Clint Thompson Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 I know it was mentioned in the doc that this would not work with a Stacy because of an internal hard drive already being attached to the bus but if the HDD has failed and is not detected, would this device work fine on the Stacy otherwise? Either way I'm going to get one for the STe but it would be nice to be able to interswap them on the go as needed. Seems a deal far easier than trying to take the Stacy apart. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chri O. Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 XFERRATE v1.2 speed test of my custom build hard drive 32 MB mSD. Atari 1040 Ste. 4MB TOS 1.06 rev.1 HDDRIVER 11.09 Spoiler Sample results -------------- The following results were obtained for selected systems. Values are for the Rwabs() interface only, but testing suggests that data transfer rates via the XHDI interface are essentially the same (within normal margins of error). Hard disk Data transfer Drive Interface driver rate (kb/sec) ----- --------- --------- ------------- 1040ST with: Seagate ST157N ACSI/ICD AdSCSI+ ICDBOOT (note1) 570 Seagate ST3610N ACSI/ICD AdSCSI+ HDDRIVER 7.55 1200 Seagate ST3610N ACSI/ICD AdSCSI+ ICDBOOT (note1) 1235 Seagate ST3610N ACSI/ICD Link HDDRIVER 7.55 1200 Seagate ST3610N ACSI/WB Link97 AHDI 5.0 1100 Seagate ST3610N ACSI/WB Link97 HDDRIVER 7.55 1200 IBM Ultrastar 2.16GB ACSI/WB Link97 HDDRIVER 7.55 1240 Falcon030 with: CSC 128MB 2.5" IDE HDDRIVER 7.55 60-940 (note2) Quantum GLS 170MB 2.5" IDE HDDRIVER 7.93 130-840 IBM 344MB 2.5" IDE HDDRIVER 6.0 570-880 (note2) IBM Travelstar 3.2GB IDE HDDRIVER 7.61 1650 SanDisk Ultra II (CF card) IDE HDDRIVER 10.10 2870-2880 IBM Ultrastar 2.16GB SCSI HDDRIVER 7.55 1525 IBM Ultrastar 2.16GB SCSI HDDRIVER 7.93 1510 Iomega JAZ 1GB SCSI HDDRIVER 6.0 1520 Quantum Empire 1080S 1GB SCSI HDDRIVER 7.93 1830 Seagate ST3610N SCSI HDDRIVER 7.55 1510 Seagate ST32550N SCSI HDDRIVER 7.93 1500 TT030 with: Maxtor LXT-200S SCSI AHDI 5.0 750-950 (note2) Fujitsu M2624S SCSI HDDRIVER 7.55 1300-1780 (note3) IBM Ultrastar 2.16GB ACSI/WB Link97 HDDRIVER 7.55 1240 IBM Ultrastar 2.16GB SCSI HDDRIVER 7.55 1730 Seagate ST3610N SCSI HDDRIVER 7.55 1610 Seagate ST3610N ACSI/ICD Link HDDRIVER 7.55 1260 Seagate ST3610N ACSI/WB Link97 HDDRIVER 7.55 1220 Falcon030/Nemesis 24MHz (CPU+bus) SanDisk Ultra II (CF card) IDE HDDRIVER 10.10 4360-4390 (note 4) Falcon030/CenTurbo2B with: IBM DTTA-351010 IDE HDDRIVER 7.71 4580-4600 (note4) Hades060 with: Syquest 105R SCSI HDDRIVER v7.63 1390-1420 Quantum Maverick 540S SCSI HDDRIVER v7.63 1250-2570 (note2) Quantum Fireball 2.1GB IDE HDDRIVER v7.63 5070-5270 (note4) Notes: (1) versions 5.2.0 & 6.0.4 tested (2) varies by partition, i.e. distance from disk spindle (3) in this case, the variation in effective data transfer rates was due to read retries slowing down transfers in some parts of the disk (4) this is not a misprint ? We encourage you to send us any results that you have obtained on your system, especially if you have attained higher transfer rates. We'll add them to this document and publish them on our web page if there is sufficient interest. Please email your results to: info@anodynesoftware.com. Be sure to include all of the information, as shown above. Some tentative conclusions from the above results ------------------------------------------------- 1. We can estimate the typical maximum data transfer rates of the various interfaces, as follows: Interface Max data xfer rate (kb/sec) --------- --------------------------- ACSI 1300 IDE 1700 (standard Falcon) to 5200+ (Hades060) SCSI 1600 (Falcon) to 2600 (Hades060) 2. The ICD AdSCSI+ and Link have the same performance; the Link97 is 0-3% slower, possibly due to the additional overhead of managing SCSI arbitration. 3. Both the ICD driver and HDDRIVER are significantly (about 10%) faster than AHDI. Anodyne Software ---------------- If you have Internet access, visit our web site at: http://www.anodynesoftware.com or contact us by email at: info@anodynesoftware.com Roger Burrows 29/June/2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chri O. Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 XFERRATE v1.2 xferrate.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chri O. Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 I took this short video clip while the testing was happening (debugging with serial monitor on WIN10 pc.) 20220616_202614.mp4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint Thompson Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 So I ordered this a while back and finally got my STe back. It has 1.62 and doesn’t find any drives at all with this attached. is it incompatible with such an old version of TOS? Or is something else possibly amiss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGB1718 Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 Nothing to do wit TOS, what hard disk driver are you using, what partition sizes have you created ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zibi Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 (edited) 14 hours ago, Clint Thompson said: So I ordered this a while back and finally got my STe back. It has 1.62 and doesn’t find any drives at all with this attached. is it incompatible with such an old version of TOS? Or is something else possibly amiss? Hi Clint, Great to hear that your STe is back. The SD4ST works on any tos starting from 1.00 till 2.06. So the TOS version is not a problem. (Responding to TGB1718 in most cases the SD4ST is shipped with a preimage SD card. This is purely to help those who just starting the Atari HDD journey.) Every device is thoroughly tested. The final test is done a few minutes before packaging (including SDcard). Let try to identify where the issue occurs. I would suggest starting from the beginning, Could you: 1. remove SD4ST from your Atari, 2. remove SD card for about 30 sec. 3. plug the SD card, 4. plug the power to the SD4ST The LED on the slot where the SD Card entered should blink. Could you confirm this, please? zibi Edited July 18, 2022 by zibi fixing typos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zibi Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 On 6/17/2022 at 1:50 AM, Chri O. said: XFERRATE v1.2 speed test of my custom build hard drive 32 MB mSD. Atari 1040 Ste. 4MB TOS 1.06 rev.1 HDDRIVER 11.09 Reveal hidden contents Sample results -------------- The following results were obtained for selected systems. Values are for the Rwabs() interface only, but testing suggests that data transfer rates via the XHDI interface are essentially the same (within normal margins of error). Hard disk Data transfer Drive Interface driver rate (kb/sec) ----- --------- --------- ------------- 1040ST with: Seagate ST157N ACSI/ICD AdSCSI+ ICDBOOT (note1) 570 Seagate ST3610N ACSI/ICD AdSCSI+ HDDRIVER 7.55 1200 Seagate ST3610N ACSI/ICD AdSCSI+ ICDBOOT (note1) 1235 Seagate ST3610N ACSI/ICD Link HDDRIVER 7.55 1200 Seagate ST3610N ACSI/WB Link97 AHDI 5.0 1100 Seagate ST3610N ACSI/WB Link97 HDDRIVER 7.55 1200 IBM Ultrastar 2.16GB ACSI/WB Link97 HDDRIVER 7.55 1240 Falcon030 with: CSC 128MB 2.5" IDE HDDRIVER 7.55 60-940 (note2) Quantum GLS 170MB 2.5" IDE HDDRIVER 7.93 130-840 IBM 344MB 2.5" IDE HDDRIVER 6.0 570-880 (note2) IBM Travelstar 3.2GB IDE HDDRIVER 7.61 1650 SanDisk Ultra II (CF card) IDE HDDRIVER 10.10 2870-2880 IBM Ultrastar 2.16GB SCSI HDDRIVER 7.55 1525 IBM Ultrastar 2.16GB SCSI HDDRIVER 7.93 1510 Iomega JAZ 1GB SCSI HDDRIVER 6.0 1520 Quantum Empire 1080S 1GB SCSI HDDRIVER 7.93 1830 Seagate ST3610N SCSI HDDRIVER 7.55 1510 Seagate ST32550N SCSI HDDRIVER 7.93 1500 TT030 with: Maxtor LXT-200S SCSI AHDI 5.0 750-950 (note2) Fujitsu M2624S SCSI HDDRIVER 7.55 1300-1780 (note3) IBM Ultrastar 2.16GB ACSI/WB Link97 HDDRIVER 7.55 1240 IBM Ultrastar 2.16GB SCSI HDDRIVER 7.55 1730 Seagate ST3610N SCSI HDDRIVER 7.55 1610 Seagate ST3610N ACSI/ICD Link HDDRIVER 7.55 1260 Seagate ST3610N ACSI/WB Link97 HDDRIVER 7.55 1220 Falcon030/Nemesis 24MHz (CPU+bus) SanDisk Ultra II (CF card) IDE HDDRIVER 10.10 4360-4390 (note 4) Falcon030/CenTurbo2B with: IBM DTTA-351010 IDE HDDRIVER 7.71 4580-4600 (note4) Hades060 with: Syquest 105R SCSI HDDRIVER v7.63 1390-1420 Quantum Maverick 540S SCSI HDDRIVER v7.63 1250-2570 (note2) Quantum Fireball 2.1GB IDE HDDRIVER v7.63 5070-5270 (note4) Notes: (1) versions 5.2.0 & 6.0.4 tested (2) varies by partition, i.e. distance from disk spindle (3) in this case, the variation in effective data transfer rates was due to read retries slowing down transfers in some parts of the disk (4) this is not a misprint ? We encourage you to send us any results that you have obtained on your system, especially if you have attained higher transfer rates. We'll add them to this document and publish them on our web page if there is sufficient interest. Please email your results to: info@anodynesoftware.com. Be sure to include all of the information, as shown above. Some tentative conclusions from the above results ------------------------------------------------- 1. We can estimate the typical maximum data transfer rates of the various interfaces, as follows: Interface Max data xfer rate (kb/sec) --------- --------------------------- ACSI 1300 IDE 1700 (standard Falcon) to 5200+ (Hades060) SCSI 1600 (Falcon) to 2600 (Hades060) 2. The ICD AdSCSI+ and Link have the same performance; the Link97 is 0-3% slower, possibly due to the additional overhead of managing SCSI arbitration. 3. Both the ICD driver and HDDRIVER are significantly (about 10%) faster than AHDI. Anodyne Software ---------------- If you have Internet access, visit our web site at: http://www.anodynesoftware.com or contact us by email at: info@anodynesoftware.com Roger Burrows 29/June/2018 1.7MB/s its really good result. Just curoius what Proto do you use to interface with SDcard. is it SPI or SDIO ? Well done! zibi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zibi Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 On 6/16/2022 at 5:42 PM, Clint Thompson said: I know it was mentioned in the doc that this would not work with a Stacy because of an internal hard drive already being attached to the bus but if the HDD has failed and is not detected, would this device work fine on the Stacy otherwise? Either way I'm going to get one for the STe but it would be nice to be able to interswap them on the go as needed. Seems a deal far easier than trying to take the Stacy apart. Thanks Hi Clint, SD4ST has been designed to work with common Atari ST(F/M/FM) and Atari STe hardware. It needs to be plugged exclusively to the ACSI bus. Between your HDD and ACSI bus there is an interface which converts ACSI protocol to SCSI, so even in case of HDD failure there is still interface attached to the ACSI bus. So please do not use SD4ST with the Stacy or Mega STe machines. As I have received a few enquires about using SD4ST with the 'high end' Atari machines I am considering to make improvement to make it work. I will keep you in the loop in that matter. zibi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidLittleMan Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 It should work with TT - but driver SW must support it (like PP driver does). And it works fine with my Mega STE. If worried about internal ACSI-SCSI adapter (interface) can remove it . Then need to put jumpers like on this photo: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zibi Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 21 minutes ago, ParanoidLittleMan said: It should work with TT - but driver SW must support it (like PP driver does). And it works fine with my Mega STE. If worried about internal ACSI-SCSI adapter (interface) can remove it . Then need to put jumpers like on this photo: Hi ParanoidLittleMan, Thank you for confirming, Yes, ACSI-SCSI card should be removed+jumpers added (at least for now), Thank you, thats good news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chri O. Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 10 hours ago, zibi said: 1.7MB/s its really good result. Just curoius what Proto do you use to interface with SDcard. is it SPI or SDIO ? Well done! Yes the SDIO (Secure Digital card interface). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chri O. Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 Just to add few more details this is running on Teensy 4.1 MCU and I am underclocking the MCU @450Mhz. I need to modify the hardware with 68 Ohms(?) resistors instead of the 860 Ohms resistors I have currently installed for safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chri O. Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 Well I might as well add the schematics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 (edited) With a SD4ST module attached, could I copy my game floppy disks to it to then run. And then save games to it also, thus omitting the need to even use my floppy drive. Not sure how these things operate with an ST. Edited November 16, 2022 by MarkC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zibi Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 34 minutes ago, MarkC said: With a SD4ST module attached, could I copy my game floppy disks to it to then run. And then save games to it also, thus omitting the need to even use my floppy drive. Not sure how these things operate with an ST. SD4ST presents itself as a Atari Hard Drive (as many others drives), Up to my understanding the games were written to use Floppy drives directly so even if you copy the game files to the hard disk they will still call the Floppy, The games to run from (any) Atari hard drive need to be converted. I have found some more information about that here: https://atari.8bitchip.info/fromhd2.php#DL Regards 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DarkLord Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 2 hours ago, MarkC said: With a SD4ST module attached, could I copy my game floppy disks to it to then run. And then save games to it also, thus omitting the need to even use my floppy drive. Not sure how these things operate with an ST. The best route would be to use hard disk software to format an SD-card so that it's compatible with both TOS and Windows. Not hard to do. Then go to P.Pera's website with your Windows box and download from a list of over 1600! games converted to run from mass storage. Most of these games have some enhancements like trainers, bug fixes, TOS fixes, etc. Copy them to your newly made SD-card (name it something cool like "File Taxi"!) and transfer it to your ST using the 2nd slot in your SD4ST device. Boom! Instant gaming nirvana! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 (edited) Before I got my ST, I tried Hatari on my Mac, with games downloaded from Atari Mania, which work very well. I have a load of games from way back on original disks, so trying those first.....👍 With disk based games does the SD4ST let you save your 'saves' to it, or would you still need to insert a save floppy...? Edited November 16, 2022 by MarkC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DarkLord Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 1 hour ago, MarkC said: Before I got my ST, I tried Hatari on my Mac, with games downloaded from Atari Mania, which work very well. I have a load of games from way back on original disks, so trying those first.....👍 With disk based games does the SD4ST let you save your 'saves' to it, or would you still need to insert a save floppy...? If you're running adapted games from P.Pera, Klaz or Dbug, they will save to whatever mass storage device you are using ( SD4ST, Ultrasatan, whatever), with very few exceptions (if any). HTH's. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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