The official MS-DOS thread

[Billy Beans]

3 minutes ago, newtmonkey said:

@Billy Beans

Thanks for replying!  I did import my winning party from Pool of Radiance into Azure Bonds and actually did make some progress in it (two bonds removed).  Maybe I'll switch back and forth between Darklands and Curse of the Azure Bonds, since they are so different it shouldn't mix me up!

I loved games that let you import/export characters. I remember doing that with the Quest for Glory games too. If you did certain things in the game, you could also end up with a paladin.

[Agamon]

I missed Darklands the first time around and it's always sounded intriguing, but the Digital Antiquarian's overview of the game made me appreciate the developer's chutzpah, but I'm definitely going to give it a pass...

[youxia]

I did say it's "different", because it's unlike most of the other CRPGS where you follow a strict path. This is a true open world, where you can actually roleplay and live a life. And while not perfect, it's no less playable than any other games from this genre. Pity that DA missed out on that.

[Keatah]

3 hours ago, zzip said:

And it wasn't just the cost, it was the capacity.   I was on ST at the time, and I'd look at my case of floppies, and realize that a 10 or 20mb hard drive could only store the equivalent a handful of floppies, for several hundred dollars.   Was hard to justify the cost.

My old Apple II BBS eventually got a 10MB Sider drive. Second only to Corvus "computer lab" drives in size and weight.

 

For me it wasn't about having a place to put disks, but a means to an end. Needed to have many disks and images and other files online simultaneously. A two-floppy AE simply would not do.

[Billy Beans]

2 hours ago, Keatah said:

My old Apple II BBS eventually got a 10MB Sider drive. Second only to Corvus "computer lab" drives in size and weight.

 

For me it wasn't about having a place to put disks, but a means to an end. Needed to have many disks and images and other files online simultaneously. A two-floppy AE simply would not do.

In the Napster days, that might be two or three songs worth of storage.

[newtmonkey]

I picked up my AD&D Curse of the Azure Bonds playthrough today.  Now I remember why I had stopped playing suddenly—I honestly don't really care much for this one (even though I loved Pool of Radiance).  I had already cleared two of my bonds previously, so now I'm clearing out the Pit of Moander.  This place just sucks haha.  Every battle here seems to include several cultists that each can cast "hold person" on my fighters (which is basically an instakill most of the time), and it's up to the luck of the dice whether my mages can go first to try to disrupt them with a fireball or stinking cloud.

 

I can also see the boss encounters becoming more and more gimmicky, requiring you to fight the battle, see what you're up against and probably get killed, reload and shuffle your spells around, then try again.  This is honestly not really what I look for in an RPG, so I'll put this one aside and maybe revisit it when I'm more in the mood.

[IntelliMission]

22 hours ago, newtmonkey said:

I'm trying to decide which DOS RPG to play next.  I've made varying amounts of progress in the following but am wondering if anyone has any thoughts on these:

 

• Might & Magic II: Gates to Another World
• AD&D: Curse of the Azure Bonds
• The Magic Candle
• Wizardry VI: Bane of the Cosmic Forge
• Quest for Glory II: Trial by Fire
• The Elder Scrolls: Arena
• Dragon Wars
• Demon's Winter

(I've already finished M&M1, AD&D Pool of Radiance, Wizardry 1-3&5, QFG1, The Bard's Tale 1-3, Ultima 1/3/4 and Wasteland over the last few years).

I'm starting to get the impression that RPGs are your favorite genre.

[newtmonkey]

1 hour ago, newtmonkey said:

I picked up my AD&D Curse of the Azure Bonds playthrough today.  Now I remember why I had stopped playing suddenly—I honestly don't really care much for this one (even though I loved Pool of Radiance)... this is honestly not really what I look for in an RPG, so I'll put this one aside and maybe revisit it when I'm more in the mood.

I gave this another shot and was able to clear the Pit of Moander without much trouble.  I had forgotten how powerful pre-battle buffing spells are, and didn't even really have to shuffle spells around at all.  Bless/Prayer/Haste before the boss battle, then Fireball and Hold Monster during the battle got me through it (as well as the second boss battle before you leave the area).  I like this game again! ?

[Billy Beans]

1 hour ago, newtmonkey said:

I picked up my AD&D Curse of the Azure Bonds playthrough today.  Now I remember why I had stopped playing suddenly—I honestly don't really care much for this one (even though I loved Pool of Radiance).  I had already cleared two of my bonds previously, so now I'm clearing out the Pit of Moander.  This place just sucks haha.  Every battle here seems to include several cultists that each can cast "hold person" on my fighters (which is basically an instakill most of the time), and it's up to the luck of the dice whether my mages can go first to try to disrupt them with a fireball or stinking cloud.

 

I can also see the boss encounters becoming more and more gimmicky, requiring you to fight the battle, see what you're up against and probably get killed, reload and shuffle your spells around, then try again.  This is honestly not really what I look for in an RPG, so I'll put this one aside and maybe revisit it when I'm more in the mood.

I played through all of the SSI Gold Box games, and truthfully found Pool of Radiance to be the most tedious of the bunch. I still liked it though. Curse of the Azure Bonds was one of my favorites. I found the story more interesting and liked seeing how your characters get more powerful as they level above level 8. I would love to see some new games made in a similar style.

[IntelliMission]

I just found a 2018 review of Sam & Max: Hit the Road by a millennial who's in love with the game and got hyped for it.

 

I suffered a lot in 1995 to finish this, but maybe I give it another try now that I have more experience with the genre.

 

I will play the English version in case there are too many wordplays not particularly well translated into Spanish.

[IntelliMission]

Anyone had Veil of Darkness as a kid (or has discovered it later)?

 

i had it in the early 90s and never understood how it work (I didn't even know what an RPG was), but I just checked its soundtrack and... it's pretty cool!

[IntelliMission]

Since I'm alternating between Titus the Fox and Sam & Max, here's a couple of tips:

 

- In Sam & Max, don't play the Highway mini-game. It never ends and you can't escape with "Q". The game is "laughing at you".

 

- In Titus the Fox, level 10 has a weird bug (at least in DOSBox) where the game crashes after the stage music ends. The crash screen is very similar to the text that appears before the initial title of the game ("STILL PLAYING THE GAME IN 2021!"), but with some odd characters replacing some words. I tried using codes to get to level 11, but they don't work because they generate differently in each DOS machine or something (thanks, French programmers, for this "useful" feature). Tried disabling the sound, didn't work (DOSBox save file was corrupted when using different machine values). So in the end the trick was to press F3 to disable the music. Whoa.

[youxia]

I played some Screamer this week, first time since 1998. I must admit it wasn't a great experience. I think I just got too used to games with more serious driving model (even arcade ones) where your car doesn't spin or flip at a slightest touch. On the other hand, I had a similar feeling when trying to play Ridge Racer recently.

 

Th gfx still rocks though...even if it's a bit "too sharp"....this would really look ace on a CRT TV, not monitor.

[newtmonkey]

On 4/27/2021 at 1:14 AM, Billy Beans said:

I loved games that let you import/export characters. I remember doing that with the Quest for Glory games too. If you did certain things in the game, you could also end up with a paladin.

Same here, I wish more games nowadays would let you do this.

 

I took a single party all through Wizardry 1-3&5 (DOS version) over the last few years, and really had a great time doing it.  It was immensely satisfying to finish Wizardry 5 with the same group of losers I struggled with through Wizardry 1!

 

I did the same with The Bard's Tale 1-3, though that was less satisfying just because they really aren't good games imo haha.

 

I do plan on playing through all the Gold Box games at some point, and I'll take the same party through each game that allows it.  Instead of just going through each series, though, I am thinking of playing the games in order of release to break things up a bit.

[newtmonkey]

On 4/29/2021 at 2:57 AM, IntelliMission said:

Anyone had Veil of Darkness as a kid (or has discovered it later)?

 

i had it in the early 90s and never understood how it work (I didn't even know what an RPG was), but I just checked its soundtrack and... it's pretty cool!

I didn't play this one back in the day, but got pretty far into it a few years ago.  You might want to give it another chance now, it's actually closer to a point-and-click adventure game than an RPG in a lot of ways.

[Billy Beans]

7 minutes ago, newtmonkey said:

Same here, I wish more games nowadays would let you do this.

 

I took a single party all through Wizardry 1-3&5 (DOS version) over the last few years, and really had a great time doing it.  It was immensely satisfying to finish Wizardry 5 with the same group of losers I struggled with through Wizardry 1!

 

I did the same with The Bard's Tale 1-3, though that was less satisfying just because they really aren't good games imo haha.

 

I do plan on playing through all the Gold Box games at some point, and I'll take the same party through each game that allows it.  Instead of just going through each series, though, I am thinking of playing the games in order of release to break things up a bit.

I love the Ultima games, and in hindsight, the games would have been even better if you could have imported your character from one game to the next. I mean, you were the "Avatar" after all.

[newtmonkey]

@Billy Beans

It would have been cool if you could take the same character from Ultima 1-9 haha.  If I recall correctly, though, I think you can transfer your character from 4-6?

[Billy Beans]

2 minutes ago, newtmonkey said:

@Billy Beans

It would have been cool if you could take the same character from Ultima 1-9 haha.  If I recall correctly, though, I think you can transfer your character from 4-6?

I thought that might have been a feature in later games, but it's been a long time since I've played any Ultima game. Also, the games had a weird release/re-release timeline.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Billy Beans
Word correction

[IntelliMission]

@youxia The one I had is Screamer 2, more similar to Sega Rally. Which reminds me I should try to finish it for the first time.

Edited April 30, 2021 by IntelliMission

[IntelliMission]

Here's a quick review of the 3 platform games I have finished over the last weeks:

 

- Prince of Persia: A masterpiece, everyone should play this. Saving the game just before each level should work to create just enough challenge, except for maybe the guillotines in level 8 (you need to run to a door which is closing or you get stuck, and the guillotines are just in the border of the screen when you switch from one screen to the other). There are surprises with enemies, level design... Great fun!

 

- Blues Brothers: Very underrated and fun game only let down by the abrupt scrolling (not present in Amiga). There are only 5 levels and a half (the final one is easy and short) and you can complete each one without losing a life with practice (and saving before each one). I haven't tried to beat the game without saving, but it should be a nice challenge. The system of picking up vinyls (100 gets you a heart), hearts and extra lives is well balanced. You get temporary invincibility when an enemy hits you and you don't bounce off (unlike Titus the Fox...), which helps a lot. Even the water level is kind of cool.

 

- Titus the Fox: Now this is a different beast. The developers took Blues Brothers and added 4-5 ultra-hard boss fights, the possibility of getting stuck, labyrinthic levels, annoying flying enemies that can get through walls and interactive puzzles with bouncing balls and trampolines. The graphics are great, the music is great and the mechanics are super fun, but the abrupt scrolling combined with the masochistic difficulty make this game one where you must save every few seconds. The developers should have made this an Another World-like experience, with infinite lives and multiple checkpoints. And maybe remove the flying f***ers.

 

I'm currently playing Sam & Max and the puzzles are not as bad as I expected... Shame about the (imho) failed comedy, because the graphics and music are excellent. The interface is not as bad as they say either, but there should be a quick way to access the inventory like Sierra games, just by moving the cursor up. Here you must click the box and it also takes some time to load, it's not instant like Sierra games. And once you're in the inventory, selecting is not the default icon and you must press the right button once to switch from the eye to the hand. Let's see if I can continue that way without looking at a guide: so far, I have opened 4 locations and I'm almost done with opening a 5th one.

[Lord Mushroom]

A childhood friend of mine had a DOS-only computer. By far the best game he had was Bubble Bobble. Two player gaming doesn´t get much better than that.

[IntelliMission]

I just "accidentally" found a 2007 topic in the Adventure Gamers forum with the following opinion:

 

Quote

Adventure gaming faltered BECAUSE it tried to abandon its early cliches. If I want intellectual stimulation, I'll read a book - adventure games are best when indulging childhood fantasies about starships or enchanted forests. The medium fundamentally lacks the potenial for acheiving the emotional depth of film or literature, and must set aside its pretentions and focus on its strengths (pretty scenery, clever writing, and the joy of exploration).

The last 10+ years of adventure games are an uninterrupted crapfest.

Almost every advance in technology has further robbed the genre of its potential richness.
* Abandoning the text parser eliminated most novel or unexpected avenues of player interaction, and the further reduction to modern hotspot interfaces dumbed things down to the level of guesswork.
* Increasing graphic fidelity stifled the player's imagination, and 3D rendered SVGA graphics eliminated any potential charm or character in the visuals at all.
* The emergence of digitized speech and its supplanting of textual dialog, descriptions, and narration slashed the rate at which the player could absorb information, and the vastly higher production and storage costs further reduced the amount of such information present by at least an order of magnitude.
* The combined effect of the above can be likened to reducing the state of the art from, say, a well written but juvenile novel (ex. The Hobbit) to something more like an extravagantly illustrated storybook for preschoolers.

Oh, and the original Sam and Max is the most overrated adventure game of them all, and perhaps the beginning of the end. Aside from being tedious, utterly unfunny, and vaguely distasteful, the interface is terrible.

 

I also have the feeling graphic adventures have a lot of unused potential as a genre, but developers keep getting them wrong.

[youxia]

 

It's a tough going sometimes, but I believe we're making progress.

[IntelliMission]

Yeah, I don't agree on the "text adventures were better" part. But it's interesting how many people agree on that.

 

I also wonder if a "hand" icon is actually better than use/push/pull/give buttons.

[schuwalker]

Our family's first venture into pc gaming was a XT computer (that Laser one looks familiar) which I believe dad bought in '88. I think he used it mostly for work ,but we did own a few games for it. I recall playing Life And Death 1 and The Train - love that game!

 

Now when it really took for me was in '89. My friend's dad, who had a obsession with aviation, brought home a Packard Bell 286 / 16mhz along with a copy of Flight Simulator 3 or 4 (whatever one was released that year) and a CH Flightstick. Around that time frame, I was friends with a kid whose dad was somehow involved in the pc world for work. I know at that time, he had the best spec'd computer and the newest game released - most were cracked of course. So we would borrow Msdos game or two, install it in my friend's dad pc and play the hell out of it. I recall Targhan, Revenge of Doh, Sinbad: Throne of the Falcon was some of the earlier ones. Then some of the newer hits were Loom, Secret of Monkey Island 1 and 2, Stunts, Test Drive III, Zany Golf, Tongue of the Fatman, Their Finest Hour, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (graphic and adventure), Code Name:Iceman, Secret Agent David Wolf, Ghostbusters II, Day of the Tentacle, Chuck Yeager's Air Combat, Legend of Kyrandia... I can go on and on. This kicked of my obsession with point and click adventure and WW2 flight simulators.

 

I think it was around '91, where dad upgraded and got a 386 / 25mhz computer. Funny thing I remember getting Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade VGA 256 color version even before we had this computer. I bought most of the Lucasfilm games that came out then. Skipped over The Dig and Full Throttle for some reason. Dad was also really into the WW1 and 2 games. He got Dynamix Red Baron, Aces of the Pacific and Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe while I got my point and click like Robin Hood: Conquest of Longbow, James Bond Stealth Affair, Countdown by Access (underrated). Dad really got into Wolfenstein 3d when that came out... think he might have had the truncated shareware version before.

 

Kinda checked out of gaming in general in the mid '90s, think the last game I really got into that point was Tie Fighter and the expansion packs. Was reinvigorated again with the advent of MAME and Callus - Capcom arcade emulator.

 

This past year or two... I got addicted to that late 80's early '90s era of pc gaming - especially the point and clicks like King's Quest and Quest for Glory series, need to check out the Kyrandia sequels. I wanted to get some of my favorites games boxed. Stunts and Spear of Destiny come to mind. Holy moly - they're expensive.

 

Anybody ever played Star Trek: Judgment Rites? That one looks fun!