Jump to content
IGNORED

Please help me price this lot - newb!


Airshack

Recommended Posts

Howdy Amigos!
 

   I’ve cleaned and restored a number of retro computers but not the elusive random Amiga find. Just found one locally and wonder if you can help me price the lot. Any and all helpful comments appreciated.

 

Buyer asking $750 which seems very (extremely) high for the filthy condition. System produces video but buyer hasn’t tried any disks, so he says. What’s a fair price?

 


 

 

1273D775-4D74-470E-BEA2-06D03A34BD69.png

E8F130E2-A99C-4F64-906F-A1304E456DF3.png

7B736FC9-CAC6-4D06-B2FF-AD8EAE56F575.png

6749FC98-827D-4883-A858-7796C2E812FB.png
 

 

Edited by Airshack
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Take a look at Ebay sold listings. Over in the UK it would only be worth about £100 as they normally need recapping, the drive hasn't been checked etc. Monitor worth more and some of the old games are worth a fair bit now but can't see how it could possibly be worth more than a few hundred dollars, take a browse through ebay for sold prices

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What a hunk of shit (for $750.)  $200, maximum, maybe $300 with the monitor.  Not only is it filthy, but it only has Kickstart 1.2.  That is not a big deal if you just want a game machine, but if you ever want to cheaply expand and boot into a hard drive of CF you must have v1.3 or better (ideally if you want it to be a usable computer something like 3.1 or the newer 3.1.4 or 3.2.)

 

Have not tried any disks?  That means the disk drive is probably not working -- there is no reason to not test disks if he brought it up to the stage in the photos.  There might be some extras which make the system more valuable, but I would not go higher just for what i see, even with the external drive and games (untested, mind you.)

 

For $750, I expect every one of those games to be tested (it does not take long if you keep from getting side-tracked and playing.)  Even then I am stand-offish about the price.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, OLD CS1 said:

it only has Kickstart 1.2.  That is not a big deal if you just want a game machine, but if you ever want to cheaply expand and boot into a hard drive of CF you must have v1.3 or better (ideally if you want it to be a usable computer something like 3.1 or the newer 3.1.4 or 3.2.)

Upgradable to 3.2 via a ROM swap I assume? I’ll need to research the cost of that.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, arcadeshopper said:

does it have the memory expansion card with the varta on it if so you want to see pictures of that with the varta replaced or remove

Pretty sure he’s like me and has no clue on varta or memory expansion. An elderly neighbor’s estate sale find so not an original owner.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, that's a hefty price tag alright. As others have said, that's A1200 territory, which is a significant upgrade over the A500.

 

It's an A500, so recapping is usually not required, unlike some of the later Amiga models. Don't worry about that aspect for now.

 

Upgrading the ROMs can be useful, but it depends on what you want to do with it. If you just want to boot games from floppy, 1.2 is enough. If you want to add a hard drive, you'll probably need to update it to 1.3 at least. 3.1, 3.1.4 or 3.2 will give you a much more up-to-date experience, but you might fine reduced compatibility with older games run from floppy. Additionally, 3,1,4 and 3.2 pretty much require a hard drive, and while you can get around that, there's very little point because you'll miss out on almost all of the improvements.

 

If you're adding a hard drive and updating to a more recent Kickstart for games, you'll also need a more significant RAM expansion than the basic 512K one that's often found in the trapdoors of these machines. 4MB is a reasonable minimum to be able to play games from hard drive via WHDLoad, and 8MB is more comfortable.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/9/2021 at 3:30 PM, Airshack said:

Upgradable to 3.2 via a ROM swap I assume? I’ll need to research the cost of that.

Since it has 1.2 roms, it is likely an older motherboard (rev 5 or lower).  If so it will need an adapter for newer ROMs.  I can't recall if there is more than one type of adapter or if they are all the same for the lower rev motherboards.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just want to say congratulations for posting EXACTLY the right way to ask for help on this type of thing.  You got everything right down to the subforum, and you can tell by all the helpful responses.

 

Many a forum member has stumbled into hostile waters while attempting the same thing . . .

 

 

Also - I had a friend who owned an A500 bitd and we spent lots of time playing North and South, Pirates, and Siege and the Sword.  That's quite the nostalgia bundle you've stumbled on there (for me at least).

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, chue said:

Since it has 1.2 roms, it is likely an older motherboard (rev 5 or lower).  If so it will need an adapter for newer ROMs.  I can't recall if there is more than one type of adapter or if they are all the same for the lower rev motherboards.

ISTR I had 1.3 in my Rev 5 motherboard, but 2.04 required a different ROM which could not be installed on the v5 without using a wire jumper somewhere.  Though, by then I am certain I moved to a Rev 6.

 

Anyway, this thread seems to support my memory.

 

https://forum.amiga.org/index.php?topic=58337.0

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looks like I have a Rev 5. The disk drive is indeed non-functioning.

 

What I tried: 

 

A. lithium grease on the single rail and drive motor gear.

 

B. Alcohol cleaning of the drive heads. The top and bottom small white squares.

 

The drive mechanism moves inward when a diskette is inserted and the system is turned on, and the disk spins as expected, green LED illuminates…

 

  It appears the drive mechanism is not moving outward (right) as the floppy disk rotates. 

 

Any ideas on a fix?
 

71CC5953-29DD-438A-9EE6-BF99019D8A9A.jpeg

F105C558-2461-4B84-8732-B61A914D0070.jpeg

Edited by Airshack
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/9/2021 at 4:08 AM, digdugnate said:

With the monitor included plus the games, my thought is around $300 in the condition it's in.

For the curious this was the price negotiated for the entire lot. I was able to use screen-shots of all of your feedback to get the deal completed. Thank you.

Edited by Airshack
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Airshack When left to sit at the Kickstart screen with no floppy in the drive, does the drive click bank-and-forth?  If not, it could be a problem with the drive itself or the CIA (8520A) which controls the drive.  What about the external drive?  Does the system behave the same with the external drive detached and attached? The mechanisms are likely interchangeable, though the external will likely not mount in the case, so it could be used for testing.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
On 9/22/2021 at 12:42 PM, OLD CS1 said:

@Airshack When left to sit at the Kickstart screen with no floppy in the drive, does the drive click bank-and-forth?  If not, it could be a problem with the drive itself or the CIA (8520A) which controls the drive.  What about the external drive?  Does the system behave the same with the external drive detached and attached? The mechanisms are likely interchangeable, though the external will likely not mount in the case, so it could be used for testing.

The internal drive had small corrosion dots on top and seems to spin but not read any disks inserted. It seems to be endlessly searching. I believe the original internal is malfunctioning mechanically. 

 

I next attempted to switch out the internal with the external, yet the ribbon cable to the external drive has power on the opposite side? I tried inverting the cable but as expected, that didn’t work. I tried it plugged in both ways hoping against hope...nothing.

 

Finally, I was able to boot the system with a Gotek drive. This tells me the CIA is working and I just had a bad internal drive. The system runs normally :

 

1A68E8EE-B8EC-46AF-98CA-A5F507CA71BE.thumb.jpeg.af4a0be2bd3c16b81fcc7f508fcfa2b5.jpeg

 

NEXT ISSUE: I ordered this ROM 3.9OS & [8gb fast RAM + IDE controller + 4mb CF] from a guy in the Ukraine whom assured me it’d work in a US Rev5 machine. What I didn’t tell him (because I didn’t know enough to ask) was my system was ROM 1.2 with the 8370 AGNUS. Apparently I have an early run machine. Now the seller is telling me to order an updated  AGNUS to get his expansion system working.

 

DC4A6450-7812-43DC-AB66-32D2A3A853E0.thumb.jpeg.a65d94f7319d38874049619affc438fc.jpeg

  https://www.ebay.com/itm/Comodore-Amiga-500-8MB-RAM-IDE-/313699515656?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

 

If a new AGNUS is what I need I’ll be looking for tips on which AGNUS to order and where to source it?

 

Is there a possibility this ROM 3.9 he mailed me ever boots in my A500? He also mentioned I may need 3.1? 

 

I’m not an Amiga guy (yet) so I’d appreciate any and all pointers the members here may offer.  - James

 

Good news: The system cleaned up nicely. See before and after below...

 

99DF45F8-D37D-4AA2-AE3B-860BC1CDD370.thumb.jpeg.6fd548670c09d87bb4a55073000bd43e.jpeg

 

711F4C73-EFDA-46A1-A8E1-709954FF93E2.thumb.jpeg.cc966060e7165022c57d6029238eeb76.jpeg

 

2CAA7A47-960D-4C59-AE46-48D5888BBDC5.thumb.jpeg.5a0a94a8c76c8acbecb1585259d24265.jpeg

 

Edited by Airshack
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Airshack said:

The internal drive had small corrosion dots on top and seems to spin but not read any disks inserted. It seems to be endlessly searching. I believe the original internal is malfunctioning mechanically. 

 

I next attempted to switch out the internal with the external, yet the ribbon cable to the external drive has power on the opposite side? I tried inverting the cable but as expected, that didn’t work. I tried it plugged in both ways hoping against hope...nothing.

 

Finally, I was able to boot the system with a Gotek drive. This tells me the CIA is working and I just had a bad internal drive. The system runs normally :

 

1A68E8EE-B8EC-46AF-98CA-A5F507CA71BE.thumb.jpeg.af4a0be2bd3c16b81fcc7f508fcfa2b5.jpeg

 

NEXT ISSUE: I ordered this ROM 3.9OS & [8gb fast RAM + IDE controller + 4mb CF] from a guy in the Ukraine whom assured me it’d work in a US Rev5 machine. What I didn’t tell him (because I didn’t know enough to ask) was my system was ROM 1.2 with the 8370 AGNUS. Apparently I have an early run machine. Now the seller is telling me to order an updated  AGNUS to get his expansion system working.

 

DC4A6450-7812-43DC-AB66-32D2A3A853E0.thumb.jpeg.a65d94f7319d38874049619affc438fc.jpeg

  https://www.ebay.com/itm/Comodore-Amiga-500-8MB-RAM-IDE-/313699515656?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

 

If a new AGNUS is what I need I’ll be looking for tips on which AGNUS to order and where to source it?

 

Is there a possibility this ROM 3.9 he mailed me ever boots in my A500? He also mentioned I may need 3.1? 

 

I’m not an Amiga guy (yet) so I’d appreciate any and all pointers the members here may offer.  - James

 

Good news: The system cleaned up nicely. See before and after below...

 

99DF45F8-D37D-4AA2-AE3B-860BC1CDD370.thumb.jpeg.6fd548670c09d87bb4a55073000bd43e.jpeg

 

711F4C73-EFDA-46A1-A8E1-709954FF93E2.thumb.jpeg.cc966060e7165022c57d6029238eeb76.jpeg

 

2CAA7A47-960D-4C59-AE46-48D5888BBDC5.thumb.jpeg.5a0a94a8c76c8acbecb1585259d24265.jpeg

 

That cleaned up nicely. AFAIK, Kickstart 3.9 isn't an official rom from anyone. It's some kind of homebrew thing. Agnus 8370 only gives you 512kb chip, so you need to drop in something else.

 

There are several options.

 

1.  You need to piggy back 16 x 41256s over the existing 512kb on the board, isolate pin 4 from the rest of the chips already soldered and connect them all to RAS1 ( U35 ) and cut a trace to one of the pads, and solder / bridge two other pads. This will give you 1mb of physical memory. Probably the most troublesome to do because these ram chips aren't easy to come by and are expensive. And of course you also have replace the Agnus.

 

https://myoldcomputer.nl/amiga/1-mb-chip-ram-a500-rev-5/

 

2. The other method is to drop in an 8372, use a 512kb trapdoor expansion and modify it so that the trapdoor ram is utilised as chip memory instead of slow.

 

3. Another option is the MegaChip which gives you 2mb chip, the problem is getting one. It appears all sold out.

 

https://acillclassics.wordpress.com/2019/02/18/megachip-a500-install/

 

Probably more practical to get a Rev 6A or 8a motherboard.

 

Edited by shoestring
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Airshack said:

NEXT ISSUE: I ordered this ROM 3.9OS & [8gb fast RAM + IDE controller + 4mb CF] from a guy in the Ukraine whom assured me it’d work in a US Rev5 machine. What I didn’t tell him (because I didn’t know enough to ask) was my system was ROM 1.2 with the 8370 AGNUS. Apparently I have an early run machine. Now the seller is telling me to order an updated  AGNUS to get his expansion system working.

It is possible that you will need a newer Agnus, but let's take a step back for a second.  Does the new 3.1 ROM boot in your A500 without the expansion installed?  Are you able to get to the following 3.1 "insert disk" screen (or something similar)?

 

1074140891_OS3.1boot.thumb.JPG.fbaf061350fd86db773f247297d5ba3b.JPG

 

This is a screenshot from the ebay listing of the item you bought:

 

a500-8mb-ide.thumb.JPG.bc0702326169b76fd85915ed1fb5bc9b.JPG

 

It looks to me like the 3.1 ROM is plugged directly into the A500 motherboard.  (I am assuming the ROM doesn't go into the expansion card.) The motherboard in the ebay screenshot is newer than yours, it's a rev 8 (?).  Yours is a rev 5 I believe.  I suspect that you still need an adapter for the kickstart ROM as mentioned in my previous post: 

 

 

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, shoestring said:

Probably more practical to get a Rev 6A or 8a motherboard.

This.  I had a Rev 5 motherboard which had been upgraded with a 8372a "Fatter" Agnus with a clipped jumper on the board, but I also had a RAM expansion which provided 4MB RAM and 512k second half of ChipRAM.  But I also had a KS2.04 ROM in place by using a wire jumper on the ROM socket.

 

Rev 6A and 8A mobos are simply easier to deal with.  My Rev 6A was upgraded to 1Mb ChipRAM by installing RAM in the extra sockets on the board.  I later got a MegAChip then went all out with a Rev 8A.

 

13 hours ago, Airshack said:

Is there a possibility this ROM 3.9 he mailed me ever boots in my A500? He also mentioned I may need 3.1?

AmigaOS 3.9 needs KS3.1 ROM, requires KS3.0 (IIRC.)  Also, the minimum spec is 68020, so it is absolutely possible this OS will not work on your unaccelerated 500.  The newer 3.2 would have been better for your configuration.

 

Since I do not know what he sent you, I cannot speak as to whether anything will work or not.  The AmigaOS 3.9 installation is done from CD, so I can only hope that it comes pre-installed on that CF card you ordered.

 

As for the drive issues.  It is entirely possible you have two failed mechanisms.  Those things are old as dirt now and they are like Die Hard batteries of old: they run run run run run and then die.  I believe at one time there were people who would refurbish them, but technology has come to the point that you can use a PC drive with an adapter.

 

I cannot speak to how well these adapters work.  Over a decade ago I acquired Amiga HD drives and placed one in all of my active units, most of which had failed DD or missing DD drives.  The adapters will only allow the drive to work in DD mode as HD requires the drive run at half-speed, which is not possible with almost all PC HD drives.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, shoestring said:

That cleaned up nicely. AFAIK, Kickstart 3.9 isn't an official rom from anyone. It's some kind of homebrew thing. Agnus 8370 only gives you 512kb chip, so you need to drop in something else.

It is actually Kickstart 3.1 on the supplied EPROM. The 3.9 was a mistake I made in my post. Apparently there's a time limit on edits?

Edited by Airshack
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...