Neon (Demo) - Hypertext (ADF) Browser for Atari

[massiverobot]

32 minutes ago, Gibstov said:

 

:text
<-PREVIOUS    NEXT->
:link $li "Page1" #ML 0 #MR 9 ;use #ml,#mr to control inverse
:link $li "Page3" #ML E #MR 13 ;use #ml,#mr to control inverse  

 

 

yes- getting way into the weeds here, but we could keep a lot of the complexity of this DOC pagination/carding on the web side.

 

Imagine that there is just a single, potentially large AHF source file created from a HTML input file. Or created by a content creator by hand. But it's much larger than a single Atari screen.

 

That file, once the work is done to create the AHF file, stays on the server ready to be converted into many DOC files.

 

Now, as the Server Component is sending a specific DOC file back to Neon, it will dynamically chop the larger AHF file into proper DOC 'cards', with all the right relative links embedded in the DOCs as needed.

 

just like you put:

:text
<-PREVIOUS    NEXT->
:link $li "Page1" #ML 0 #MR 9 ;use #ml,#mr to control inverse
:link $li "Page3" #ML E #MR 13 ;use #ml,#mr to control inverse  

 

So the Page1 and Page3 are valid for as long as that AHF file didn't change.

 

If the source AHF file changed the Server would just compute a new series of DOCs with the proper Page#, and as Neon asked for them via URI, the Server would know which exact DOC 'page' to send down for this 'stack' created from the AHF source file.

 

The real URIs wouldn't map to real DOC files at first, but that is why the Server Component/PHP app is useful, it can take any URI spec we want to make and map that into a series of DOCs 'cards' that correspond to a single AHF stack.

 

I think we are all on the same page!

 

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by massiverobot
clarity

[massiverobot]

Working with @tschak909 - @Gibstov can you allow Neon to [R] more than 16 characters? So we can load some DOC files on the web!

 

[+CharlieChaplin]

Well,

 

I do not know if you have the time (or interest) to look at some old A8 programs that were intended to do some stuff "similar to HTML". Afair, there was a program where you could read a text and clicking on some underlined or inverse word in that text would work as a "link" and therefore load a picture or a sound, etc.

 

Maybe some of these old A8 programs (namely Comrun, Cardstax, Hyper-It) are good for inspiration of your current project. And if not, no problem...

 

COMRUN.zip CARDSTAX.zip HYPERIT.zip

[Gibstov]

10 minutes ago, massiverobot said:

Working with @tschak909 - @Gibstov can you allow Neon to [R] more than 16 characters? So we can load some DOC files on the web!

 

OK...thanks.

 

I knew it wouldn't be this easy  

 

Hopefully it will be an easy fix.

[massiverobot]

19 minutes ago, CharlieChaplin said:

Well,

 

I do not know if you have the time (or interest) to look at some old A8 programs that were intended to do some stuff "similar to HTML". Afair, there was a program where you could read a text and clicking on some underlined or inverse word in that text would work as a "link" and therefore load a picture or a sound, etc.

 

Maybe some of these old A8 programs (namely Comrun, Cardstax, Hyper-It) are good for inspiration of your current project. And if not, no problem...

 

COMRUN.zip 116.69 kB · 1 download CARDSTAX.zip 57.63 kB · 1 download HYPERIT.zip 49.11 kB · 1 download

Who has source for these? Are they your apps? Will you release the source up to Github? that would be very helpful I'm sure.

 

[Gibstov]

26 minutes ago, massiverobot said:

Working with @tschak909 - @Gibstov can you allow Neon to [R] more than 16 characters? So we can load some DOC files on the web!

 

Could you verify the full path of the URL you are trying to use.

 

The filename isn't limited to 16 characters..but I do believe the print statement of "Loading..." is only printing 16 characters.

 

The fact that is giving you an Error 7, means that it is a FORMAT error.  Or it doesn't like the document.  If it was something related to not being able to find the file...it should give you an Error 1, Device error.

 

The loading works by using the burst mode when loading a file...could this be causing an issue?

 

I'll have to troubleshoot more when I get home.

 

[Gibstov]

52 minutes ago, massiverobot said:

Working with @tschak909 - @Gibstov can you allow Neon to [R] more than 16 characters? So we can load some DOC files on the web!

 

Quick question...which version of Neon are you using... the Demo version in this thread or the one I sent @tschak909 .

 

There may be an incompatible issue here between the two versions.

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Gibstov

[tschak909]

12 minutes ago, Gibstov said:

Quick question...which version of Neon are you using... the Demo version in this thread or the one I sent @tschak909 .

 

There may be an incompatible issue here between the two versions.

 

I have placed the version you sent to me on atari-apps. Here's a demo video of it working:

 

Neon is an #Atari8bit HyperText browser, using the full features of the machine to present rich hypertext documents. Here it is being used over the N: device to access a set of documents over HTTPS via #FujiNet

 

[Gibstov]

9 minutes ago, tschak909 said:

I have placed the version you sent to me on atari-apps. Here's a demo video of it working:

 

Neon is an #Atari8bit HyperText browser, using the full features of the machine to present rich hypertext documents. Here it is being used over the N: device to access a set of documents over HTTPS via #FujiNet

 

Awesome!!

 

Still wondering about that Error 7...I think I need to rebuild all those DOCS with the current version of NEON.  And resend you those documents and the current version, so at least we can rule that out.

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Gibstov

[tschak909]

it's because it's looking for OVERVIEW.DOC instead of overview.doc. since the file is on a linux web server, the filename is case sensitive.

 

-Thom

 

[Gibstov]

6 minutes ago, tschak909 said:

it's because it's looking for OVERVIEW.DOC instead of overview.doc. since the file is on a linux web server, the filename is case sensitive.

 

-Thom

 

Oh...OK...that makes sense...so if we fix the filenames it should work ?

 

[massiverobot]

6 minutes ago, Gibstov said:

Oh...OK...that makes sense...so if we fix the filenames it should work ?

 

It's easy to rename them to all CAPS on the UNIX side...

 

@Gibstov Can you post a ZIP of all the DOC files?

 

 

[Gibstov]

27 minutes ago, massiverobot said:

It's easy to rename them to all CAPS on the UNIX side...

 

@Gibstov Can you post a ZIP of all the DOC files?

 

 

Sure...here you go.

 

 

FujiTest.zip

[massiverobot]

1 hour ago, Gibstov said:

Sure...here you go.

 

 

FujiTest.zip 22.87 kB · 4 downloads

I renamed them all to uppcase and put them on a server for people to test with.

 

http://fujinet.diller.org/ahf/sample/

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by massiverobot

[tschak909]

Yup, works a treat

[Gibstov]

1 hour ago, massiverobot said:

I renamed them all to uppcase and put them on a server for people to test with.

 

http://fujinet.diller.org/ahf/sample/

 

Awesome.  I've been browsing it ?

[+David_P]

5 hours ago, massiverobot said:

Who has source for these? Are they your apps? Will you release the source up to Github? that would be very helpful I'm sure.

 

I put together CardStax many, many years ago; all Atari BASIC with some canned ML routines.  Please feel free to rip it apart and improve.

[massiverobot]

Some discssion has been going on in the FujiNet Wiki, we have it working with all the sample DOCs that Gibstov has created.

 

If you have a FujiNet you can use this right now!

 

Load the neon.atr from: atari-apps.irata.online Networking/neon.atr

Boot without basic.

R> read

File spec should be (exactly with case matching):

N:HTTP://FUJINET.DILLER.ORG/ahf/sample/INDEX.DOC

 

When the Neon Index page loads, use a Joystick on port1 to navigate around to any availble links. Links that go to external docs will just load them for you via Fujinet.

 

Take a look around, just the DOCs that Gibstov has provided for Neon and the ADF/AHF format are very nicely done and show off what we can do with this app!

 

 

 

[+x=usr(1536)]

11 hours ago, massiverobot said:

I renamed them all to uppcase and put them on a server for people to test with.

 

http://fujinet.diller.org/ahf/sample/

Very cool!  Thank you!

 

One small request (and this is for anyone who may be doing the same): since we're sharing the .doc filetype with Office, please set the MIME type for that kind of document to something other than application/msword on the HTTPD side.  In fact, it would probably be a good idea to do this for any filetypes that are Atari-related.  May as well start while we're on the ground floor rather than try to sort it out later.

 

application/atari-neon looks to be available

[massiverobot]

I know we've been over this, but, I think and hope we learned w/ the move from .COM to .XEX - we should pick file types that are not used- esp. as the Atari begins to utilize the Web where there are a lot of other things already going on.

 

I propose:

 

.AHS - Atari Hypertext Source - the source files used to create the NEON AHD files

.AHD - Atari HyperText Document - the encoded file [R]ead by Neon

 

This way, there is no collision with any other format, and you can easily look at the files and see they are related some how. S and D are natural for 'source' and 'document.'

 

I realize it's all up to @Gibstov, but something to consider at this point...

 

-andy

[massiverobot]

3 hours ago, x=usr(1536) said:

 

application/atari-neon looks to be available

good suggestion for now, done:

 

GET /ahf/sample/INDEX.DOC HTTP/1.1
Host: fujinet.diller.org
User-Agent: curl/7.64.1
Accept: */*


HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Server: nginx/1.18.0 (Ubuntu)
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2021 13:42:08 GMT
Content-Type: application/atari-neon
Content-Length: 11996
Last-Modified: Thu, 05 Aug 2021 22:02:44 GMT
Connection: keep-alive
ETag: "610c6004-2edc"
Accept-Ranges: bytes

 

I also fixed HTTPS cert on my site, you can use HTTPS or HTTP and it should be fine now.

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by massiverobot

[Mr Robot]

These are the mime types I have set on my site

 

 

I know there are many others but these are the ones I see/use regularly, I update if I ever come across a new one a lot. 

I did consider putting all the file formats into their own apps atari-basic/atari-turbo-basic etc. but it didn't seem worth it given that nothing on my mac registers itself as the application for these types.

 

[Gibstov]

1 hour ago, massiverobot said:

I know we've been over this, but, I think and hope we learned w/ the move from .COM to .XEX - we should pick file types that are not used- esp. as the Atari begins to utilize the Web where there are a lot of other things already going on.

 

I propose:

 

.AHS - Atari Hypertext Source - the source files used to create the NEON AHD files

.AHD - Atari HyperText Document - the encoded file [R]ead by Neon

 

This way, there is no collision with any other format, and you can easily look at the files and see they are related some how. S and D are natural for 'source' and 'document.'

 

I realize it's all up to @Gibstov, but something to consider at this point...

 

-andy

Here are my thoughts, let's put a pin in this for now.  Unless it seems critical.

 

My push back with this change request is that this change will make all the documentation that I wrote, and all the example obsolete.  They should be modified to reflect this change.  I am not totally opposed to it, but I am not completely on board yet either.

 

 

[massiverobot]

4 minutes ago, Gibstov said:

  Unless it seems critical.

 

not critical ?

[+x=usr(1536)]

20 minutes ago, Gibstov said:

Here are my thoughts, let's put a pin in this for now.  Unless it seems critical.

 

My push back with this change request is that this change will make all the documentation that I wrote, and all the example obsolete.  They should be modified to reflect this change.  I am not totally opposed to it, but I am not completely on board yet either.

Sounds good!