Starting the Phantasy Star series

[ChildOfCv]

On 6/4/2021 at 9:25 PM, NE146 said:

There was a time I'd probably have called myself a Phantasy Star fanboy. I paid $99 for Phantasy Star on the SMS back in the 80''s and it was really my first RPG experience. I was super excited for Phantasy Star II but to be honest it disappointed me by the simple fact it abandoned the 3D dungeons. I finished it anyway but I didn't love it as much as the original.  When PSIII came out I excitedly got that too, and finished it (saving at the points of marriage to try out some different paths). As we all know that was a really dry Phantasy Star game... and it pretty much ended my fascination with the series.  

Yeah I finished one playthrough on one path, but lost interest while in the middle of leaf 2 of path 1.

[ChildOfCv]

On 6/4/2021 at 1:59 PM, thegoldenband said:

I did hand-drawn maps for the whole game, on graph paper. It was the only way I could wrap my head around everything.

I used Excel since they are pretty much a grid, so you can adjust cell border colors/thickness/presence to indicate walls or no walls, and add annotations.  But yeah, same.

[ChildOfCv]

On 6/2/2021 at 9:15 PM, Asaki said:

Same here (except on the DS, not Switch). I opted to just check a walkthrough...I had to check another time or two as well...the game doesn't really like to tell you where to go next. I think there were quite a few times where I found myself exploring areas I wasn't supposed to yet.

That's one of the things I do like.  I'm not a fan of FF's hand-holding where you only have access to the areas you're supposed to go next (and even later on when it was straight up scripted).  PS1 was a bit of a shock though, the first time I encountered an enemy on a forest tile.  Grass, yeah I can do that all day.  One tree around, inside the city walls even, and you get your ass handed to you.

But it's cool to at least be able to walk into an area that might be a bit much to handle at the moment, rather than being walled off from it.

[Asaki]

13 hours ago, ChildOfCv said:

That's one of the things I do like.  I'm not a fan of FF's hand-holding where you only have access to the areas you're supposed to go next (and even later on when it was straight up scripted).

I like non-linear, but usually, you'll find an NPC somewhere who gives you a hint of what you should probably be doing.

Or like that part where you finally find the Laerma Berries, and you know they have something to do with the Laconian Pot, but you're not sure how the game wants you to put them together...

That whole planet was basically "I don't know. Figure it out."

[+jeremiahjt]

17 hours ago, ChildOfCv said:

That's my biggest gripe with dungeon RPGs in general, but especially with games like PS2.  You're going through facilities that were supposedly once "business as usual", except that arriving daily at work to reach the control center involves a series of transports up and down floors covering from one side to the other, then jumping through a hole at the top center to fall down 4 floors into the basement....

I just got to the first dungeon and those transporters are annoying. I do not know if the part about falling down a hole on the fourth floor was hyperbole or not, but I will be on the lookout now.

[+Ryan Witmer]

12 hours ago, jeremiahjt said:

I just got to the first dungeon and those transporters are annoying. I do not know if the part about falling down a hole on the fourth floor was hyperbole or not, but I will be on the lookout now.

It helps when you realize that they're not really transporters, they're just fancy stairs.

 

If I remember right, if the arrows on the outside point away from the center, it goes up, if they point in, it goes down.

[+jeremiahjt]

1 minute ago, Ryan Witmer said:

It helps when you realize that they're not really transporters, they're just fancy stairs.

 

If I remember right, if the arrows on the outside point away from the center, it goes up, if they point in, it goes down.

That makes sense.  Thank you.

[+jeremiahjt]

The guns in the first Phantasy Star (Needle, Heat, and Laser) hit every enemy on every attack.  I was expecting the same thing in Phantasy Star II, and I was disappointed.  The Bow Gun and Sonic Gun only attack one enemy, plus the attack is pretty poor for both.  I decided to give the Shotgun found in Arima a chance, and I am glad I did.  It only attacks two enemies instead of all, but two is better than one and the attack is much better than what the Bow Gun or Sonic Gun offers.  After seeing what Rudo could do with it, I decided to save up and get Rolf a scattergun of his own and he cannot even use it!  Hopefully the Sword sold in Arima gives him a nice boost to his attack.

 

That first dungeon was slightly confusing, but thanks to @Ryan Witmer telling me what I thought were teleporters were actually stairs I think it will make it less confusing.  After I get the Sword for Rolf I will head back and try to finish it.  This time with some Monomates and Dimates along for the ride.  That attack that Froggy does is pretty devastating at this stage in the game.

[+Ryan Witmer]

8 minutes ago, jeremiahjt said:

The guns in the first Phantasy Star (Needle, Heat, and Laser) hit every enemy on every attack.  I was expecting the same thing in Phantasy Star II, and I was disappointed.  The Bow Gun and Sonic Gun only attack one enemy, plus the attack is pretty poor for both.  I decided to give the Shotgun found in Arima a chance, and I am glad I did.  It only attacks two enemies instead of all, but two is better than one and the attack is much better than what the Bow Gun or Sonic Gun offers.

The big advantage to guns in PS2 (and this continues into 3 and 4, if memory serves) is that they largely ignore the target's defense stat.  Guns do massive damage (relatively) to heavily armored enemies.  Against softer targets melee weapons will do a lot more damage.

[+jeremiahjt]

1 hour ago, Ryan Witmer said:

The big advantage to guns in PS2 (and this continues into 3 and 4, if memory serves) is that they largely ignore the target's defense stat.  Guns do massive damage (relatively) to heavily armored enemies.  Against softer targets melee weapons will do a lot more damage.

That is what I figured, but the early guns do so little damage that it really does not matter.

[+jeremiahjt]

I think I am finished with Shure dungeon.  I found the body with the letter and key by myself, but I went ahead and looked at the guide to check out the map to see where I needed to fall off the third floor.  As far as I can tell you do not need to fall down the hole.  The guide mentioned a Shotgun on the third level, but I could not find another chest anywhere.  The guide also said "a very dangerous opponent will appear" on the fourth level.  Nobody ever showed up.  Did I miss something or does it mean one of the Biomonsters only appear on the fourth level?  I think the Pulser only appears on the top level.

[+jeremiahjt]

I finished with the Biosystems Lab and I used a map for the whole thing.  I decided these dungeons were a little too big plus those stupid conduit or pipes overhead make it hard to see some stuff.  The first time I made it to the bottom level of the Biosystems Lab I immediately ran into two Blasters and they wiped my party out in two rounds.  The second time I made it I found all three treasure chests, but not the recorder, and I never ran into them.  The third time after looking online to see where the recorder was found, I ran into two Blasters immediately and they wasted my party in three rounds (they would not let me run).  So the fourth time down I found the recorder without ever running into them.

 

I was definitely surprised to see how the Darum and Teim storyline ended.  I was not expecting the father to stab the daughter to death and I was really not expecting Darum to blow himself up with dynamite. Damn.

 

One thing I like about the battle system is that you can put a weapon in each hand.  Nei is really powerful swinging two Ceramic Bars around.  So far Amy has been useless in battle and I think Hugh will be the same way.

[+Ryan Witmer]

The first time I played PS2, I didn't have any reference of any kind, not even the manual.  Later I learned about all the cool items that you can use in battle.  There's a variety of objects that cast different spells, and you can use them forever!

 

Knowing this changes the game in a big way, and characters like Amy and Hugh (and to a lesser extent, Shir) can be very valuable if you give them the right items to use in combat.  Of course, Amy is valuable for her healing techs and Hugh can be really effective in the right circumstances.

[ChildOfCv]

5 hours ago, jeremiahjt said:

One thing I like about the battle system is that you can put a weapon in each hand.  Nei is really powerful swinging two Ceramic Bars around.  So far Amy has been useless in battle and I think Hugh will be the same way.

Amy is a healer, primarily.

 

Edit:  Oh, Ryan already mentioned that

I think it's the second or third major building that you have to your first grand tour and fall-through on.  There are others that also have some degree of hole-pathing too.

Edited June 9, 2021 by ChildOfCv

[Asaki]

7 hours ago, jeremiahjt said:

...those stupid conduit or pipes overhead make it hard to see some stuff.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

It looks cool, but gets annoying fast.

[+Ryan Witmer]

18 hours ago, jeremiahjt said:

those stupid conduit or pipes overhead make it hard to see some stuff.

I actually sent a screenshot of those very pipes to the artist I'm working with on my PC game.  He used them as a model for this background:

 

Of course, there's no need to see underneath the stupid things in my game.  I always got the impression that the developers got a little drunk with power when it came to the Genesis' ability to do multi-layered backgrounds.

[ChildOfCv]

14 hours ago, Ryan Witmer said:

I always got the impression that the developers got a little drunk with power when it came to the Genesis' ability to do multi-layered backgrounds.

SNES did the same thing too in their Final Fantasy releases.

 

I didn't like it there either.

[+jeremiahjt]

I left Zema and headed South and then East and got my rear end handed to me. So I decided to head West instead and found this lovely little village called Kueri. Kueri has three things I noticed: a man inventing gum for underwater breathing, native Motavians (or Motans now) who seem to be terrified of humans even though they live in the same town as some, and expensive armor and weapon shops.

 

I decided to do some grinding for mesetas to buy all this new equipment. I had Rudo and Hugh with me and I bought all the best equipment for them and Rolf and Nei. I then went and grabbed Amy and Kain to do the same. I first have to build up Kain since he is too weak for the powerful enemies surrounding Kueri.

 

Hugh actually is doing some damage with the Acid Shot. Since his hit points are low I grabbed a Ceramic Shield (the most expensive item in the game so far) instead of another weapon.

 

I like fighting the Fanbites since they give tons of mesetas, but I swear one of them took over 100 or so hit points on Rudo on a single attack. I do not know if they have a special instant death attack or what, but it caught me off guard for sure.

[ChildOfCv]

1 hour ago, jeremiahjt said:

Hugh actually is doing some damage with the Acid Shot. Since his hit points are low I grabbed a Ceramic Shield (the most expensive item in the game so far) instead of another weapon.

Hugh's specialty is fighting bio enemies.  I think Kain is the specialist in fighting mechs.

[+Ryan Witmer]

13 hours ago, jeremiahjt said:

Since his hit points are low I grabbed a Ceramic Shield (the most expensive item in the game so far) instead of another weapon.

Some players insist on giving Amy two shields (or emels, or whatever they're called) instead of a weapon.  I'm not in this camp, but I think it's a interesting idea.

 

I just started streaming PS2 on my Twitch channel after finishing the first game.  I've only done one session, playing long enough to get Rudo and some equipment from Paseo.  I might play some more tonight.

[+jeremiahjt]

1 hour ago, Ryan Witmer said:

Some players insist on giving Amy two shields (or emels, or whatever they're called) instead of a weapon.  I'm not in this camp, but I think it's a interesting idea.

 

I just started streaming PS2 on my Twitch channel after finishing the first game.  I've only done one session, playing long enough to get Rudo and some equipment from Paseo.  I might play some more tonight.

I thought about doing that, but I decided I wanted some offense out of her and Hugh.

[+jeremiahjt]

13 hours ago, ChildOfCv said:

Hugh's specialty is fighting bio enemies.  I think Kain is the specialist in fighting mechs.

I read that, but Hugh's Techniques do not seem all that great for fighting anybody.

[+jeremiahjt]

I spent a ton of time grinding around Kueri until every single character had tbe best possible equipment. I finally tackled Roron and I was way over-powered. Although those self replicating/fragmenting Slugmess enemies did present a challenge. Even looking at the map I could not figure out how to get to the other part of Roron. Making you walk through the black part was sneaky.

 

Now that I have the Jet Scooter I get to explore the ocean and help that inventor in Kueri create his gum. I can also now check out the Southeast section of the continent since it has been cutoff from the rest.

 

I am still having difficulty with the techniques. Those names are out there.

[+Ryan Witmer]

10 hours ago, jeremiahjt said:

I am still having difficulty with the techniques. Those names are out there.

Most of the tech names are re-used in 4 (and 3, to a lesser extent) and I played the crap out of those games before playing 2, so I knew most of them going in.

 

Hugh and Kain have a lot of weird ones that don't appear again in future games.  Those ones still confuse me.

[+jeremiahjt]

Made it to Piata and found more expensive equipment, so more meseta grinding for me.

 

I went searching the oceans everywhere and found an island and a shoal maybe. I guess the underwater breathing gum is so I can explore the shoal.

 

Why did they change the names of the planets? I understand the characters have to have 4 letter names, but why the planets? Are the planets like Mogo (Green Lantern reference)? Sentient and they join your party?