bocianu Posted August 6, 2021 Share Posted August 6, 2021 The whole idea and execution is great. I've already started playing around with building the document and it's pretty convenient. But of course the idea of a new functionality came to my mind right away It would be great if from NEON browser level it would be possible to mount (into Fujnet drive slots) disk images or Atari executables available in the document being viewed. 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/322460-neon-demo-hypertext-adf-browser-for-atari/page/4/#findComment-4879392 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschak909 Posted August 6, 2021 Share Posted August 6, 2021 I had thought of this, and to stave off the browser getting huge, I propose literally being able to have machine code snippets that run in $0600 to send commands to do things like mount disks etc. -Thom 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/322460-neon-demo-hypertext-adf-browser-for-atari/page/4/#findComment-4879398 Share on other sites More sharing options...
massiverobot Posted August 6, 2021 Share Posted August 6, 2021 5 minutes ago, tschak909 said: I had thought of this, and to stave off the browser getting huge, I propose literally being able to have machine code snippets that run in $0600 to send commands to do things like mount disks etc. ah ok, I didn't realize that your comment about ML snippets would be use for FujiNet control! The ability to control host and drive slots would be amazing, it would be like a mini-config that you could use for all sort of things to enhance the FN experience. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/322460-neon-demo-hypertext-adf-browser-for-atari/page/4/#findComment-4879406 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschak909 Posted August 6, 2021 Share Posted August 6, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, massiverobot said: ah ok, I didn't realize that your comment about ML snippets would be use for FujiNet control! The ability to control host and drive slots would be amazing, it would be like a mini-config that you could use for all sort of things to enhance the FN experience. just for whatever could be needed, including fujinet control. I know some of you might think "OMG! THINK OF THE MALICIOUS CONTROL!" True, you could, but it's an 8-bit machine. and we're already doing DLI's. that ship has sailed. -Thom Edited August 6, 2021 by tschak909 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/322460-neon-demo-hypertext-adf-browser-for-atari/page/4/#findComment-4879419 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibstov Posted August 6, 2021 Author Share Posted August 6, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, tschak909 said: just for whatever could be needed, including fujinet control. I know some of you might think "OMG! THINK OF THE MALICIOUS CONTROL!" True, you could, but it's an 8-bit machine. and we're already doing DLI's. that ship has sailed. -Thom In the ADF compiler, I don't allow you to run pure code, I thought about it and still on the fence, but it is designed to prevent running arbitrary code. Yes you can create your own DLI. But you can only modify the values in memory that correspond to the hardware attributes. It writes the DLI for you. Also you can only use the :CALL command with #IDs that were defined with the :CODE command. (So you couldn't for instance create your own DLI with the :DATA statement) However this only goes so far, as there aren't such checks in the compiled DOC file. So you could write your own compiler, and put malicious code in there and NEON would run it. The security stuff is kind of legacy as originally the ADF was compiled and directly shown, instead of being saved as a DOC file. Maybe we could do some hybrid, like a plugin model? Edited August 6, 2021 by Gibstov 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/322460-neon-demo-hypertext-adf-browser-for-atari/page/4/#findComment-4879438 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschak909 Posted August 6, 2021 Share Posted August 6, 2021 the research scientist in me says "let's try it." we're still early enough that we can experiment and try to find the best approach. -Thom 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/322460-neon-demo-hypertext-adf-browser-for-atari/page/4/#findComment-4879440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibstov Posted August 6, 2021 Author Share Posted August 6, 2021 18 minutes ago, tschak909 said: the research scientist in me says "let's try it." we're still early enough that we can experiment and try to find the best approach. -Thom I'm definitely considering it. Some of the Pros is see: - Added functionality, like being able to mount Fuji drive. Plus a bunch more. - Saving in memory that could be used increasing number of IDs Some of the Cons is see: - Malicious code, viruses - Since this is acting like a web browser, each DOC needs to clean up after itself and not leave lingering changes, that could effect the environment of future DOCs. (We need to figure out how to clean up after it, but if it is running arbitrary code then ...) 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/322460-neon-demo-hypertext-adf-browser-for-atari/page/4/#findComment-4879461 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted August 6, 2021 Share Posted August 6, 2021 22 hours ago, massiverobot said: Who has source for these? Are they your apps? Will you release the source up to Github? that would be very helpful I'm sure. None of these are my apps, sorry, I am not a programmer. I only have the disks (images) that I uploaded here, no sources. Comrun and Hyper-it are both by @billkendrick who is also active here (and Comrun is TB XL, so the source is the TB XL listing). Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/322460-neon-demo-hypertext-adf-browser-for-atari/page/4/#findComment-4879536 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschak909 Posted August 6, 2021 Share Posted August 6, 2021 Sorry, should have been more specific, let's try everything, including the plugin approach. -Thom 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/322460-neon-demo-hypertext-adf-browser-for-atari/page/4/#findComment-4879539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibstov Posted August 9, 2021 Author Share Posted August 9, 2021 I have published the source code for the current version of Neon on GitHub https://github.com/Gibstov/Neon/ 10 3 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/322460-neon-demo-hypertext-adf-browser-for-atari/page/4/#findComment-4881505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
massiverobot Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 Here is a formatted version of Gibstov's documentation with an amazing example from fujinet.pl. Neon_Programmers_Reference_v1c.pdf 3 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/322460-neon-demo-hypertext-adf-browser-for-atari/page/4/#findComment-4886239 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocianu Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 neon site on fujinet.pl is not finished yet visit it in couple of days 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/322460-neon-demo-hypertext-adf-browser-for-atari/page/4/#findComment-4886264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
massiverobot Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 9 hours ago, bocianu said: neon site on fujinet.pl is not finished yet visit it in couple of days ... an amazing example that will be ready in a few days! Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/322460-neon-demo-hypertext-adf-browser-for-atari/page/4/#findComment-4886572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tschak909 Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 On 8/15/2021 at 11:49 AM, bocianu said: neon site on fujinet.pl is not finished yet visit it in couple of days been a couple of days... Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/322460-neon-demo-hypertext-adf-browser-for-atari/page/4/#findComment-4892500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocianu Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 3 hours ago, tschak909 said: been a couple of days... not enough VCS has been tortured the last few days. But I will get back to neon for sure Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/322460-neon-demo-hypertext-adf-browser-for-atari/page/4/#findComment-4892615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted September 5, 2021 Share Posted September 5, 2021 On 8/5/2021 at 12:35 PM, massiverobot said: Yes, but it involves the TK-2 https://ataribits.weebly.com/tk-ii.html Install TK-ii on your 800, use the Mapped HELP key on your PS/2 keyboard (which is F1). That is my first thought on how to handle it. Search for my modded ROM that makes ctrl-shift ? the HELP key. It's only a 6 byte patch in the OS IIRC. I mean the XL/XE OS on 800 Incognito, BTW. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/322460-neon-demo-hypertext-adf-browser-for-atari/page/4/#findComment-4900210 Share on other sites More sharing options...
billkendrick Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 (edited) On 8/5/2021 at 12:34 PM, CharlieChaplin said: Maybe some of these old A8 programs (namely Comrun, Cardstax, Hyper-It) are good for inspiration of your current project. And if not, no problem... Ooh, a couple of embarrassing blasts from the past for me. ;D Edited October 18, 2021 by billkendrick 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/322460-neon-demo-hypertext-adf-browser-for-atari/page/4/#findComment-4926716 Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 bumpy bump 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/322460-neon-demo-hypertext-adf-browser-for-atari/page/4/#findComment-4950310 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibstov Posted November 20, 2021 Author Share Posted November 20, 2021 16 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said: bumpy bump Sorry I have updated Neon for awhile. I've taken a break from it for a little while, but with the Holidays approaching, I will have more time to work on it. I did separate the Browser (Read) from the Compiler (Make), so the reader is much smaller now. I have some clean up stuff I still need to do before posting it. I also did convert the Compiler (Make) to C#, so it could run on a webserver. I shared it on Discord but haven't posted it here yet. I really need to covert Make so it compiles in GCC or some modern C compiler, so you won't have to rely on the huge .NET framework. If people think the .NET version of Make would be useful, I'll try to upload it sometime this week. 5 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/322460-neon-demo-hypertext-adf-browser-for-atari/page/4/#findComment-4950779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibstov Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share Posted January 11, 2022 I rewrote the Neon compiler, Make, in C#. If anyone is interested they can find the source code and the executable on GitHub. https://github.com/Gibstov/Neon-Make 5 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/322460-neon-demo-hypertext-adf-browser-for-atari/page/4/#findComment-4982739 Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarixle Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 Would be nice to have direct access to compiled PHP output for up-to-date contents. At the moment, my Fujinet crashes whenever I try to access N:HTTP://SOMETHING ... Btw I also am working on a Hypertext-Thing: multi-pages, editor=viewer, full DLI color change of background and font, but no graphics (exept user defined fonts - which is just planned for the future). No compilation needed, but it is a binary format (DOC to (screen)Memory), so harder to create by a PHP script or so ... Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/322460-neon-demo-hypertext-adf-browser-for-atari/page/4/#findComment-4982977 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibstov Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share Posted January 12, 2022 5 hours ago, atarixle said: Would be nice to have direct access to compiled PHP output for up-to-date contents. At the moment, my Fujinet crashes whenever I try to access N:HTTP://SOMETHING ... Btw I also am working on a Hypertext-Thing: multi-pages, editor=viewer, full DLI color change of background and font, but no graphics (exept user defined fonts - which is just planned for the future). No compilation needed, but it is a binary format (DOC to (screen)Memory), so harder to create by a PHP script or so ... Just curious if you have the N Device Handler installed...when it crashes? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/322460-neon-demo-hypertext-adf-browser-for-atari/page/4/#findComment-4983060 Share on other sites More sharing options...
massiverobot Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 8 hours ago, atarixle said: Would be nice to have direct access to compiled PHP output for up-to-date contents. At the moment, my Fujinet crashes whenever I try to access N:HTTP://SOMETHING ... Btw I also am working on a Hypertext-Thing: multi-pages, editor=viewer, full DLI color change of background and font, but no graphics (exept user defined fonts - which is just planned for the future). No compilation needed, but it is a binary format (DOC to (screen)Memory), so harder to create by a PHP script or so ... This has already been done by the guys in Poland. N:http://retrokorner.pl/INDEX.AHD they have some amazing stuff from neon. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/322460-neon-demo-hypertext-adf-browser-for-atari/page/4/#findComment-4983145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
massiverobot Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 I forked neon into FujiNet repo, just to add some docs. I'm collecting comments from the web and discord and putting them here: https://github.com/FujiNetWIFI/Neon-Make/wiki People are free to help and edit add. The wiki is open and can be edited by anyone that has a GH account. Enjoy. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/322460-neon-demo-hypertext-adf-browser-for-atari/page/4/#findComment-4983148 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobracon Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 Has anyone else created any pages with this yet? I visited the fujinet.pl neon page, looks amazing! 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/322460-neon-demo-hypertext-adf-browser-for-atari/page/4/#findComment-5037443 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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