Was not releasing with CD at launch the biggest mistake Atari made with the Jaguar?

[RetroSonicHero]

I don't think the JagCD would've been a large factor in the system's success. Like others have mentioned, it would've gone against the entire design philosophy of the Jaguar to begin with if that's what they relied on.

 

 

In my opinion, Atari's biggest mistake(s) were down to prioritization. For one, if you look at their marketing strategies, all they really had going for them were their "oooooooo 64 bit" commercials. And that really wasn't adequate enough to be compelling to consumers. Sure, all the kids in the 90s knew about the bit wars, but that doesn't mean a whole lot when the majority didn't know what they were to begin with. It was impressive for the time, but it didn't really mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things.

 

The system also wasn't well equipped for the future as well. They were still rocking the 68000, for one. And while that'd been proven to be a more than competent microprocessor, it just wasn't up to snuff compared to what the competition would later do. Hell, the 3DO had been out for a month already, and had equally, if not, more impressive specs. Thanks to its 32-bit RISC CPU among other things. That was already bad enough, but the PS1 was also on the horizon. Which was the final nail in the coffin. If Atari did a couple of things differently, perhaps the system could've stood a chance. The hardware just wasn't equipped for future proofing and ensuring that 3rd party developers would be willing to understand how to program for it optimally and release games for many years to come. Keep in mind that Atari was still carrying baggage because of the unsuccessful 5200, 7800, and Lynx. I'm sure that put some 3rd parties off when considering if whether or not they should develop for the Jaguar.

 

In general, the higher ups of Atari also made some really questionable decisions. The example that comes to mind is "Fight for Life", the last game to be officially released for the console. Atari had promised the developer decent pay, but after a certain about of time, they just decided to stop paying him. His response was to send them an unfinished build of the game, and that's the version that was officially released. We didn't see the final product until many years later where the developer shared it with us online.

 

 

It's decisions like this that really make you wonder what was going through the higher up's heads. 

 

Edited August 3, 2021 by RetroSonicHero

[+thanatos]

I thought the FPGA was gals like this:

[ataritiger]

39 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

So to figure out what's changed now, you're saying all you're talking about is you plan on producing and selling 1,000 Jaguar cases to start and selling them here on AtariAge? Is that correct? I know my own Jaguar already has its original housing as I would imagine most others, so outside of those few who want an alternative color or something, do you hope there's interest in these cases as Rasberry Pi housings, for example? (There isn't.)

Or are you saying that step 1 is to produce 1,000 cases, then step 2a is to do the R&D and production on the hardware and software, and step 2b is to simultaneously work on getting the nearly impossible licenses, with step 3 = selling a Jaguar Mini? I'm just trying to sort through this plan...

Basically yes.

1) Shells either smaller or his inventory, 

 

2) motherboards pcb for emu or fpga,

 

3) licenses,

 

4) 6 button controller with just 6 keypads not 99 lol jk

 

5) then release 1000 here.

 

6) Ill send youtube review units. Send online magizine etc. Most money will go to Atari logo jaguar logo etc honestly.

 

7) Im not looking to profit. At all.

 

But $89 emu mini or $199 fpga "analogue jg" sounds fair to buyers?

 

999 units batch one.

 

9) Homebrewers would be easy yes. Legacy titles? But thing is 20 games i luv. But if somebody thinks burnout is bad compare to power drive ok. About my plastics facility, I typed it out pages ago with no typos there either Google it.

Edited August 3, 2021 by ataritiger

[OldSchoolRetroGamer]

THIS THREAD BE LIKE: 

 

[Bill Loguidice]

2 minutes ago, ataritiger said:

Basically yes. 1) Shells either smaller or his inventory, motherboards pcb for emu or fpga, licenses, 6 button controller with just 6 keypads not 99 lol jk then release 1000 here. Ill send youtube review units. Send online magizine etc. Most money will go to Atari logo jaguar logo etc honestly. Im not looking to profit. At all. But $89 emu mini or $199 fpga "analogue jg" sounds fair to buyers? Homebrewers would be easy yes. Legacy titles? But thing is 20 games i luv. But if somebidy thinks burnout is bad compare to power drive ok. About my plastics facility, I typed it out pages ago with no typos there either Google it.

Can you try explaining again? Let's start with who do you plan on selling 1,000 empty Jaguar shells to since that's your step 1?

[ataritiger]

25 minutes ago, RetroSonicHero said:

I don't think the JagCD would've been a large factor in the system's 

I agree with all you said. To me, Atari and Sega are mirrors in a way for 10 years, alot bad decisions, bad taste in mouth after flops, not much 3rd party on last system of falling off cliff company yet both those consoles have mythology

25 minutes ago, RetroSonicHero said:

 

In general, the higher ups of Atari also made some really questionable decisions. The example that comes to mind is "Fight for Life", the last game to be officially released for the console. Atari had promised the developer decent pay, but after a certain about of time, they just decided to stop paying him. His response was to send them an unfinished build of the game, and that's the version that was officially released. We didn't see the final product until many years later where the developer shared it with us online.

 

 

It's decisions like this that really make you wonder what was going through the higher up's heads. 

 

I want released that rom on my mini or jg

[ataritiger]

Just now, Bill Loguidice said:

Can you try explaining again? Let's start with who do you plan on selling 1,000 empty Jaguar shells to since that's your step 1?

Selling it here to ? if they buy 999 ill do another batch. Like how harmony7800 concerto handled

[Bill Loguidice]

2 minutes ago, ataritiger said:

Selling it here to ? if they buy 999 ill do another batch. Like how harmony7800 concerto handled

So when you sell max 50 - 200 empty shells out of the 999 (!), what's your next step?

[RetroSonicHero]

2 minutes ago, ataritiger said:

I want released that rom on my mini or jg

That would be pretty cool. Sadly, I've looked at it again and I'm actually not sure if this build is actually real. What I do know is that there is one labeled "Fight for Life Beta", perhaps that's the one? I heard it has quite a few differences from what was released.

[ataritiger]

Just now, Bill Loguidice said:

So when you sell max 50 - 200 empty shells out of the 999 (!), what's your next step?

When I sell 500 to 600 I will re up for batch 2. I predicted 1000 can sell in a week or month. Only $100 to 200,000 which is nothing compared to 2 million dumped in. Thats ok

[ataritiger]

4 minutes ago, RetroSonicHero said:

That would be pretty cool. Sadly, I've looked at it again and I'm actually not sure if this build is actually real. What I do know is that there is one labeled "Fight for Life Beta", perhaps that's the one? I heard it has quite a few differences from what was released.

Please read post 127 or before we found many rom versions 

 

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/223416-fight-for-life-beta-or-commercial/page/6/#comments

 

"Mitch has 4 roms , 3.22 etcs beta a sept 7 e3 proto, a 2000 or 2005 beta and 2010 rom. Plus there a 1996 retail rom he linked. Also 2008 source code leak. So only one missing is 1994 vg mag reviewer rom. So whats doubled?"

Edited August 3, 2021 by ataritiger

[+cubanismo]

 

Edited August 3, 2021 by cubanismo
Replacing gif with youtube since the gif embedded poorly.

[Bill Loguidice]

4 minutes ago, ataritiger said:

When I sell 500 to 600 I will re up for batch 2. I predicted 1000 can sell in a week or month. Only $100 to 200,000 which is nothing compared to 2 million dumped in. Thats ok

Congratulations, you've just about exhausted me with not only having to parse through your wording, but also the extraordinary vagueness. You truly have a gift. So you're saying you're going to sell 500 - 600 EMPTY reproduction Jaguar shells and predict you can sell 1,000 EMPTY reproduction Jaguar shells in 1 - 4 weeks? 

[+cubanismo]

23 hours ago, Bill Loguidice said:

This will be my last comment on this,

?

[+cubanismo]

I mean, seriously, I'd still probably buy a full-size empty Jaguar shell or two in some cool color != the original. Maybe even three.

 

But have you tried to actually run virtual jaguar on a Rasberry Pi or other things that fit in even a full-size Jaguar shell? I have. It doesn't go well. Also, it doesn't run some of the games on your top 20 list a few pages back. So... FPGA or hire someone to do a lot of work (I mean, probably a lot of work) on the emulator?

 

If you want to do a pre-order list for shells (add me on, especially if they're translucent purple), make those (It's probably not going to be 1000), sell for a profit, and give all that profit to someone to work on the emulator or an FPGA core, that sounds awesome. If you want to try to turn that into some profitable product with games bundled in, well, I can go make more popcorn I guess.

[Bill Loguidice]

8 minutes ago, cubanismo said:

?

That was more in reference to trying to inject some reality into how the licensing will go for some of those titles, but to be fair, I also meant to ease back on the thread in general. It's just so detached from reality it's irresistible to me, unfortunately, and again, I like to work things through sometimes for my own edification.

[+cubanismo]

Yeah, no it's not fair. I just thought I'd point it out because I think many of us are saying the same thing to ourselves internally, and yet... I can't look away.

[+remowilliams]

So, let me get this straight.  This thread has gone from a completely ludicrous set of assumptions about the JagCD into Underpants Gnomes and Coleco Chameleon territory.

 

 

[ataritiger]

38 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

So you're saying you're going to sell 500 - 600 EMPTY reproduction Jaguar shells

 

and predict you can sell 1,000 EMPTY reproduction Jaguar shells in 1 - 4 weeks? 

No. 1000 finished units.

[Gummy Bear]

28 minutes ago, ataritiger said:

No. 1000 finished units.

Even better! ?

[+GoldLeader]

1 hour ago, RetroSonicHero said:

I don't think the JagCD would've been a large factor in the system's success. Like others have mentioned, it would've gone against the entire design philosophy of the Jaguar to begin with if that's what they relied on.

 

 

In my opinion, Atari's biggest mistake(s) were down to prioritization. For one, if you look at their marketing strategies, all they really had going for them were their "oooooooo 64 bit" commercials. And that really wasn't adequate enough to be compelling to consumers. Sure, all the kids in the 90s knew about the bit wars, but that doesn't mean a whole lot when the majority didn't know what they were to begin with. It was impressive for the time, but it didn't really mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things.

 

The system also wasn't well equipped for the future as well. They were still rocking the 68000, for one. And while that'd been proven to be a more than competent microprocessor, it just wasn't up to snuff compared to what the competition would later do. Hell, the 3DO had been out for a month already, and had equally, if not, more impressive specs. Thanks to its 32-bit RISC CPU among other things. That was already bad enough, but the PS1 was also on the horizon. Which was the final nail in the coffin. If Atari did a couple of things differently, perhaps the system could've stood a chance. The hardware just wasn't equipped for future proofing and ensuring that 3rd party developers would be willing to understand how to program for it optimally and release games for many years to come. Keep in mind that Atari was still carrying baggage because of the unsuccessful 5200, 7800, and Lynx. I'm sure that put some 3rd parties off when considering if whether or not they should develop for the Jaguar.

 

In general, the higher ups of Atari also made some really questionable decisions. The example that comes to mind is "Fight for Life", the last game to be officially released for the console. Atari had promised the developer decent pay, but after a certain about of time, they just decided to stop paying him. His response was to send them an unfinished build of the game, and that's the version that was officially released. We didn't see the final product until many years later where the developer shared it with us online.

 

 

It's decisions like this that really make you wonder what was going through the higher up's heads. 

 

 

I'm not sure what any of this has to do with the Jag Mini...

 

 

 

[BillLoguidice]

43 minutes ago, ataritiger said:

No. 1000 finished units.

Changing the plan again? You win. I give up. It's impossible to get a clear answer from you on anything. I have to agree with the others that at this point you're just trolling. Good job. If you can't even answer some simple questions, I don't know how you plan on doing anything else.

Edited August 3, 2021 by BillLoguidice
On a different computer that had an old account - oops

[Agent X]

1 hour ago, RetroSonicHero said:

I don't think the JagCD would've been a large factor in the system's success. Like others have mentioned, it would've gone against the entire design philosophy of the Jaguar to begin with if that's what they relied on.

 

If the Jaguar had an integrated CD drive at launch (1993), then you would have been looking at system with $400 to $500 price tag. And it still wouldn't have had enough games on the shelf.

 

Atari made the right decision by selling the system as a cartridge-based unit for $250, with the CD drive as an optional add-on. They were targeting a mass-market price, and they hit it.

 

2 hours ago, RetroSonicHero said:

In my opinion, Atari's biggest mistake(s) were down to prioritization. For one, if you look at their marketing strategies, all they really had going for them were their "oooooooo 64 bit" commercials. And that really wasn't adequate enough to be compelling to consumers. Sure, all the kids in the 90s knew about the bit wars, but that doesn't mean a whole lot when the majority didn't know what they were to begin with. It was impressive for the time, but it didn't really mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things.

 

This was another huge problem. They kept playing the "64-bit" card even after the release of Saturn and PlayStation. At that point (late 1995), their strategy should have simply been "we have an affordable console with a great range of games". Their ads should have promoted some of their best games, instead of harping so much on the "64-bit" factor.

 

Also, as you pointed out, Atari had some terrible dealings with developers, both internal and external. I've read some very revealing stories in recent years about how Atari (under the Tramiels) treated some of their developers. It's quite tragic, and explains much of why Atari had such a difficult time lining up quality developers for all of their game consoles during that period of their history.

 

[RetroSonicHero]

1 hour ago, ataritiger said:

Please read post 127 or before we found many rom versions 

 

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/223416-fight-for-life-beta-or-commercial/page/6/#comments

 

"Mitch has 4 roms , 3.22 etcs beta a sept 7 e3 proto, a 2000 or 2005 beta and 2010 rom. Plus there a 1996 retail rom he linked. Also 2008 source code leak. So only one missing is 1994 vg mag reviewer rom. So whats doubled?"

Alright, cool. I was having issues coming across this information so I'm glad we have many options for what build we want to play.

[roots.genoa]

5 hours ago, bluejay said:

you are either unbelievably immature or you are full of shit. I'm rather convinced that it is the latter