound), and the OSD is brought on and off quickly, there's a chance it seems to work fine. 

 

However, often leaving the OSD up for more than several seconds will result in either a black screen, garbled graphics, and/or a hard crash of the core.

 

*EDIT: Submitted an issue report.  This may be tied to the framework updates that are under development for the MiSTer, as currently Shadowmasks are broken as well.

 

*EDIT 2:  There is a relatively new option under the 7800 core, "Pause Core on OSD:". Set that to Off and it works around the issue, restoring the previous behavior of the ROM continuing to run in the background while the OSD is brought up.  Not ideal, since pausing the core with the OSD present is a very nice feature, but appears to be a necessity to have disabled, until the aforementioned is sorted.  The report was edited accordingly.

[Trebor]

How good is the replicating of Atari 2600 console hardware under the MiSTer 7800 core?

 

 

 

Congratulations, Atari7800_MiSTer core team!  It truly is a super impressive core.  Not only for its excellence in replicating the 7800 system, but just like the original ProSystem console hardware, replicating the VCS/2600 experience as well.

[Trebor]

Hey @zetastrike some feedback on that issue opened:

Quote

To be clear, pause when OSD is open is not the same function as the pause button is on 7800. It is in fact a "hard" pause where it halts all of the core clocks, allowing the core to be completely suspended, including 2600 and other games that may not have integrated pause functions. As such it no longer generates video signals for analog, and HDMI may have some disruptions as it transitions to an internal fake signal to keep the OSD working. This is expected behavior.

 

Games crashing is not intended and points to there being a bug, as is any kind of continuing sound.

So screen going black over analog is completely normal and the same may happen over HDMI too. 

However, obviously games should not crash and that is being worked on.

[Trebor]

Atari7800_MiSTer has been updated!

[mimo]

Anyone having better look than me getting a de10?

Ordered in October last year from mouser supposed to ship early December, then end January but now unknown. 

I see that the price on terasic website for direct sales has shot up (and sold out) so my guess is mouser will be cancelling my order soon.

At the current price I'm out ☹️

[+Muddyfunster]

I think they have become the proverbial hens teeth @mimo  

[mimo]

32 minutes ago, Muddyfunster said:

I think they have become the proverbial hens teeth @mimo  

Yeah, should have got one two years ago when I first wanted one.

Oh well 

[youxia]

I wanted to say "it only went up 20$ or so" because I was just looking at it like 2 days ago...then I went to Terasic's site again. Dear Lawd...what? Am I seeing 460 United States Dollars there?

 

EDIT:ufff...yeah, just me being silly and looking at the Standard edition. So, "it only went up 20$ or so" I mean, it's a bit over 200USD, but it's still not a bad deal for what this thing offers (especially seing as PSX is practically here, and Saturn not far off). If you buy sensibly (just DE10 & RAM) you can end up well under 300 USD.

 

Assuming you can get one, that is. I've heard emailing Terasic sales directly (even though it's Sold Out onsite) yields good results sometimes. Worth a punt perhaps.

Edited February 4, 2022 by youxia

[marauder666]

Still think the de10 nano is the best modern retro device i’ve ever bought.  I’d still buy it at the current price $70 more than i paid 2.5 years ago.

 

Dont need the analog board as i’ve got real consoles for that into a crt, so i’m using it over hdmi.

This kept the price down, only needed 128mb ram board, fan, heatsink, cheap usb hub.  Reused a lacie nas enclosure to house it, works very well and is small.

 

I did add an upgrade this week, a Raspberry pi zero 2 w, performing roland mt-32 emulation on some computer cores.  Fitted in same enclosure, directly connected to the headers on the de10.

[+Muddyfunster]

2 hours ago, marauder666 said:

I did add an upgrade this week, a Raspberry pi zero 2 w, performing roland mt-32 emulation on some computer cores.  Fitted in same enclosure, directly connected to the headers on the de10.

Thinking about doing this one too.

[juansolo]

7 hours ago, Muddyfunster said:

Thinking about doing this one too.

It's very cool and cheap enough to do.

10 hours ago, marauder666 said:

Still think the de10 nano is the best modern retro device i’ve ever bought.  I’d still buy it at the current price $70 more than i paid 2.5 years ago.

 

Dont need the analog board as i’ve got real consoles for that into a crt, so i’m using it over hdmi.

This kept the price down, only needed 128mb ram board, fan, heatsink, cheap usb hub.  Reused a lacie nas enclosure to house it, works very well and is small.

Yup, ours are bodged into some old LaCie NAS boxes. Don't have to be pretty on the inside. Also don't need all the other boards if you're plugging it into a panel.

 

 

Edited February 5, 2022 by juansolo

[mimo]

On 2/4/2022 at 10:11 PM, youxia said:

Assuming you can get one, that is. I've heard emailing Terasic sales directly (even though it's Sold Out onsite) yields good results sometimes. Worth a punt perhaps.

Tried that, they have some in stock if you ask, but now $210 +$63 for shipping, then import duty and whatever admin fees the shipper decides to put on top when it lands. That's $330 at least, or £278 gbp.
That is £115 gbp or $155 increase over what I paid in October

Edited February 8, 2022 by mimo

[youxia]

2 hours ago, mimo said:

That is £115 gbp or $155 increase over what I paid in October

That's a bummer, even if crazy shipping and/or customs are somewhat unrelated to the base price. But, yeah, that would certainly stop me from buying - I paid ~150$ for DE10 in 2020 + another 60$ for other bits and pieces and thought it's a lot back then...

 

I might actually ask my friends in Taiwan to get me one, and either keep it for me or send it as a gift. Hell knows how long this chip crisis will last. And after a 1.5 years with MiSTer I can't imagine using anything else (even though I'd been skeptical about it beforehand), so would like to have a backup or use it for PC cores on VGA monitor.

[mimo]

New shipping date from mouser 

29th July 2022

 

??????

[+Muddyfunster]

1 hour ago, mimo said:

New shipping date from mouser 

29th July 2022

 

??????

Is that at your original purchase price? 

[mimo]

11 minutes ago, Muddyfunster said:

Is that at your original purchase price? 

I believe that the price is still being honoured. Fingers crossed.

If so, it'll be worth the wait. But I hear that there are fewer than 400 boards on that shipment so anyone's guess if I'll actually get one 

[+Muddyfunster]

I was going to say if they are honouring the price, it's better than a kick in the chops, fingers crossed mate.

[akator]

9 hours ago, mimo said:

New shipping date from mouser 

29th July 2022

 

??????

I received the same update.  Fingers crossed it actually happens.