Fujinet Hardware 1.4 / 1.5

[+mytek]

18 hours ago, mozzwald said:

 

On 6/22/2021 at 7:41 AM, Faicuai said:

And, last but not least... why buffering the motor-line?

To completely separate fujinet from the Atari if fujinet is turned off.

 

Feel free to utilize this design if that helps: NUC-FujiNet-ONLY_V1.5_schema.pdf

 

We've had great success with it in our 576NUC+ project, does a complete disconnect of all SIO pins (including audio), and doesn't add anymore chips in the process. It accomplishes this by substituting a HCT4066 for one of the original 74LS07 chips. Also has a simpler Fujinet power off circuit, not requiring any MosFets. You could simply graft on your USB circuit.

 

[mozzwald]

On 6/22/2021 at 11:38 AM, Philsan said:

To avoid tweezers or tape, do you plan something to make card extraction easier?

 

For example:

- slot on top

- slot on the right side but in a higher position

- spring loaded slot

- more protruding card

- a case design that with recesses around the card to allow the fingers to grab the card more easily

Most of the suggestions you have here are non-options for the current design. Top and higher on the side is impossible (buttons, LEDs, antenna, screws). More protruding card is not possible. A recess on the front side of the case is possible to allow more finger access.

 

I spent a little time adding a push/push micro socket to the front side of the board (impossible to fit on the backside with current layout). Not sure how well this is going to work. It seems like it would be really close to the Atari and possibly more difficult to remove with Fujinet connected to Atari. I've probably got tunnel vision on this so any more ideas are welcome.

 

Here's what the new socket looks like in the old case:

 

PCB Front:

 

PCB Back:

[Pmetzen]

It would be good if there was also an RJ45 for LAN on the FujiNet. We know how unreliable Wi-Fi can be.

[+mytek]

2 hours ago, Pmetzen said:

It would be good if there was also an RJ45 for LAN on the FujiNet. We know how unreliable Wi-Fi can be.

To my recollection, there is no place to connect a hardwired LAN using the ESP32, after all it's a WiFi device.

 

As for reliability of the WiFi connection - never a problem with that on my end. Maybe you need to update your router

 

[tschak909]

The ESP32 can accept an ethernet PHY via the GPIO pins, the problem is, we're using them all

 

-Thom

[mdivancic]

7 hours ago, mytek said:

As for reliability of the WiFi connection - never a problem with that on my end. Maybe you need to update your router

Same here.  No issues…

[ok1rp]

Hi folks,

is there somewhere User manual for Fujinet card available to download please?

I did not found it yet...

My Fujinet rev.1.5 arrived yesterday afternoon. Yupeeee.

Thanks,

P.

Edited July 31, 2021 by ok1rp

[mozzwald]

1 hour ago, ok1rp said:

is there somewhere User manual for Fujinet card available to download please?

Best place to start is with the wiki https://github.com/fujiNetWIFI/fujinet-platformio/wiki

 

There are some videos on youtube also https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fujinet

[ok1rp]

Many thanks for these links.

I though that somewhere is available user manual with all information compiled but it looks like all needed basic information and tutorial is

here on Github server as same as in several YT vids. So I am going to study all of these.

See you on the Fujinet...:)

Petr

[pedalpowered]

On 7/24/2021 at 12:24 PM, tschak909 said:

The ESP32 can accept an ethernet PHY via the GPIO pins, the problem is, we're using them all

That's a shame. I, like some others, don't use WiFi (nor cell phones), so I won't be able to use FujiNet. If there is ever a version that can support Ethernet (even via a dongle, USB, or otherwise), I'll be interested, though.

[mozzwald]

2 hours ago, pedalpowered said:

That's a shame. I, like some others, don't use WiFi (nor cell phones), so I won't be able to use FujiNet. If there is ever a version that can support Ethernet (even via a dongle, USB, or otherwise), I'll be interested, though.

as @tschak909 stated, there are no more pins left so we cannot add ethernet. There is no USB host on the ESP32 so you can't add a dongle of any kind. You could get a wifi to ethernet bridge or just get a wifi router, but it sounds like you are not willing to use wifi.

 

If one were so inclined, they could create a board and remove some things like buttons, led's, sd card, etc and add ethernet. Then modify the firmware to support the new board. It's all open so anyone can build what they want.

 

 

[pedalpowered]

On 8/5/2021 at 7:42 PM, mozzwald said:

as @tschak909 stated, there are no more pins left so we cannot add ethernet. There is no USB host on the ESP32 so you can't add a dongle of any kind. You could get a wifi to ethernet bridge or just get a wifi router, but it sounds like you are not willing to use wifi.

 

If one were so inclined, they could create a board and remove some things like buttons, led's, sd card, etc and add ethernet. Then modify the firmware to support the new board. It's all open so anyone can build what they want.

I had read and understood what @tschak909 had written. By "ever a version" I was meaning by using different chip. Yes, I'm not willing to use WiFi, so a wifi-ethernet bridge is not an option. I'm a software dev, not a hardware dev, so modifying the current design won't be an option for me, but, if someone ever did, I'd be interested.

Edited August 7, 2021 by pedalpowered
clarity of what last sentence was referring to

[ok1rp]

Hi all,

 

after posting about my Fujinet arrival I got several private messages if I built the Fujinet card ownself or if purchased ...where I bought it assembled and ready to use as it looks like unavailable on most known Atari web pages now.

 

Well I purchased assembled and ready to go unit and I guess there is nothing secret to know it is from SellMyRetro pages. So just FYI...

 

Ahoj,

Petr

[irich2]

On 8/5/2021 at 4:42 PM, mozzwald said:

as @tschak909 stated, there are no more pins left so we cannot add ethernet. There is no USB host on the ESP32 so you can't add a dongle of any kind. You could get a wifi to ethernet bridge or just get a wifi router, but it sounds like you are not willing to use wifi.

 

If one were so inclined, they could create a board and remove some things like buttons, led's, sd card, etc and add ethernet. Then modify the firmware to support the new board. It's all open so anyone can build what they want.

 

 

 

When it comes time in a year or two or three to design a "FujiNet 2.0", please consider adding ethernet ability to it.  Whether that means adding more pins, using an ESP32 that does have a USB host (but is fully backward compatible with the one you're using now), or by some other method not thought of at this time.  In fact that could be your selling point for the 2.x series FujiNet: ethernet (hard-wire) capability.  It would probably be implemented through some sort of custom cable dongle, which would have either a USB-based or some other small connection to the FujiNet on one end, and an RJ-45 socket on the other end.

 

I understand that ethernet is a no-go for all series 1.x FujiNets.  But please please consider adding that feature to the 2.x series FujiNets.

[mozzwald]

4 hours ago, irich2 said:

 

When it comes time in a year or two or three to design a "FujiNet 2.0", please consider adding ethernet ability to it.  Whether that means adding more pins, using an ESP32 that does have a USB host (but is fully backward compatible with the one you're using now), or by some other method not thought of at this time.  In fact that could be your selling point for the 2.x series FujiNet: ethernet (hard-wire) capability.  It would probably be implemented through some sort of custom cable dongle, which would have either a USB-based or some other small connection to the FujiNet on one end, and an RJ-45 socket on the other end.

 

I understand that ethernet is a no-go for all series 1.x FujiNets.  But please please consider adding that feature to the 2.x series FujiNets.

I will not be making or even considering an ethernet based esp32 FujiNet, ever. There are simply not enough pins and most of the world is quite ok with wireless networking. Someone else can try to do it and make the proper firmware for it, I wish them luck.

[+mytek]

4 hours ago, irich2 said:

 

When it comes time in a year or two or three to design a "FujiNet 2.0", please consider adding ethernet ability to it.  Whether that means adding more pins, using an ESP32 that does have a USB host (but is fully backward compatible with the one you're using now), or by some other method not thought of at this time.  In fact that could be your selling point for the 2.x series FujiNet: ethernet (hard-wire) capability.  It would probably be implemented through some sort of custom cable dongle, which would have either a USB-based or some other small connection to the FujiNet on one end, and an RJ-45 socket on the other end.

 

I understand that ethernet is a no-go for all series 1.x FujiNets.  But please please consider adding that feature to the 2.x series FujiNets.

I don't get it. What's the reasoning for pushing a wired connection instead of wireless? WiFi, Bluetooth, radio, cell phones all work in the wireless domain - kinda taking a big step backwards to give that all up.

 

[_The Doctor__]

depending on where you live, wireless can be a mess. It is latent and slow... I have many hundreds of competing  signals across the spectrum where I live ... currently requires a balance of attenuation, and careful frequency choices to get things decent enough. I've taken to going old school and wiring up what can be including the televisions and related boxes to alleviate congestion.

[+mytek]

12 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said:

depending on where you live, wireless can be a mess. It is latent and slow... I have many hundreds of competing  signals across the spectrum where I live ... currently requires a balance of attenuation, and careful frequency choices to get things decent enough. I've taken to going old school and wiring up what can be including the televisions and related boxes to alleviate congestion.

Wow where do you live, that sounds like quite the traffic jam? I can't say that I've ever experienced that, and have no issues using multiple streaming boxes to view several 4K programs simultaneously, while also using WiFi for other uses at the same time (lot's of people in my home at times when the kids come for a visit). I also live on a very populated high density neighborhood with an apartment building across the street.

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by mytek

[_The Doctor__]

It doesn't help that in this city... everyone has every television, phone, video box, laptop, notebook, pad, amazon kindle/fire/etc., kid's pad, printer, alexa, google device, etc etc etc etc... wireless, and every one of those things seem to have wireless/bluetooth mice, keyboards, pads, speakers, security camera/doorbells and thermostats etc etc etc connected to them, this is also fun because groups of kids walk by with their phones providing wireless hot spots as do most of the cars, and they are all buetooth enabled as well and all that crap is also set up to connect to the cars. The kids have their earbuds etc all connected to their house stuff, the phone they are carrying, and the cars. Many of the groups also now carry JBL or similar speakers all connected and playing their 'music' in groups, not only is it loud and annoying but it's like a train where each car passes all tuned to the same noise 'music'... each one on it's own blutooth or wirelss connection. You can't really work around those disruptions...

 

This is tip of the iceberg really. The cable companies/ISP's are busy running around trying to adjust and set up eero's and orb's etc to set up home mesh networks... not to mention powerline devices... and that's fun as well since the smart meters have been installed in every location now all the power/water/and gas meters are also transmitting crap (though some in other frequency ranges) there's still harmonics and overlaps...

 

Time to move into a cornfield or at least an area where the distance between structures are far enough away from each other it won't matter

 

[+mytek]

Not to keep steering this topic too far off course, but I did talk to the guy installing the smart meters in our area about how they work, and he said that they were always on receive mode until asked to send data, which is done in a very quick burst. And that they typically send out that information less than 1% of the time. Our Smart Water Meter is even way less, since it runs on a battery it only sends the data burst once per month, and only when the utility truck passes by with a request for data.

 

Anyway to get back on topic, I really don't see it worthwhile to create a new hard wired Ethernet version of FujiNet for a few fringe cases. Because this would not only take completely new hardware, but also new firmware as well. And then there is the logistical problem of facilitating both protocols through the FujiNet Flasher. And all this just to support a very few individuals with WiFi issues.

 

If you truly have an issue with WiFi interference, I would suggest using wired Ethernet for everything that can accept it, and for something like FujiNet place a WiFi router in the same room - can't see how other people's signals would be able to disrupt that, since the signal quickly falls off over distance.

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by mytek

[+Brentarian]

@irich2, If you are running a TNFS server on an RPi, why not also use that RPi as an access point and keep near your Fujinet?

https://thepi.io/how-to-use-your-raspberry-pi-as-a-wireless-access-point/

[+mytek]

1 minute ago, Brentarian said:

@irich2, If you are running a TNFS server on an RPi, why not also use that RPi as an access point and keep near your Fujinet?

https://thepi.io/how-to-use-your-raspberry-pi-as-a-wireless-access-point/

Excellent suggestion Brent ?

 

This should take care of all the people with marginal WiFi. But unfortunately the ones wearing tin foil hats might still be left out

 

[_The Doctor__]

Your super secret Atari files exposed to the air waves? Say it ain't so!

Our smart meters are networked and all talk to each other... no truck needs to drive by to do anything. They can remotely turn the power on and off now as well... no electrician needed.

they are now arranged in clusters in order reduce problems they had with their wifi, they leap frog down the net until they hit a master or main smart meter that holds all the information for it's cluster.

Edited August 29, 2021 by _The Doctor__

[Mazzspeed]

If you want Ethernet, run FujiNet-PC on a RPi. That's what I do and Ethernet works fine.

 

I have no problem using WiFi, that's just how my RPi400 was configured when I installed FujiNet-PC, so I left it that way.

[_The Doctor__]

Sounds reasonable, might be worth a try