Was not releasing with CD at launch the biggest mistake Atari made with the Jaguar?

[Lostdragon]

1 hour ago, ataritiger said:

Ah ok thank you. 

Purely personal opinion, but i don't feel the technology was really there to be able to strongly distinguish between the 3 Seperate species in AVP. 

 

 

Ignoring Jane Whittaker's utter bullshit talk about having a Jaguar version of AVP where the Aliens could scale the walls and run across the ceiling, but had to be dropped due to lack of cartridge space, it wasn't until Rebellion's PC AVP that it really felt different not only fighting the Xenomorph, they weren't your standard FPS fodder, but also playing as the species. 

 

That fish eye lens effect was genius. 

 

 

Respect must also go for what Argonaut attempted on the Playstation with Alien Resurrection, utilising purposefully placed points on the environment which would allow the Xenomorphs to jump from the wall to the floor, from the floor to the ceiling and  in and out of water,it added a lot to the atmosphere.

 

 

I just couldn't see it being implemented well on the Jaguar, even though ir was something Atari had on the the AVP Jag CD wish list. 

[ataritiger]

Very good info thank you. Was avp avg fps 12 to 20 ?

[agradeneu]

1 hour ago, Lostdragon said:

Purely personal opinion, but i don't feel the technology was really there to be able to strongly distinguish between the 3 Seperate species in AVP. 

 

 

Ignoring Jane Whittaker's utter bullshit talk about having a Jaguar version of AVP where the Aliens could scale the walls and run across the ceiling, but had to be dropped due to lack of cartridge space, it wasn't until Rebellion's PC AVP that it really felt different not only fighting the Xenomorph, they weren't your standard FPS fodder, but also playing as the species. 

 

That fish eye lens effect was genius. 

 

 

Respect must also go for what Argonaut attempted on the Playstation with Alien Resurrection, utilising purposefully placed points on the environment which would allow the Xenomorphs to jump from the wall to the floor, from the floor to the ceiling and  in and out of water,it added a lot to the atmosphere.

 

 

I just couldn't see it being implemented well on the Jaguar, even though ir was something Atari had on the the AVP Jag CD wish list. 

Hm, the Predator is pretty distinguishable with his cloaking, heavy weapons and hitpoints like a tank.

I wish they would have made the aliens a bit more dangerous, they are too much like the cannon fodder of the game IMO.

The Aliens could be faster, with the ability to launch/leap at the player. The inclusion of the heavier Predaliens would have added to a better variety of monsters. 

For the AI , I dont like how the aliens line up behind a closed door. It looks a bit comical. 

The frame rate is acceptable in level 3, but somehow it slows down to a crawl in levels 2, 4 and 5. 

 

Curiously, the game runs better when playing the alien or predator story.

 

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by agradeneu

[LordKraken]

47 minutes ago, agradeneu said:

Curiously, the game runs better when playing the alien or predator story.

Because you need less aliens running around using supreme AI code?

[ataritiger]

If panther was done and can run games at 30fps and I heard cybermorph was a finished panther game then panther should have came out. Release doom wolf3d tempest2000 etc for panther then release a duo jaguar cart and cd based that could play panther games and put avp cd and have better games with music actual music lol and better game play and fps

[agradeneu]

15 minutes ago, ataritiger said:

If panther was done and can run games at 30fps and I heard cybermorph was a finished panther game then panther should have came out. Release doom wolf3d tempest2000 etc for panther then release a duo jaguar cart and cd based that could play panther games and put avp cd and have better games with music actual music lol and better game play and fps

What? Cybermorph was NOT a Panther game, because the Panther had no 3D hardware at all. No chance to run T2K or Doom on the Panther....

Whatever! Google it!

  

 

[agradeneu]

2 hours ago, LordKraken said:

Because you need less aliens running around using supreme AI code?

So AI routines for Predator and Marines were not coded by him?  

[ataritiger]

1 minute ago, agradeneu said:

What? Cybermorph was NOT a Panther game, because the Panther had no 3D hardware at all. No chance to run T2K or Doom on the Panther....

Whatever! Google it!

  

 

Actually in video I posted it states that. What is the Google obsession here btw?

[agradeneu]

1 minute ago, ataritiger said:

Actually in video I posted it states that. What is the Google obsession here btw?

The video is BS. Cybermorph was programmed for the Jaguar. John Mathieson confimed this. The ATD guys worked with him and gave feedback on the hardware.

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by agradeneu

[ataritiger]

1 minute ago, agradeneu said:

The video is BS. Cybermorph was programmed for the Jaguar.

Hmmm. Videos are articles state otherwise.

[agradeneu]

Just now, ataritiger said:

Hmmm. Videos are articles state otherwise.

"Planned", does not mean a single line was coded.... The Panther is a phantom everybody heard of, but noone could remember working on it.

But you should believe the developers and designers of the Jaguar. They all confirmed CM was developed form scratch  for the Jaguar, in close relationship with the hardware designer.

Let me look for a link....

 

[ataritiger]

13 minutes ago, agradeneu said:

"Planned", does not mean a single line was coded.... The Panther is a phantom everybody heard of, but noone could remember working on it.

But you should believe the developers and designers of the Jaguar. They all confirmed CM was developed form scratch  for the Jaguar, in close relationship with the hardware designer.

Let me look for a link....

 

Ok but the Panther was finished and going to release and 25 sources said cybermorph was started or finished on panther but works on jag like jag games work on the 2 jag2 prototypes.

 

Omg i ruined the Google joke by using duckduckgo let me use Google for you. Says it could do 3d and cybermorph ran on it on all the sites I checked.

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by ataritiger

[Editorb]

1 hour ago, ataritiger said:

Actually in video I posted it states that. What is the Google obsession here btw?

It's because some users frequently post queries for information that is easily googlerizable, as well as post erroneous information. Some users, for example, might ask about the frame rates in AvP or how GCC got its start rather than just finding out on their own nearly instantaneously. As the ancient proverbs state, googlerizing is your friend.

 

The Cybermorph origins are rather esoteric, but from what I can discern, the many sources that claim it was a Panther game are repeating incorrect information. Firsthand (or second, I reckon) information indicates it started life on the Jag.

[ataritiger]

9 minutes ago, Editorb said:

It's because some users frequently post queries for information that is easily googlerizable, as well as post erroneous information. Some users, for example, might ask about the frame rates in AvP or how GCC got its start rather than just finding out on their own nearly instantaneously. As the ancient proverbs state, googlerizing is your friend.

 

The Cybermorph origins are rather esoteric, but from what I can discern, the many sources that claim it was a Panther game are repeating incorrect information. Firsthand (or second, I reckon) information indicates it started life on the Jag.

Yet I answer questions here instead of saying to people "Google it" because we want to have a discussion, and might end up learning something else or deeper on subject. Or I'll google it or duckduckgo stuff for them. I dont cry about it. I can see most of yall dont like me, good. I'm direct. Most of you talk out the side of your neck and probably have crap lives which is why you post the way you do. Btw negate all the cybermorph on panther proof i provided. Where are these links to "top men" at atari or "experts" here saying it was only started made and finished on jag instead of ported from panther? I'm waiting.

Edited August 7, 2021 by ataritiger

[Editorb]

[Editorb]

13 minutes ago, ataritiger said:

Yet I answer questions here instead of saying to people "Google it" because we want to have a discussion, and might end up learning something else or deeper on subject. Or I'll google it or duckduckgo stuff for them. I dont cry about it. I can see most of yall dont like me, good. I'm direct. Most of you talk out the side of your neck and probably have crap lives which is why you post the way you do. Btw negate all the cybermorph on panther proof i provided. Where are these links to "top men" at atari or "experts" here saying it was only started made and finished on jag instead of ported from panther? I'm waiting.

 

I neither like nor dislike people I've never met. I will spare you effort of waiting as I lack time/interest/inclination to provide proof over such an inconsequential matter.

[ataritiger]

Fair enough, best response you gave so far.

 

But if you guys put as much time as being negative to me as to answering or negating things it'll be a better forum. Imagine me saying to guy asking if tempest2000 is better on jag or saturn "Google it".

 

Well I googled panther and cybermorph because that's the joke right me using Google or duckduckgo right, but not all correct answers are on search engine hence my panther cybermorph question and why I asked experts here the question about avp frame rate (8 to 22 was vague) and exact machine gcc rigged (some say ms pacman but pacman is a Namco ip and it was missle attack by atari), and I got a answer that wasn't Google it or clown emoji,  imagine that!

 

I learned alot and was cool talking to mature forum members instead of man boys filled with hate. 

 

Edit : Grammar ? Can you guys read my English now? 

Edited August 7, 2021 by ataritiger

[ataritiger]

1 hour ago, Editorb said:

Google and the duck

[Zerosquare]

1 hour ago, ataritiger said:

But if you guys put as much time as being negative to me as to answering or negating things it'll be a better forum.

It'd be an even better forum if you didn't post bullshit in the first place.

[+Stephen]

4 hours ago, ataritiger said:

If panther was done and can run games at 30fps and I heard cybermorph was a finished panther game then panther should have came out. Release doom wolf3d tempest2000 etc for panther then release a duo jaguar cart and cd based that could play panther games and put avp cd and have better games with music actual music lol and better game play and fps

Just put a 4th FPGA for Panther in your dream console, and problem solved.

[ataritiger]

1 hour ago, Zerosquare said:

It'd be an even better forum if you didn't post bullshit in the first place.

Like what? I specifically answered everything you guys asked. I get along with everybody but 5 haters lately. I wonder who those 5 are? I'll google it cuz i still gotta look up fpga right? Been here since 2015 and never had a problem until now. Maybe I hurt your guys feelings because many jaguar games lake property music and 3d fps above 13 ?.

Edited August 7, 2021 by ataritiger

[ataritiger]

13 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Just put a 4th FPGA for Panther in your dream console, and problem solved.

Might as well add it with guy making MiSteR jag fpga

[Zerosquare]

50 minutes ago, ataritiger said:

Like what?

Oh, I don't know...

 

[ataritiger]

8 minutes ago, Zerosquare said:

Oh, I don't know...

 

I didnt write that commentary "Madman" did. I wasn't sure of something, it doesn't say 100% fake it says ideas are posted there. Can't have a product without an idea. How does any of this negate cybermorph on panther? Like seriously yall can't debunk it "since its all fake or a lie"?

 

Edit : Guess yall dont know much about panther or cybermorph then. Maybe I'll rewrite that 13 times.

Edited August 8, 2021 by ataritiger

[Shaggy the Atarian]

4 hours ago, ataritiger said:

Ok but the Panther was finished and going to release and 25 sources said cybermorph was started or finished on panther but works on jag like jag games work on the 2 jag2 prototypes.

 

Omg i ruined the Google joke by using duckduckgo let me use Google for you. Says it could do 3d and cybermorph ran on it on all the sites I checked.

 

A lot of bad info about the Panther exists online due to a lot of assumptions or incorrect information being made public around '98 or so. In recent years, a lot of that has been corrected by those who actually worked on it, such as Leonard Tramiel. Not saying that everything in these images above is inaccurate, just saying you have to be careful about your sources. A lot of hearsay has promulgated about the Panther out there -  Even Curt Vendel said that some of his original quotes about the Panther that were on the Atari Museum website were completely wrong. He fixed those things when he got the right info though.

 

Here's Leonard on the Panther, from several posts on the Atari Museum FB page. This first one was a year ago, when responding to a thread that is similar to this one, which provides both insight on the Panther development and the Jag's:

 

 

Here's a comment on the much shared Panther case design, Oct. 6th, 2017. This indicates that no one should conclusively say what the Panther could do, since it was never finished:

 

Then later in the thread he address some things about the games:

 

Here he talks about Jeff Minter reportedly having one:

 

 

Another time, he addressed the Panther being a Flare-made system:

 

 

There's also this interview with Leonard where he echoes what he said about the chips and that it simply was canned in favor of the Jaguar. 

 

Either way, the best sources to rely one when doing research should be first-hand ones. Everything else should be treated with suspicion, not as though it were gospel.