I'm advertising Template Creator for Windows again! :)

[Harry Potter]

Hi!  Please excuse the SPAM, but I'm wondering if anybody out there would like or have some .ATR disk images of which he/she would like to make copies.  I'm asking because I have a program called Template Creator for Windows which can create new files from old files with little more than a click of the mouse.  It is at tmpcreat - Manage Files at SourceForge.net.  Try it out, and tell me what you think!  

 

BTW, I also have Dos and C64 versions, and I plan to make an Atari8 version as soon as I get the C128 version to work.

[TGB1718]

Maybe it's just me, but I've read the ".txt" file and am none the wiser on what this is supposed to do.

So I downloaded the windows version to see if I could work out what it does, but it doesn't run under

Windows 10, double click any of the .exe's except the install.exe and nothing. All the install did was

create a folder on the desktop.

[Harry Potter]

Try running the installer and the extvista_.exe program as Administrator.  I'm sorry about the poor documentation.  Template Creator is a utility that allows you to create a new file from an old file.  Does that help?

[ilmenit]

"Template Creator is a utility that allows you to create a new file from an old file"

could you explain what is the purpose of this utility and how it's better than just having some empty ATRs of different DOSes in a folders and making a copy when needed? At the first sight you are trying to solve a problem that nobody has

Edited October 7, 2021 by ilmenit

[Harry Potter]

Sorry!  It is simply a program that attaches itself to the Shell's New menu so that you can create the file without having the source folder open.  I guess it's useless. 

[drac030]

I guessed that it may be adding itself to the "New" in Windows, but the question is why you did not write that in the documentation? "A utility that allows you to create a new file from an old file" means nothing, COPY also does "create new files from old files".

 

The other question is, if it adds itself to the "New" in Windows, what does the MS-DOS version do? As far as I can tell, MS-DOS does not have any "New" menu in its shell. But maybe I am wrong.

 

Edited October 7, 2021 by drac030

[ivop]

17 hours ago, Harry Potter said:

Try running the installer and the extvista_.exe program as Administrator.

As Administrator? Have you Windows folks not learnt anything in the past 30 years?

 

Sorry, had to vent. I'll show myself out.

[TGB1718]

20 minutes ago, ivop said:

As Administrator? Have you Windows folks not learnt anything in the past 30 years?

But you have to be administrator to really screw things up ?

[Harry Potter]

The DOS version is run like any other application, but, since DOS doesn't have a New menu, you have to use VBDOS's (It's a VBDOS program.) SaveAs dialog box to save the file.  If you want, I can add command-line support to the program.

[drac030]

Uhm, VBDOS program, okay. So it is useless under plain MS-DOS?

 

Next question, so it is useless without VBDOS and its "SaveAs" dialog, what the CBM version and the planned Atari version are supposed to do?

 

Could you please provide a real-life example of a difficulty we encounter on Atari, that that program could solve and how? Step by step.

[Harry Potter]

No, it was simply compiled using VBDOS.  It works directly from normal DOS.  The CBM version runs from the C64 without any needed extra support.  Actually, it is little more than a copy program which provides an organization to the templates.

[ilmenit]

2 hours ago, ivop said:

As Administrator? Have you Windows folks not learnt anything in the past 30 years?

 

Sorry, had to vent. I'll show myself out.

we did, and for about 20 years now you do not need admin rights or running in context of system for majority of properly written apps. However... have you Linux folks not learnt anything in the past 30 years, that for single user-system it basically does not matter? Majority of malware do not require admin rights to run, because just running in the context of a user it can do whatever the user can do, with everything the user has access to.

Edited October 7, 2021 by ilmenit

[ivop]

10 minutes ago, ilmenit said:

we did,

Well, you did. And a lot of others, but some still don't get it apparently.

10 minutes ago, ilmenit said:

and for about 20 years now you do not need admin rights or running in context of system for majority of properly written apps. However... have you Linux folks not learnt anything in the past 30 years, that for single user-system it basically does not matter?

Oh no, that's the it-doesn't-matter mindset. It DOES! I even run WINE under a separate account so buggy (or worse, virus invested) windows binaries cannot touch my main account.

10 minutes ago, ilmenit said:

Majority of malware do not require admin rights to run, because just running in the context of a user it can do whatever the user can do, with everything the user has access to.

Hence my separate account to run Windows binaries. If I had to use Windows, I'd use separate accounts or VMs to protect my personal data.

[drac030]

35 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

It works directly from normal DOS.  (...)  Actually, it is little more than a copy program which provides an organization to the templates.

Ok, so suppose that I now have the TMPCR02 upacked and I am under MS-DOS. I ran SETUP.EXE and it said "Path/File access error creating directory. You may not be able to save new templates", but it nevertheless created a subdirectory named T. If I now want to "create a new file from an old file" using this software, what I am supposed to do? Starting TMPCREAT.EXE brings a menu called "Template creator selector" which does not seem to contain anything or make an obvious sense otherwise What now?

[Harry Potter]

Read the readme.txt file.  If you still don't understand, come back here.

[danwinslow]

Oh, the irony!

[drac030]

16 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

Read the readme.txt file.  If you still don't understand, come back here.

The readme.txt file says:

 

Quote

To use this program, type TMPCREAT from the DOS prompt.

 

Check.

 

Quote

Select the file type and template name you want.

 

Not possible, both "File type" and "Template name", when clicked, open empty lists, there is nothing to select from them. And neither option accepts keyboard input. What now?

 

 

Edited October 7, 2021 by drac030

[Harry Potter]

You have to add a template to the list.  Click Add, then add the file types you're using and the group names to the list.  The resulting dialog boxes should be self-explanatory.  Then add the template files to the database.  File Ext is the extension of the file to add.  Temp Name is the long name you see in the main dialog box.  Temp File is the filename of the resulting template.  Load file is the path of the file to add (You can press Load to find the file.).  Group is the group name.  Does this help?

[drac030]

12 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

Click Add, then add the file types you're using and the group names to the list.  The resulting dialog boxes should be self-explanatory.

They are not. What files "I am using" under MS-DOS? Can this be an ATR file? What is a "group" in this context? If this asks me to select between "File type", "Template" and "Group", what is the difference?

 

I will ask again: could you please be so kind and provide a real-life example of the use of this program? What YOU use this (or would use this) for under MS-DOS? Step by step.

 

[Harry Potter]

File Type is the name given to the file extension; Template is the long name of the file, and Group is a category: basically a way to organize several templates in one location.  I occasionally use it on a DOS laptop with a disk compression program called JAM.  It doesn't have an AutoMount feature, so I have batch files to mount a disk, run a program, then unmount a disk.  I use TmpCreat to create the files then edit the results to the programs on the disk.  If you program on DOS or Windows, you could create a module that you might need again and again, add it to the TmpCreat database, then create new files from it.  I also create almost-empty (It has my DirMenu/CBM program on it) CBM disk images with it.  You can treat an .ATR file as a template and create new images from it.  Does this help?

[drac030]

6 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

File Type is the name given to the file extension; Template is the long name of the file, and Group is a category: basically a way to organize several templates in one location.

Examples?

 

8 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

It doesn't have an AutoMount feature, so I have batch files to mount a disk, run a program, then unmount a disk.  I use TmpCreat to create the files

To create what files?

 

8 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

then edit the results

What results?

 

8 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

to the programs on the disk.

To what programs and why?

 

9 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

If you program on DOS or Windows, you could create a module that you might need again and again, add it to the TmpCreat database, then create new files from it.

What do you mean by "module"? As in the "C language source module"? Why do I need the TmpCreat to reuse it?

 

10 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

You can treat an .ATR file as a template and create new images from it.

How?

 

11 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

Does this help?

No and it never will until you provide at least one real-life example on how it can be used, also demonstrating why it is superior to the systems without that solution.

[ilmenit]

9 hours ago, drac030 said:

No and it never will until you provide at least one real-life example on how it can be used, also demonstrating why it is superior to the systems without that solution.

@Harry Potter - the best if you could attach here as a ZIP copy of your directory structure with *working* example (with a few groups/templates/modules/files - and whatever else the tool supports). You advertise the tool trying to convince the others to use it, but we need an example of how it should be properly used.

[TGB1718]

2 hours ago, ilmenit said:

but we need an example of how it should be properly used.

and maybe more importantly what problem does it solve or help with, the more I read, the more confused I get as to what this achieves ???

[drac030]

Not that I figured out, how to use that program under MS-DOS (I am still lost here), but, relying on the fact that this is supposed to be something similar to what the "New" option makes in Windows, I guess what it is supposed to do. Namely, it probably "creates new files" (i.e. stubs, or empty files, of the type desired by the user) in current directory, "from old files", i.e. templates stored in some central template database.

 

It is like when I want to create a new ODT document in Windows, I right-click on the desktop background or a desktop window, then, from the menu that appears, I select "New", then "OpenOffice Writer document". Then in the place where I had clicked an empty ODT file is created.

 

In DOS it could be done similarly, e.g. with a command like NEW or CREATE or whatever. E.g. the user types NEW FOOBAR.BAS, then the program invoked copies an empty BASIC program (stub) from its database to the current directory, and names it as the user wanted (FOOBAR.BAS in this case). Then the user can open the file in a BASIC editor and start editing.

 

The new file created does not necessarily need to be empty, e.g. a C stub could already contain #include <stdio.h>, int main() { return 0; } or whatever of this type.

 

So the idea might be not bad in itself.

Edited October 8, 2021 by drac030

[ilmenit]

3 hours ago, drac030 said:

So the idea might be not bad in itself.

well, when using pure DOS commands it may be useful, but as soon as you have some file manager (and who doesn't) a simple directory structure where you place named "template" files in named folders for grouping seems to be more convenient.