Keatah Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 Which classic hardware is the most durable? By this I mean what hardware has the longest chance of lasting another 10, 20, or 30 more years. Or even longer? I've been pretty happy with my childhood Apple II stuff. The original stuff has lasted me decades with minimal cleaning and servicing. And again with my original 486 hardware. Aside from battery leakage problems and an IDE cable, it's been trouble-free as well. What are your longevity picks? And what problem areas of your current collection need attention? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glurk Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 My TRS-80 Model III I've recently restored is like a tank. The main problems were the floppy drives, and they are bound to fail eventually with any computer. Also, the Rifa caps in the PS, and they are also another known failure point in other systems. But the MB, Video board, FDC board, RS232, etc. (everything else) is all original and going strong. I'm not sure the same could be said for a TRS-80 Model I, which I do not own, but the Model III and IV and such are really solid darn machines, IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted August 24, 2021 Author Share Posted August 24, 2021 30 minutes ago, glurk said: Also, the Rifa caps in the PS, and they are also another known failure point in other systems. Lord Reefa! 30 minutes ago, glurk said: I'm not sure the same could be said for a TRS-80 Model I. Not sure, but I think the expansion connector is simple base metal. And contacts like so are really intermittent and need frequent deoxidation. I know the expansion chassis had issues there and had several revisions too. But I suppose once a working configuration was achieved, it would continue working for the ages. In fact any and all connectors in vintage hardware should be cleaned and treated nowadays. This includes switches, buttons, expansion cards, and especially chip sockets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fimbulvetr Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 Every last bit of my fairly extensive collection of ti99 hardware except for one cartridge works perfectly. None of my other vintage systems (Apple IIc, Macintosh, Tandy CoCo, TRS-80 Model 100s, Atari 800s, ZX Spectrums, various 80s and 90s PCs, etc) compare. I would put my money on the ti stuff outlasting everything else. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanooki Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 I'd say probably going to end up being some video game console from the 80s or earlier 90s. The less complex and less moving parts the better, stuff in those decades weren't built like cheap throwaway garbage but like a tank, even if it wasn't intended to be. I know I'm in the computing area, but there's just so many more points of failure there. Magnetic media plate(hdd) or floppies, drive motors, power supplies, fans, etc are more likely to have a problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted August 24, 2021 Author Share Posted August 24, 2021 Vintage chips (and other parts) were built in a time when manufacturing efficiency wasn't so aggressively pursued because the tooling and factory machinery couldn't trim things down too far. The traces in old chips are as wide as superhighways compared to the Hot-Wheels track widths of today. That's a lot of material to absorb shocks and vibrations and degradation from aging. Substantial. The VCS itself is a tank of a console. On hard drives. I've got a drive going on almost 40 years. It retains its data till today. Also have some from the very early 90's. Still quite functional. In fact, Leo (of Ask Leo) says that magnetic media with migration/refresh is the best way to preserve digital data. Definitely not CD-ROM or DVD or any optical form. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluejay Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 My PET feels indestructible, but has one achilles’ heel; the keyboard. Carbon contacts deteriorate and render the keyboard useless until you apply a new layer of carbon on top. Mine is currently in the process of dying like this; some keys are unresponsive. Planning on fixing it soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hwlngmad Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 TI-99/4As were built to military spec. I am pretty sure a few of those would be good candidates to last a couple of more decades. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hwlngmad Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 13 hours ago, fimbulvetr said: Every last bit of my fairly extensive collection of ti99 hardware except for one cartridge works perfectly. None of my other vintage systems (Apple IIc, Macintosh, Tandy CoCo, TRS-80 Model 100s, Atari 800s, ZX Spectrums, various 80s and 90s PCs, etc) compare. I would put my money on the ti stuff outlasting everything else. Indeed. As stated in my post, TI built the 99/4a above commercial grade. Definitely those should be able to continue to be useful for many years to come. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 12 hours ago, Keatah said: In fact, Leo (of Ask Leo) says that magnetic media with migration/refresh is the best way to preserve digital data. Definitely not CD-ROM or DVD or any optical form. I've got CD-ROMS that I burned 25 years ago that still work. That's better than can be said from many of my floppies from that era! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simbalion Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 I would have to say the TI-99/4a also. All my units work except one I have to repair the video connector on, though the RF boxes can sometimes die or the ends break off and it seems they never work even when I repair those. But if you have an AV cable or can repair those boxes, you are golden. Apple II stuff is pretty durable too, but I have been running into power supply issues with my IIe's. Basically one day they work the next they are conked out, but it seems that at least a failed power supply doesn't wipe out the rest of the computer like a Commodore 64. When I feel more confident, I'll crack the power supplies open and see what happened. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamchevy Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 I opened up an RCA 8 track player a few weeks ago and I was very impressed with the quality of capacitors and the amount of solder used. The Circuit boards were very thick. The only thing that had went bad was the belt. Once that was replaced it worked like new. Well what I imagine new would have been like since I wasn’t alive in 1977. I’ve also opened up a few Atari 800 computers and 820 printers. They looked like they could survive another 40-50 years of use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnuphis Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 Yes. The TI-99/4a. There is a reason they were being sold at a loss towards the end. The build quality on the original was amazing. Also the Atari 800 was a solid machine. Mine still works without any repairs or upgrades. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleman jack Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 I would say the Atari 800, the Apple II, and perhaps the Sega Genesis (models 1 and 2). They all seem extremely sturdy to me. Mine are all still going strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hwlngmad Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 Yeah, forgot about the A8s, particularly the 400 and 800. I would imagine those machines will be able to run for many years to come with little to no maintenance either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 IBM PC 5150- They were built like tanks! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hwlngmad Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 1 hour ago, zzip said: IBM PC 5150- They were built like tanks! Any classic IBM PC would be long lasting for sure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted August 25, 2021 Author Share Posted August 25, 2021 (edited) On 8/24/2021 at 1:16 AM, bluejay said: My PET feels indestructible, but has one achilles’ heel; the keyboard. Carbon contacts deteriorate and render the keyboard useless until you apply a new layer of carbon on top. Mine is currently in the process of dying like this; some keys are unresponsive. Planning on fixing it soon. How would you plan on repairing that? As a side note many automotive power-window switches use gold contacts and tiny gold discs. Carbon particle deposit would never stand up to to the constant vibration and temperature swings. Just an fyi. Edited August 25, 2021 by Keatah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluejay Posted August 25, 2021 Share Posted August 25, 2021 2 hours ago, Keatah said: How would you plan on repairing that? As a side note many automotive power-window switches use gold contacts and tiny gold discs. Carbon particle deposit would never stand up to to the constant vibration and temperature swings. Just an fyi. They have carbon contract repair kits that you can paint onto bad contacts. Reapplies the carbon, makes it work again. I bought a $2 carbon paste from AliExpress so I guess we’ll see how that goes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatPix Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 It depends what we take in account. Is it "works without maintenance/simple repair (chemical caps, belts for drives) " "works with minimal/regular maintenance" or even just the minimal "the mainboard works, the rest is just accessories". I haven't owned most machiens so it's hard to say, but the ZX computers (ZX 80, 81 and Spectrum) have a minimal number of components, thus reducing the risk of failure. In a bit more "proven by experience", from 1986 to 2003, a French freeway company used Thomson computers in their toll booth. They retired them... Because the machines that were tasked to transfer the date from tape to digital files modern system could understand, were failing. Not the computers! Talk about a stress test! And to have worked on them, they are reasonnably well build, save for the famous RIFA bangers. There's also the question of usage : as collectors we tend to only have so much time to play on all our machines, so really, how often does our machine works? 1h a week? a month? It is different from workng 8 to 14 hours a day Tho of course, storing a machine will degrade it eventually too... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeroy ST Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 Assuming you mean computers, the Colec- The ST and A8famiky are well built. Pretty much all early PC compatibles competing with IBM are tanks outside the low budget ones. Acorn computers are pretty solid. Arc primarily. Mixed on Riscpc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fimbulvetr Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 I love my ZX Spectrums, but they are not durable at all. Dead chips, bad membrane keyboards, faulty ram. Simple and easy to repair tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 Early machines with those multi-voltage RAM chips are really power sensitive, and power supplies are one of the first things to waver on old machines. I've seen several ADAMs with dead video RAM. The combo of sensitive RAM and cheap power supply is not a good thing. Apple II's are tanks other than those freakin caps in the power supply. CoCos are really reliable, but they are sensitive to people plugging joysticks in with the power on. You just replace a PIA and it's good, but it happens. Amigas have the same issue, different chip. Later machines added a fuse so the chip didn't blow, but you'd have to solder on a new fuse. TI-99/4As seem reliable, but mine rarely comes out of the box. The grey Ataris have keyboard reliability issues. Learned this first hand with my 130XE. Disk drives on all machines are a potential failure point. Bad belts, insert cruddy old disks, etc... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digdugnate Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 I'm going to put a vote in for TI 994A gear. That stuff is built super tanky. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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