Why a new input protocol?

[leech]

So the gamepad and joystick for the VCS have a Xbox input paring mode so you can hook it up to a PC.  My question is... why didn't they just use that paring mode to begin with and make it easier on themselves?  At this point there are only a few different control input methods, and while Linux detects the Atari one just fine, as it's a USB-HID device, it's not 100% sure what to do with some of it. 

 

Just seems weird to me.

[+Neon Wraith]

Microsoft has some sort of patent or restriction on the use of their proprietary controller technology and will not allow anyone else to use their protocols.  That is why you won't see any third party wireless controllers for Xbox.  The third party maker would need to license the rights from Microsoft for $$$$$$$.

[Matt_B]

That might be true for the Xbox. So far as PCs go though, XInput is an open standard that anyone can implement and that's what most wireless controllers use.

 

The problem is more likely to be that the XInput feature set is quite limiting. Microsoft didn't see fit to add anything that Xbox controllers don't have to it, so implementing things like the LED ring and the rotating stick in it might require some bodging.

 

You see the same with a lot of the more innovative PC controllers. They'll have an XInput mode for maximum compatibility with games, but use a different protocol - often just the older DirectInput one - to enable all their features.

[leech]

1 hour ago, Matt_B said:

That might be true for the Xbox. So far as PCs go though, XInput is an open standard that anyone can implement and that's what most wireless controllers use.

 

The problem is more likely to be that the XInput feature set is quite limiting. Microsoft didn't see fit to add anything that Xbox controllers don't have to it, so implementing things like the LED ring and the rotating stick in it might require some bodging.

 

You see the same with a lot of the more innovative PC controllers. They'll have an XInput mode for maximum compatibility with games, but use a different protocol - often just the older DirectInput one - to enable all their features.

This makes more sense.  Yeah XInput is what I'm referring to when they support 'xbox functions'.  Still wish more people would utilize the Steam API and they'd open that.  This way whatever controller you plug in, the game prompts will actually match what is on the button layout, instead of you being forced to see Xbox button labels when using a PS# controller...

[justclaws]

15 hours ago, leech said:

So the gamepad and joystick for the VCS have a Xbox input paring mode so you can hook it up to a PC.  My question is... why didn't they just use that paring mode to begin with and make it easier on themselves?  At this point there are only a few different control input methods, and while Linux detects the Atari one just fine, as it's a USB-HID device, it's not 100% sure what to do with some of it. 

 

Just seems weird to me.

As JoeAtari wrote, indeed the Xbox controller inputs via Bluetooth are patented, proprietary to Microsoft.
The Xinput controls are supported already by the O/S as is visible by controller testers run from Google chrome.

Indeed, as Matt says, they are limited, and they do not support all functions, and so this is also visible that not
all the controller functions are available to that mode, and the analogue triggers can be detected as binary, etc..

I heard in a private conversation with a developer that Atari intends further development via the O/S for the
controller situations, to make it easier, with remapping of control inputs, and more options on their roadmap.
This would then make it easier for game developers, some Linux tools/libraries are "in-flux" regarding use of
controllers, so I speculate that Atari wants to ensure they don't introduce any side-effects via the road-map.

I previously posted in the controller discussion how amazing it is that (just in Windows 10, for example) the
situation over controllers is so difficult. There are numerous controllers, and only Xbox controllers supported
100%, but this is not only Microsoft. The Facebook Oculus controller support is similar, very patchy, Android
the same. At least Atari planned to support 3rd-party controllers, and that controller support should grow.

[leech]

16 hours ago, justclaws said:

As JoeAtari wrote, indeed the Xbox controller inputs via Bluetooth are patented, proprietary to Microsoft.
The Xinput controls are supported already by the O/S as is visible by controller testers run from Google chrome.

Indeed, as Matt says, they are limited, and they do not support all functions, and so this is also visible that not
all the controller functions are available to that mode, and the analogue triggers can be detected as binary, etc..

I heard in a private conversation with a developer that Atari intends further development via the O/S for the
controller situations, to make it easier, with remapping of control inputs, and more options on their roadmap.
This would then make it easier for game developers, some Linux tools/libraries are "in-flux" regarding use of
controllers, so I speculate that Atari wants to ensure they don't introduce any side-effects via the road-map.

I previously posted in the controller discussion how amazing it is that (just in Windows 10, for example) the
situation over controllers is so difficult. There are numerous controllers, and only Xbox controllers supported
100%, but this is not only Microsoft. The Facebook Oculus controller support is similar, very patchy, Android
the same. At least Atari planned to support 3rd-party controllers, and that controller support should grow.

Linux support for controllers is far better than the situation under Windows, which has always been about making the Xbox controllers the only supported ones.  For example to get any of the playstatiin controllers to work, you would have to download an ad-laden garbage program to use... no official controller support from Sony. 

The exception is for some programmable controllers, like the Thrustmaster Warthog, where Thrustmaster only provides Windows software for scripting out all the control mappings you can do with the monster that it is.  Raw support for the controller(s) is fine though.

The Atari developers are probably talking about SDL2, as that handles most of the input, outside of what the kernel interprets.