Prototype of Las Vegas Roulette & Slots discovered

[decle]

Amongst the files we've recovered from a PDP-11 owned by Technology Associates was the intriguingly titled "Vegas II".  This name first appeared on a list of games that was found with a PlayCable adapter bought from a store in NJ...

 

 

The file we've found is in the PlayTape format used by Jerrold engineers to make game backups that can be played at home on hacked PlayCable adapters.  This, and the other oddball names on the list, suggests the piece of paper might detail the contents of one or more PlayTape audio cassettes (unfortunately no cassettes were sold with the PlayCable).  Following a bit of tinkering to convert the PlayTape format into something compatible with JzIntv, we have it up and running.  The result appears to be a previously unknown prototype of Las Vegas Roulette & Slots.  So, for the first time in 40 years, Vegas II...

 

 

By the way, apologies if you get ads on my videos now. This is not my doing, and I don't get any revenue from it (my channel is waaaayyyy too small to be monetized).  This seems to be a policy change by Google.  Unfortunately, I didn't notice the switch until recently (I use an ad-blocker).

Edited October 6, 2021 by decle
Can't even type one sentence without making a grammatical error

[JoeM_Intellivision]

Very impressive thanks for sharing!

joe

[Atari_Bill]

??????

 

We need a full cart release of this!!  Love it!

[+cmart604]

Awesome find! 

[+cjherr]

Very cool!

[+evg2000]

28 minutes ago, Atari_Bill said:

??????

 

We need a full cart release of this!!  Love it!

Shouldn’t it be digital only if it was meant for play cable? ?

 

[+stupus]

So Cool! Thanks for you work on it!

I 2nd a cart release!

[+intellivotion]

and I definitely 3rd it as well!

[Morpheus]

Thanks a lot for the amazing work!!!??

Very interesting, as always !

[Gernot]

"There isn't much of gameplay..." well as for all betting games.

Nonetheless decle this is a great finding.

 

...me neither, in fact i dislike chance games mostly virtual chance games, for two reasons there is nothing to win which makes the rather boring experience even more boring and well "same number draws always the same number" which isn't chance at all. I remember well that my dad made in the seventies an electronic dice but as with all of them it leaked exactly of this it can't replace a dice roll, as usual the randomness was in milliseconds (difference of touching the contacts), the most interesting fact was that it was controlled by the back then "absolutely brand new" touch control you found a little later in the '80s on any TV set.

I posted already to the "Backgammon" thread that i had in my youth a Backgammon computer it allowed to use real dice and enter the values, played in this manner the machine hardly won.

 

I'm not a cards counter but i had a friend which "leaked" of this special talent, he easy could predict slot machines apart from playing video games for hours with a single coin "i can't understand you it's soooo easy"... This dude could predict cards from up to three decks - amazing! Playing Poker or Blackjack against him was a pure loss. We, which is him some friends from back then and little me designed a sort of Monopoly (not the one i posted once, this was made quite later) we played at Sundays in our Pub, SFr. 50.- stake, but even this was mostly won by him.

 

And erm you do check your comments for grammatical errors?

I thought only me is revising his comments over and over...

 

---

 

Sometimes i miss you and your electronic toys daddy.

Papi Wilhelm: "You need to have blisters on your fingers before you understand the matter".

Edited October 7, 2021 by Gernot

[Tempest]

I wonder if they dropped slots because they couldn't figure out a way to get around that graphic limitation of not being able to show a cherry on the third reel?  It does look kind of odd.  Or maybe the changes they did to tweak Roulette took up too much room?  Otherwise I can't see a reason to drop slots even if it was lackluster.

 

Do we know if coding for Craps was started or completed?  It's interesting that Slots turned up but not Craps.

[mr_me]

From the old Intellivisionlives website:

"APh completed (and was paid for) this adaptation of the dice game Craps, but it doesn't appear to have ever been announced or scheduled by Marketing for release."

 

With slots, they could have shown the ninth fruit with background graphics. They look like low resolution sprite graphics.  How big is the Roulette Slots combo rom file.  The Roulette cartridge is about 3.2k, not much room for anything else.

[Gernot]

Imho i would have dropped the idea of a virtual slot machine right at start, to flip a coin is exactly as fascinating as this it equals to NIL to me. I guess craps and slots won't use much extra space in general it is the same a spinning wheel of numbers with a "random" stop. The poor graphics of slots show this well and it is a sort of game which you could have realized for the outraking "Unisonic Champion 2711", a single button controller will suit for it (pardon me) and a pure dice rolling game won't need a lot of graphics at all - just six dots per dice. Roulette offers at least a little bit of gameplay because the betting strategies vary, pure dice rolling or a slot machine offers nothing of this. Further virtual slot machines won't cover what they are for real, a virtual slot machine will be balanced while in reality they are cheated to generate profit. Dammit i have a young friend who is recently addicted to lots (is that proper told?) like far to many and i don't understand what they get out of this extremely short fascination not to know what the result will be (flip a coin), i always like to convince him that no one would start such a lottery if the gain was on side of the players, likewise for slot machines you shouldn't play it, in a long run you only will lose. He's on the other hand a cool dude and can play first person shooters very well, last year he played Doom on my machine for the very first time and it was a sort of walkthrough to him. A little randomness is the salt in a game but to consume only salt is not wise.

 

He's really a funny dude, he told me about a maths prof who claimed that you can have a row of over 30 times heads if you flip a coin, he liked to demonstrate to me that it won't work and reached twelve - sorry my fellow it is possible in an endless stream you demonstrated it with a contrary mind setting (perhaps exactly because of his contrary mind setting? Fortuna is still a not to control goddess and does whatever pleases her, "Ha, i will show you...", but however never depend on her she is very willful) . To stay with real randomness, it is what we maybe don't understand to well about chance, as low as a chance will be as long as this chance does not equal to zero it is in fact a chance of 1:1, it will happen or not. "if it is in the range of possibilities it either has already happened, will happen right now or happens in future" (a reply i received once from Dr. Mitchell to the topic extraterrestrial visitors, personally i'm very conservative to this topic but he's right "as long as it is not zero...").

[Tempest]

1 hour ago, Gernot said:

Imho i would have dropped the idea of a virtual slot machine right at start

I never understood slot machine video games myself, but you have to remember this was still early enough on that anything, no matter how mundane, done on a computer or game system was new and fascinating.  I remember talking to David Crane and asking him about the 2600 Slot Machine cartridge and he told me that he made it so his mother (or was it his grandmother?) could play slots on her TV because she couldn't get out to the casino.  So there was a market for such things, even if it seems kind of dull now.

[mr_me]

Now you have online casino gambling but before the internet there was a market for computer casino games.  I always looked at it as a way for people to practice before going to a real casino.  I never understood the appeal of slots in a real casino but the floorspace of a casino is about 80% slots.

[Tempest]

5 minutes ago, mr_me said:

 I never understood the appeal of slots in a real casino but the floorspace of a casino is about 80% slots.

Mindless entertainment and exciting noises. I mostly play slots the once a decade I'm in Vegas.

 

I still wonder how they were planning on cramming all three games into the cart.  Unless Craps was very simple or they were going to spring for a larger cart.  I think it's interesting that craps was removed but slots remained (for awhile anyway).  Maybe they thought about making Craps its own cart before killing it? 

[Gernot]

27 minutes ago, mr_me said:

Now you have online casino gambling but before the internet there was a market for computer casino games.

Online casino games, a thing my young friend plays often if that is part of a game like for GTA i can see a value.

[mr_me]

27 minutes ago, Tempest said:

...

I still wonder how they were planning on cramming all three games into the cart.  Unless Craps was very simple or they were going to spring for a larger cart.  I think it's interesting that craps was removed but slots remained (for awhile anyway).  Maybe they thought about making Craps its own cart before killing it? 

Roulette is more than 3/4 of the cartridge, there's no way Craps fits; and no larger cartridges until 1982.  (I assume someone checked that slots is not hidden in the Roulette cartridge.) Roulette selling poorly might have had something to do with it.  The other thing is if compromises were made to the game.  For example, Intellivision Blackjack is missing features you'd find in a casino, so it's not a good simulation.

Edited October 7, 2021 by mr_me

[First Spear]

@decle  This is gold! Thank you for sharing!

 

I tried to find a full list of APh employees and the games they covered, do you know where one might be? I hadn't heard of Walter Bright before this (but had seen John Brooks' name before).

 

 

[decle]

On 10/6/2021 at 9:22 PM, Atari_Bill said:

We need a full cart release of this!!  Love it!

Sorry, we don't own the rights to the game, so we can't distribute it.

 

On 10/7/2021 at 12:55 PM, Tempest said:

you have to remember this was still early enough on that anything, no matter how mundane, done on a computer or game system was new and fascinating.

I think this is an excellent observation.

 

On 10/7/2021 at 8:50 AM, mr_me said:

How big is the Roulette Slots combo rom file.  The Roulette cartridge is about 3.2k, not much room for anything else.

Vegas II is 3900 decles long, this compares with the released version of Roulette which is 3265 decles.  So, as things stand, Craps would have to be 196 decles or less for all three games to fit into 4K (4096 decles).  However, we don't know how much optimisation has been done to Vegas II, and therefore, how much more could be squeezed.

 

17 hours ago, First Spear said:

I tried to find a full list of APh employees and the games they covered, do you know where one might be?

No, I didn't, but it's not hard to put one together, or at least a first stab at one...

 

Game	Programmer(s)	Reference(s)
ABPA Backgammon	Kevin Miller	https://www.mobygames.com/game/abpa-backgammon
Advanced Dungeons and Dragons	Chris Hawley, Tom Soulanille, Tom Loughry	http://intellivisionaries.com/episode-6-the-dreadnaught-factor/
Armor Battle	Chris Kingsley	http://gdri.smspower.org/wiki/index.php/APh_Technological_Consulting
Auto Racing	Larry Zwick	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto_Racing_(video_game)
Boxing	Tom Loughry	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing_(1981_video_game)
Checkers	David Rolfe	http://gdri.smspower.org/wiki/index.php/APh_Technological_Consulting
Frog Bog	Peter Kaminski, Tom Soulanille	http://gdri.smspower.org/wiki/index.php/APh_Technological_Consulting
Horse Racing	Chris Hawley	http://gdri.smspower.org/wiki/index.php/APh_Technological_Consulting
Las Vegas Poker and Blackjack	David Rolfe	http://gdri.smspower.org/wiki/index.php/APh_Technological_Consulting
Las Vegas Roulette	Walter Bright, John Brooks	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intellivision_games
Major League Baseball	David Rolfe	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_(Intellivision_video_game)
Math Fun	Kimo Yap	http://gdri.smspower.org/wiki/index.php/APh_Technological_Consulting
NASL Soccer	Kevin Miller	http://gdri.smspower.org/wiki/index.php/APh_Technological_Consulting
NBA Basketball	Ken Smith	http://intellivisionaries.com/episode-18-basketballs/
NFL Football	Ken Smith, Kevin Miller, Glyn Anderson	https://www.mobygames.com/game/nfl-football, http://gdri.smspower.org/wiki/index.php/APh_Technological_Consulting
NHL Hockey	Ken Smith	https://www.mobygames.com/game/nhl-hockey_
PGA Golf	Scott Bishop	http://gdri.smspower.org/wiki/index.php/APh_Technological_Consulting
Reversi	Greg Favour	http://gdri.smspower.org/wiki/index.php/APh_Technological_Consulting
Royal Dealer	Rich O’Keefe	http://gdri.smspower.org/wiki/index.php/APh_Technological_Consulting
Sea Battle	Ken Smith	http://gdri.smspower.org/wiki/index.php/APh_Technological_Consulting
Sharp Shot	Frank Evans	http://gdri.smspower.org/wiki/index.php/APh_Technological_Consulting
Space Armada	John Brooks, Chris Hawley	http://gdri.smspower.org/wiki/index.php/APh_Technological_Consulting
Space Battle	Hal Finney	http://gdri.smspower.org/wiki/index.php/APh_Technological_Consulting
Star Strike	Hal Finney, Brett Stutz	http://gdri.smspower.org/wiki/index.php/APh_Technological_Consulting
Sub Hunt	John Hershberger, Tom Loughry	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intellivision_games
Tennis	Gavin Claypool	http://gdri.smspower.org/wiki/index.php/APh_Technological_Consulting
Treasure of Tarmin	Tom Loughry	http://gdri.smspower.org/wiki/index.php/APh_Technological_Consulting
Triple Action	Rich O’Keefe, Shal Farley	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intellivision_games
US Ski Team Skiing	Scott Reynolds	http://gdri.smspower.org/wiki/index.php/APh_Technological_Consulting
Word Fun	Kevin Miller	https://www.mobygames.com/game/abpa-backgammon
World Championship Baseball	Dan Dickerson, Mike Minkoff	http://gdri.smspower.org/wiki/index.php/APh_Technological_Consulting

 

As you can see most of the references come from GRDI, Moby Games and Wikipedia.  The GRDI page is especially good, it lists a couple of titles I had not heard of before, for example "More of Theirs" by John Brooks, and Explorer.

 

17 hours ago, First Spear said:

I hadn't heard of Walter Bright before this (but had seen John Brooks' name before).

My understanding is that Walter wrote the core Roulette game prior to leaving APh in June 1979.  However, he did not write Slots and doesn't know who did.  Perhaps John Brooks did the control and animation overhaul?  Its interesting the GRDI doesn't list Slots, but does list Craps. Unfortunately, it doesn't attribute an author, so we can't go a chasing.

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by decle

[+Steve Jones]

If anybody really wants to play slots on their Intellivision, a different version of slots is one of the games on IntyBasic Volume 3, available from Intellivision Revolution.

[Walter Ives]

On 10/7/2021 at 4:55 AM, Tempest said:

I never understood slot machine video games myself, but...

There's a reason the Consumer Electronics Show and other trade shows are held in Las Vegas. Think of the kind of personalities that become marketing and sales executives on one side and store buyers on the other side. They're the type that are fascinated by shiny lights and bells and want to sell and buy the excitement they see on casino floors. They don't viscerally relate to what you think of as videogame fun.

In contrast, there's the legendary story of the 1986 General Meeting of the American Physical Society, March 31-April 4 1986, held for the one and only time in Las Vegas:

https://www.aps.org/publications/apsnews/199908/knowledge.cfm

 

On 10/11/2021 at 12:45 PM, decle said:

Vegas II is 3900 decles long, this compares with the released version of Roulette which is 3265 decles.  So, as things stand, Craps would have to be 196 decles or less for all three games to fit into 4K (4096 decles).  However, we don't know how much optimisation has been done to Vegas II, and therefore, how much more could be squeezed.

Vegas II had to be finished before it could be squeezed. The wheel graphics you show for the in-progress version reused the same cards as the table; turning the numbers ninety degrees as done for the final cartridge greatly improved the effect but cost non-negligible space, 80 decles just for the extra GRAM card images. The roulette betting mechanics was just a place-holder that still needed to be developed. Similarly, the slot machine needed a handle that could be teased and a ninth symbol created by sequencing GRAM. Sound needed to be added to both. Development continued; in the end there wasn't quite enough room for both games and a choice had to be made between including the full roulette betting mechanics or slots.

 

[Walter Ives]

On 10/6/2021 at 12:55 PM, decle said:

From the video: "Hi there. Decle here. This video takes a look at a prototype Intellivision game that's recently been discovered."

    An absolutely fantastic video.

 

    WJI

[Walter Ives]

On 10/6/2021 at 12:55 PM, decle said:

From video: "Presumably Las Vegas Poker and Blackjack, written by David Rolfe, was Vegas I."

    Fading recollections are that "Poker & Blackjack" was always entitled "Blackjack & Poker" and that Craps and Roulette were split into "Vegas I" and "Vegas II."

 

    WJI

[Walter Ives]

On 10/6/2021 at 12:55 PM, decle said:

From video: "Pink was not a good choice given the coloring of the table. … In Vegas II making your bets is much less refined. … This makes placing your bets much more tedious. … As you can see, the animation is rather different, and it's quite difficult to see the ball. … Both the controls and the wheel animation received a major overhaul before the title hit the shelves."

    Your analysis suggests that the development process was much more formal than it actually was. Much of what appears on the screen in early versions of a game are merely placeholders for things to come. The wheel animation you see in "Vegas II" was such a placeholder. Questions of minor color choices, which affect exactly one decle of code, were often left until after the game had started to stabilize. One often didn't recognize how tedious something was until one implemented it. The "major overhaul" of the wheel animation consisted mostly of getting around to designing a new set of horizontally-oriented wheel numbers.

    There was no point to specifying a game too precisely: attempts to do so never survived first contact with reality. In practice, game programs changed on a daily basis, effecting a random walk that hopefully converged on some combination of being implementable and fun.

    Given that the Intellivision crew went through the trouble of incorporating a shifty-eyed dealer in Blackjack & Poker (another Intellivision first, for those who are counting), you cannot have missed thinking the wheel animation rather ordinary and that it would not have been out of character to do something with more pizzazz.. You will not be surprised to learn that several different people tried to come up with something better, including circular wheels and wheel segments. All were soundly defeated by the two-color monster. A tolerable rendition of a circular wheel segment was created for Intellivision III.

 

    WJI