Was not releasing with CD at launch the biggest mistake Atari made with the Jaguar?

[bluejay]

35 minutes ago, ataritiger said:

In my mind the 3do and apple pippen flopped harder than jaguar, both ? systems

What is this universe that you live in where the Jaguar was more successful than the 3DO? Can you take me there for a tour? Man, imagine how advanced their technology would be!

Edited August 3, 2021 by bluejay

[ataritiger]

Well I feel atari more legit than Panasonic and jaguar has legit 20 good games while 3do has what 2 road rash and ssf2t and there was only 1 variant of jaguar not 5 and apple was big before almost bankrupt so 1996 apple pippen was oooffff

[ataritiger]

20 minutes ago, bluejay said:

Can you reword this so we can understand? We would hate so much to miss anything that you spew out of your fingertips through your keyboard into this forum. They are so entertaining!

How did you not understand that? If I release a fpga mini it needs come with multi cart of games. No fpga system released with built in games so far. Get it? Mega sg no built in games but can use old carts. I dont want jag mini use old carts sd ok but not old carts or need it come with everdrive

Edited August 3, 2021 by ataritiger

[+madman]

9 minutes ago, ataritiger said:

How did you not understand that? If I release a fpga mini it needs come with multi cart of games. No fpga system released with built in games so far. Get it? Mega sg no built in games but can use old carts. I dont want jag mini use old carts sd ok but not old carts or need it come with everdrive

You realize there's nothing inherent to FPGA systems that precludes them from having built-in games, correct? You are breaking new ground here with your Jag Mini that will certainly 100% be released, why not go all out?

[Bill Loguidice]

1 hour ago, ataritiger said:

All I did was take a suggestion on it. But fgpa would require a multi cart to play games like everdrive. No fgpa console so far either tg16, nes or genesis has 20 built in games.

One has nothing to do with the other. Some FPGA-based systems do have licensed games built-in. One of the reasons why it's generally avoided is the excessive cost for licensing that would make an already expensive product even more expensive. Software emulation is still less expensive to pull off, which is why the minis all use it. You're basically more than doubling your costs with FPGA, while not necessarily gaining any practical advantages to justify the extra expense. I'm sure you know this all already, though.

 

Edited August 3, 2021 by Bill Loguidice

[newtmonkey]

Both the Super NT and Mega SG do, in fact, have builtin games.

 

[Edit] Beat to the punch by Bill!

Edited August 3, 2021 by newtmonkey

[ataritiger]

4 minutes ago, newtmonkey said:

Both the Super NT and Mega SG do, in fact, have builtin games.

 

[Edit] Beat to the punch by Bill!

Really name the 20 they have built in. But that is ? but yes fpga more expensive but its better. Soft emu has bugs, lags , in fact no jaguar emu I have is near perfect but kega gets sega right mostly and etc but jag and saturn emu suck but saturn getting much better. Better than jag. It just seems you guys don't want me pay guy. No answer in 10 pages but negative comments ohhhh yall got that in droves

[Bill Loguidice]

29 minutes ago, ataritiger said:

Well I feel atari more legit than Panasonic and jaguar has legit 20 good games while 3do has what 2 road rash and ssf2t and there was only 1 variant of jaguar not 5 and apple was big before almost bankrupt so 1996 apple pippen was oooffff

The 3DO has 5 times the number of games in its original library as the Jaguar and some true classics. You should give them a try some time as it's a great system. You might be surprised what it has in its library. You're spot on with the Pippen, though. Definitely very few games worth checking out on there. 

 

Although few games really push the system, the Jaguar of course has a huge advantage over most post-16-bit consoles in terms of homebrews. That's probably where it shines the most these days.

 

[ataritiger]

7 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

The 3DO has 5 times the number of games in its original library as the Jaguar and some true classics. You should give them a try some time as it's a great system. You might be surprised what it has in its library. You're spot on with the Pippen, though. Definitely very few games worth checking out on there. 

 

Although few games really push the system, the Jaguar of course has a huge advantage over most post-16-bit consoles in terms of homebrews. That's probably where it shines the most these days.

 

I like some pippen fps they had like 3 cool ones. I like jaguar and just want to give public a good taste of it instead of avgn ? version. 3do might have bigger library than jaguar or 32x but it's best 5 to 10 games aren't as good as 32x or jaguar imo. It's just road rash gex ssf2t etc i wouldn't mind putting bonus homebrew games on mini as sega lied and said Darrius wasn't homebrew but it was ...

Edited August 3, 2021 by ataritiger

[bluejay]

1 minute ago, ataritiger said:

I like some pippen fps they had like 3 cool ones. I like jaguar and just want to give public a good taste of it instead of avgn ? version. 3do might have bigger library than jaguar or 32x but it's best 5 to 10 games aren't as good as 32x or jaguar imo. It's just road rash gex ssf2t etc

If the only reason you want to do all this is because you think everyone takes the shit AVGN takes seriously, then, well, I dunno what to tell ya. 
 

3DO has its share of good games. Certainly more than the Jaguar. Seriously, what are the 20 games you want to put on your make believe mini Jaguar?

[Wilco]

Why is this still being discussed here, this is a thread about if the jaguar should have released with a CD drive, not if it needs a crappy FPGA clone system. 

[ataritiger]

7 minutes ago, bluejay said:

If the only reason you want to do all this is because you think everyone takes the shit AVGN takes seriously, then, well, I dunno what to tell ya. 
 

3DO has its share of good games. Certainly more than the Jaguar. Seriously, what are the 20 games you want to put on your make believe mini Jaguar?

Not only reason but I want give jaguar good legacy. A 1996 cd jag launch would've been horrible. So would a 1995 cart cd duo or 1994 cd jag. 1993 cart jag was perfect. It just needed support. 20 games 

01) avp

02) wolf 3d

03) doom

04) rayman

05) nba jam te

06) Iron soldier ? 

07) tempest2k

0 k ninja for the giggles

09) super burn out

10) revised fight4life

11) checkered flag better steer fix

12) atari carts

13) raiden

14)  cybermorph for lol

15) defender2000

16) zool 2

17) dragon Bruce lee

18) missle command

19) cannon fodder

20) brutal football

2600 game 7800 game 5200 game cd game homebew bonuses too

Some games can be changed

 

[bluejay]

23 minutes ago, ataritiger said:

Really name the 20 they have built in. But that is ? but yes fpga more expensive but its better. Soft emu has bugs, lags , in fact no jaguar emu I have is near perfect but kega gets sega right mostly and etc but jag and saturn emu suck but saturn getting much better. Better than jag. It just seems you guys don't want me pay guy. No answer in 10 pages but negative comments ohhhh yall got that in droves

They don't have 20 built in. No one said they have 20 built in.

 

I think people have been very reasonable with you, and any "negative comments" are perfectly justified as you clearly have no clue what you're saying. You have constantly tried to derail your own derailed topic, by bringing up people's salaries and resources that only proves that you are either unbelievably immature or you are full of shit. I'm rather convinced that it is the latter, as the only "evidence" you have provided is what could only be describes as a work of art by 4 year olds that got ahold of their parents' phones and are trying to figure out how to use the camera.

 

We aren't trying to discourage you. Please, please make that FPGA Jaguar console with HDMI. I can unironically guarantee you that nearly all of us here would love it. As explained countless of times over and over that it isn't an easy task, even if you had an army of skilled whatever people you need for this job, let alone a clueless individual such as you.

 

That being said, FPGA stands for Field Programmable Gate Array. To oversimplify things, it is a programmable chip that can be anything you want it to be. The FPGA systems in the market don't come with the "20 games built in" simply because the designers deemed it unnecessary to go through the hassle of, you know, aquiring the rights to rightfully distribute the games. Improperly designed FPGA will have the exact same flaws as improperly designed emulators, other than input lag.

 

Hopefully that helps you, you know, grasp the idea of FPGA. I bid you good luck on your quest to manufacturing and selling what you dream of.

[bluejay]

12 minutes ago, ataritiger said:

Not only reason but I want give jaguar good legacy. A 1996 cd jag launch would've been horrible. So would a 1995 cart cd duo or 1994 cd jag. 1993 cart jag was perfect. It just needed support. 20 games 

01) avp

02) wolf 3d

03) doom

04) rayman

05) nba jam te

06) Iron soldier ? 

07) tempest2k

0 k ninja for the giggles

09) super burn out

10) revised fight4life

11) checkered flag better steer fix

12) atari carts

13) raiden

14)  cybermorph for lol

15) defender2000

16) zool 2

17) dragon Bruce lee

18) missle command

19) cannon fodder

20) brutal football

2600 game 7800 game 5200 game cd game homebew bonuses too

Some games can be changed

 

Whatever it is you're making, it won't change what people think about the Jaguar. Those that love it will continue to love it, those that hate it will continue to hate it. Especially as you mentioned this will all be made in small quantities. It'll be expensive. Those that don't like the Jaguar won't buy it in the first place.

 

If you're going to have an FPGA 7800 and 5200 inside your FPGA Jaguar as well, why not just have proper game libraries and cartridge slots for all three systems and market it as the "ultimate Atari FPGA system"? Such would certainly have a bigger audience than if it were strictly a Jaguar mini, that is, as long as you can keep the cost reasonable.

Edited August 3, 2021 by bluejay

[rayik]

1 hour ago, CyranoJ said:

Someone who thinks a bloated 4 hours yawnfest remake of a total disaster was good.... no wonder this Jag thing seems easy

 

I can't wait till the homebrew author negotiations begin. I wonder how they'll go....

 

Do you know any homebrew authors?  I think negotiations will be easily done.

[ataritiger]

34 minutes ago, bluejay said:

They don't have 20 built in. No one said they have 20 built in.

 

I think people have been very reasonable with you, and any "negative comments" are perfectly justified as you clearly have no clue what you're saying. You have constantly tried to derail your own derailed topic, by bringing up people's salaries and resources that only proves that you are either unbelievably immature or you are full of shit. I'm rather convinced that it is the latter, as the only "evidence" you have provided is what could only be describes as a work of art by 4 year olds that got ahold of their parents' phones and are trying to figure out how to use the camera.

 

We aren't trying to discourage you. Please, please make that FPGA Jaguar console with HDMI. I can unironically guarantee you that nearly all of us here would love it. As explained countless of times over and over that it isn't an easy task, even if you had an army of skilled whatever people you need for this job, let alone a clueless individual such as you.

 

That being said, FPGA stands for Field Programmable Gate Array. To oversimplify things, it is a programmable chip that can be anything you want it to be. The FPGA systems in the market don't come with the "20 games built in" simply because the designers deemed it unnecessary to go through the hassle of, you know, aquiring the rights to rightfully distribute the games. Improperly designed FPGA will have the exact same flaws as improperly designed emulators, other than input lag.

 

Hopefully that helps you, you know, grasp the idea of FPGA. I bid you good luck on your quest to manufacturing and selling what you dream of.

Who said I didn't know what is was? I have a NT and evedrive pro with fpga sega cd section ? you showed your cards too early.

No games came built on my nt. I never saw mega sg with built in games again name them. Did my 20 + game list answer your question? Interesting huh how I always answer yall but you guys never answer me or throw dirt on me. Thats says it all. I just got a pm that did answer me. Stay tuned

Edited August 3, 2021 by ataritiger

[Bill Loguidice]

14 minutes ago, rayik said:

 

Do you know any homebrew authors?  I think negotiations will be easily done.

Realistically, assuming one can afford the premium cost of all of the licenses from Atari, which includes the Atari and Jaguar names and maybe the half dozen Jaguar games they still have rights to, if one wanted to hit 20 as the magic number, you're probably looking at roughly 14 homebrew games. Are there even 14 ORIGINAL homebrew games worth including that anyone would find of interest? 

[bluejay]

2 minutes ago, ataritiger said:

Who said I didn't know what is was? I have a NT and evedrive pro with fpga sega cd section ? you showed your cards too early.

Owning an "NT" doesn't mean you understand the concept of FPGA, as you clearly displayed yourself when you said, "How did you not understand that? If I release a fpga mini it needs come with multi cart of games."

[+Stephen]

One thing is for sure - either ataritiger's age or IQ (or both) are in the single digits.

[Leeroy ST]

17 hours ago, Agent X said:

 

Right, and we saw that the strategy of stressing the system and bogging down the games' performance didn't work.

 

That strategy certainly didn't produce better playing games, but I suppose Atari hoped that having pretty screen shots for ads and magazine previews would produce better selling games. In the end, those games neither played nor sold particularly well.

 

There were still some big-name 2D games that were selling. Atari fought to license Mortal Kombat 3, and they did. However, the PlayStation version of MK3 came out in late 1995, and Sony secured an exclusive time window for 32-bit/64-bit consoles. This meant that no other 32-bit/64-bit console could have MK3 for a certain length of time (6 to 12 months). The PlayStation version was great, but even if the Jaguar somehow managed to get a superior version 6-12 months later, it wouldn't have mattered by that time. The Jaguar really needed that game in late 1995 (alongside PS1, SNES, and Genesis), not 1996.

 

Even the 3DO version of Super Street Fighter II Turbo did reasonably well. I believe that was one of the best selling games on that system. If the Jaguar had a comparable version of the game around the same time (and not a year later), then it probably would have done well there, too. Unfortunately, Atari couldn't sign Capcom on as a developer.

 

On the bright side, the Jaguar did get an excellent version of NBA Jam Tournament Edition. It came out about four months later than PlayStation and Saturn, so it had no impact in moving the needle for Jaguar sales. At least it was a moral victory for the Jaguar, and a highlight for the few loyal Jaguar players remaining at that time.

 

 

There were a lot of 3D fighting games that flopped, because the market for that type of game got saturated very quickly. Even Sega struggled to sell 3D fighting games on the Saturn that didn't have "Virtua" in the name, and some of those games were legitimately great.

 

That's why I said initially where even Toshinden fooled people at first and had high sales of over a million copies.

 

1995 was the time for a 3D fighter or early 96 just for the initial novelty. Bonus if you had Content like Tekken, one of the reasons why it was the most successful.

 

It's one of the reasons why 3D fighters didn't do that well on N64, it came out too late. By 99 DC was out and the new next gen 3D novelty for fighters started. So outside Tekken and MK fighters were flopping up and down in the older consoles. Or appealed to a small niche.

 

But in the 94-early 96 window a decent game could work just on novelty.

 

Sadly the one 3D fighting game Jaguar had was incomplete and bad, worse than its direct competitors one 3D fighting game, Ballz.

 

As for Capcom giving Jaguar support, Jaguar got to many developers late. Capcom already had multiple deals signed already. 3DO had Capcom sign on a year before SSF2T was released. Same with other Japanese devs.

 

3DO also got a lot of western PC support, which gave jaguar few options. Several had near simultaneous releases on PSX too, completely passing over the Jaguar.

 

 

 

[pacman000]

2 hours ago, ataritiger said:

In my mind the 3do and apple pippen flopped harder than jaguar, both ? systems

I’d say the 3DO did better than the Jag, but I agree about the Pippin.

 

(Looks like I’m late to the party. :P)

Edited August 3, 2021 by pacman000

[Leeroy ST]

1 hour ago, ataritiger said:

I like some pippen fps they had like 3 cool ones. I like jaguar and just want to give public a good taste of it instead of avgn ? version. 3do might have bigger library than jaguar or 32x but it's best 5 to 10 games aren't as good as 32x or jaguar imo. It's just road rash gex ssf2t etc i wouldn't mind putting bonus homebrew games on mini as sega lied and said Darrius wasn't homebrew but it was ...

I seemed to have missed this branch off conversation.

 

The first problem with your idea is AVGN isn't the only misinformation spreading Youtuber, the Jaguar is arguably the most attacked console on YouTube for hits. You have an uphill battle from the start.

 

Also I'm not sure you know what FPGA is.

 

2 hours ago, bluejay said:

What is this universe that you live in where the Jaguar was more successful than the 3DO? Can you take me there for a tour? Man, imagine how advanced their technology would be!

This also hasld me staring at the screen for a good few minutes trying to figure out how anybody could say 3DO flipped harder than the Jaguar.

 

2 hours ago, ataritiger said:

Well I feel atari more legit than Panasonic and jaguar has legit 20 good games while 3do has what 2 road rash and ssf2t and there was only 1 variant of jaguar not 5 and apple was big before almost bankrupt so 1996 apple pippen was oooffff

Good thing 3DO had only 4 variants instead of 5 then. One a Japan exclusive. With a 350 plus game library and 2-3 million consoles sold.

 

But Panasonic not legit so it doesn't matter I guess. You dont actually explain HOW it's not legit, but ok. Also Sanyo and LG made the other ones, are they legit?

 

[ataritiger]

39 minutes ago, bluejay said:

Owning an "NT" doesn't mean you understand the concept of FPGA, as you clearly displayed yourself when you said, "How did you not understand that? If I release a fpga mini it needs come with multi cart of games."

You insult me then call me immature. You assume I never saw this  

 @ 30:03 and don't know its hardware replica even though I own devices (which never came with built in games oh NAME THEM) like everdrive pro which has fpga sega cd section lol oh here another picture too btw. Stop assuming you know what they say about that

[ataritiger]

9 minutes ago, Leeroy ST said:

I seemed to have missed this branch off conversation.

 

The first problem with your idea is AVGN isn't the only misinformation spreading Youtuber, the Jaguar is arguably the most attacked console on YouTube for hits. You have an uphill battle from the start.

 

Also I'm not sure you know what FPGA is.

 

This also hasld me staring at the screen for a good few minutes trying to figure out how anybody could say 3DO flipped harder than the Jaguar.

 

Good thing 3DO had only 4 variants instead of 5 then. One a Japan exclusive. With a 350 plus game library and 2-3 million consoles sold.

 

But Panasonic not legit so it doesn't matter I guess. You dont actually explain HOW it's not legit, but ok. Also Sanyo and LG made the other ones, are they legit?

 

What the heck is wrong with you people? Read my post above I have hardware recreation products ! Wow. I learned about it a while ago on my life in gaming they have like 5 videos on subject. 

[Leeroy ST]

Just now, ataritiger said:

What the heck is wrong with you people? Read my post above I have hardware recreation products ! Wow. I learned about it a while ago on my life in gaming they have like 5 videos on subject. 

This quote doesn't even address 99% of the post you quoted.