PentaGo

[+-^CrossBow^-]

26 minutes ago, x=usr(1536) said:

In any event, I'm going to wait for dark before I go out and work on this thing.  It's 104°F outside right now, electricity is at a ludicrously high rate, and the one place I have to work on this is going to be an oven until I can turn on the A/C without being bankrupted.

Wait...your rates are different during the day when you use electricity? 

 

Kinda like having a single rate per KWH where I live. There is also the option to have the same monthly amount based on a average of use but I'm not a fan of that method.

 

[+x=usr(1536)]

1 hour ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Wait...your rates are different during the day when you use electricity? 

Yep.  In exchange for allowing the utility to decide when we do and don't get to run the A/C during the summer by having them control the thermostat, we get variable-rate electricity and cheaper rates in the Winter.

1 hour ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

Kinda like having a single rate per KWH where I live. There is also the option to have the same monthly amount based on a average of use but I'm not a fan of that method.

I hear you.  And I'm really not keen on the latter method, either.

[+mksmith]

11 hours ago, Trebor said:

@mksmith is likely to be able to provide better specifics on the necessary tweaks, as is needed with Arkanoid and Millie & Molly which allows those specialized builds to play with POKEY sound and minimal graphic corruption under the Concerto.

Unfortunately I think we need a fix from Fred in relation to the 128K+Ram/Pokey@450 issue as Concerto doesn't yet officially support this configuration correctly (from memory). Currently even when disabling the Pokey the screen corruption is still visible - all my released games use this format and exhibit the same.  The good news is Fred has been working again on the drivers so hopefully some good news soon on that front!

 

 

 

[+x=usr(1536)]

First, the good news: I found my last Synertek SALLY, removed the NCR CPU in the 7800, installed a socket, stuffed the Synertek into it, and everything works fine.

 

Now for the not-as-good-news: nothing changed with Pengo.  I tried all four versions of the game going back as far as the one released last November, and all exhibited the exact same behaviour that I was seeing earlier.

 

Maybe it is a Concerto issue.  I just don't know at this point, but I'm now doubting that I've got failing hardware.

 

Either way, I got the NCR CPU out of there, so not a total loss on my end.  Sorry it wasn't better news.

 

[Trebor]

20 hours ago, darryl1970 said:

Just out of curiosity, I set the project to exclude POKEY. (To hear background music, the left difficulty switch will need flipped.) If you don't mind, could you tell me if this fixes your issue. I am just curious if it's actually caused by POKEY. This isn't a definite proof, but it might help.PengoDemoNoPOKEY(7-25-2022).a78 144.13 kB · 6 downloads

PengoDemoNoPOKEY version works for me, including no graphic corruption.  Regardless of the position of the Left Difficulty Switch - TIA (left) or POKEY (right), I have background music.  When set to POKEY (right) though, often playback is distorted or completely corrupted respecting the background music - which I presume is to be expected.  TIA is fine.

 

15 hours ago, darryl1970 said:

Please Let me know if this works! PengoDemoNoDMA(7-25-2022).a78

PengoDemoNoDMA crashes like the standard build with a yellow screen and address references at the top.

[+darryl1970]

23 hours ago, mksmith said:

Unfortunately I think we need a fix from Fred in relation to the 128K+Ram/Pokey@450 issue as Concerto doesn't yet officially support this configuration correctly (from memory).

Sadly, I am using 144k with no extra RAM. No problems with Popeye, and no issues until I filled out the empty cart space a little more. Sounds like something different.

 

I set pokeysupport to off, for one build. Everybody seemed to have the same trouble with it. I don't know if it would matter that the POKEY routines are still being called in silence.

23 hours ago, mksmith said:

Currently even when disabling the Pokey the screen corruption is still visible - all my released games use this format and exhibit the same.  The good news is Fred has been working again on the drivers so hopefully some good news soon on that front!

I really hope a firmware update can fix this. Weird thing is that it's flawless on my Concerto. I remember when Concerto had sound issues with the 144k POKEY 450 games.

[+darryl1970]

@Trebor & @x=usr(1536),

 

This is an alternate build. Instead of setting POKEY to NO, I also stripped out all of the POKEY calls. The game silently calls POKEY regardless, since it doesn't hurt anything in a real cart.

 

I **THINK** I removed all of the POKEY sound. I bypassed any switching logic, so this should be a straight TIA game.

 

I am curious if this works any better. If it doesn't, I think it may not be POKEY!

 

Night!

 

PengoDemoTIA(7-27-2022).a78

[+x=usr(1536)]

11 minutes ago, darryl1970 said:

@Trebor & @x=usr(1536),

 

This is an alternate build. Instead of setting POKEY to NO, I also stripped out all of the POKEY calls. The game silently calls POKEY regardless, since it doesn't hurt anything in a real cart.

 

I **THINK** I removed all of the POKEY sound. I bypassed any switching logic, so this should be a straight TIA game.

 

I am curious if this works any better. If it doesn't, I think it may not be POKEY!

 

Night!

 

PengoDemoTIA(7-27-2022).a78 144.13 kB · 1 download

Sorry it's not better news, but I'm seeing no change with this build and difficulty switch position doesn't seem to have an effect one way or the other.  At least that rules out POKEY as the cause.

[Trebor]

10 hours ago, darryl1970 said:

I am curious if this works any better. If it doesn't, I think it may not be POKEY!

PengoDemoTIA(7-27-2022).a78 144.13 kB · 3 downloads

For my Serial A3 and AT84 consoles, this works just as fine as the "PengoDemoNoPOKEY":

 

-No graphical corruptions.

-TIA background music is present without issue.

 

The only difference is the difficulty switch has no impact (as expected) with the "PengoDemoTIA" build.  Under the "PengoDemoNoPOKEY", when the left difficulty switch is set to the right, POKEY background music is present but playback is distorted or completely corrupt.

[+darryl1970]

5 minutes ago, Trebor said:

For my Serial A3 and AT84 consoles, this works just as fine as the "PengoDemoNoPOKEY":

 

-No graphical corruptions.

-TIA background music is present without issue.

 

The only difference is the difficulty switch has no impact (as expected) with the "PengoDemoTIA" build.  Under the "PengoDemoNoPOKEY", when the left difficulty switch is set to the right, POKEY background music is present but playback is distorted or completely corrupt.

The distortion makes sense, because it was trying to silence the TIA when set to POKEY. It was playing the note and muting it, which caused distortion. I stripped the POKEY out to make it "pure". Could be useful for a POKEY-only release.  I think the TIA music is quite a feat for TIA. In stripping everything, I tried to cover all the options like POKEY was never considered.

 

Did you have corruption that this version fixed, or has your Concerto always played nicely with the game? I can't remember, so I do not know if removing POKEY fixed this for you. I do not have any issues on my Concerto.

[Trebor]

13 hours ago, darryl1970 said:

Did you have corruption that this version fixed, or has your Concerto always played nicely with the game? I can't remember, so I do not know if removing POKEY fixed this for you. I do not have any issues on my Concerto.

Earlier versions from 2021 never had graphic corruption, but usually wound up crashing to a yellow screen with address references at the top within several seconds to a minute or two of playing at most.

 

PengoDemo(7-24-2022a) (AKA 'standard build') = Crashes right after game loads - yellow screen address references at the top.

PengoDemoNoDMA (7-25-2022) = Crashes right after game loads - yellow screen address references at the top.

 

PengoDemoNoPOKEY(7-25-2022) = No graphic corruption and no crash.
PengoDemoTIA(7-27-2022) = No graphic corruption and no crash.

[+ZeroPage Homebrew]

ZeroPage Homebrew is playing the Exclusive Final Version of Penta / Pengo on tomorrow's stream LIVE on Twitch, hope you can join us!

 

Fri Jul 29, 2022 @ 6PM PT | 9PM ET | 1AM GMT+1Day

WATCH LIVE: https://www.twitch.tv/zeropagehomebrew/
WATCH LATER: https://youtube.com/zeropagehomebrew/

 

Games:

• Penta (Pengo) (2022 Exclusive Final Version | 7800) by 20th St Arcade / Darryl Guenther @darryl1970, Paul Lay @playsoft & Pat Brady @Pat Brady (Music & Music Engine)
• Jacks or Better (2022 WIP | 7800) by Steve Engelhardt @Atarius Maximus
• Oozy the Goo - Gaiden (2022 WIP Update | 7800) by VHZC Games / Vladimir Zuñiga @vhzc

After Dark:

• Pressure Gauge (The 2600 High Score Showdown S6 | 2600) by John K Harvey @Propane13

(WATCH IN 1080P60 FOR BEST QUALITY)

 

[+darryl1970]

I don't expect this to change much, but I made a couple minor tweaks. I doubt it will help the graphic distortion on Concerto, but it MAY.

 

1. I removed "adjustvisible 1 13". It was copied from Popeye, and it helped with the screen shake. I do not need that, and I do not feel that I need to be forcing the top and bottom screen routines for Pengo. @RevEng, does this sound like something I shouldn't be calling?

 

2. A lot of my screen memory calls were checking collision on the 14th row. I was also using 40 14 as parameters when poking to screen memory. It probably won't make a big difference, but I think it could help performance slightly when in the 20+ levels.

 

Let me know if anything changes. Thanks, Darryl

 

Pengo_Demo(7-29-2022a).a78

[RevEng]

2 minutes ago, darryl1970 said:

1. I removed "adjustvisible 1 13". It was copied from Popeye, and it helped with the screen shake. I do not need that, and I do not feel that I need to be forcing the top and bottom screen routines for Pengo. @RevEng, does this sound like something I shouldn't be calling?

It doesn't hurt things, per se. There are a couple reasons to call adjustvisible...

1. It informs 7800basic that part of the screen won't glitch if it's updated during the visible frame. This gives some cycles back to the game-logic part of your main game loop.
2. You can use the new screen top or bottom to trigger your own topscreenroutine/bottomscreenroutine interrupt code.

If you are using the whole screen for display, then calling adjustvisible will potentially cause occasional flickering/glitching during sprite updates in top or bottom zones.

[+darryl1970]

3 hours ago, RevEng said:

It doesn't hurt things, per se. There are a couple reasons to call adjustvisible...

1. It informs 7800basic that part of the screen won't glitch if it's updated during the visible frame. This gives some cycles back to the game-logic part of your main game loop.
2. You can use the new screen top or bottom to trigger your own topscreenroutine/bottomscreenroutine interrupt code.

If you are using the whole screen for display, then calling adjustvisible will potentially cause occasional flickering/glitching during sprite updates in top or bottom zones.

So, I should add then 1 13 back into the game? The POKEY routine is called from top screen.

 

I am using a user interrupt to call my custom joystick routine. It enables one stick for both players as an option. I also tie both buttons into one press in this game.

 

Trying to think of anything that I am doing, which may contribute to the graphic glitches seen on a couple Concerto setups.

 

[RevEng]

1 hour ago, darryl1970 said:

So, I should add then 1 13 back into the game? The POKEY routine is called from top screen.

 

I am using a user interrupt to call my custom joystick routine. It enables one stick for both players as an option. I also tie both buttons into one press in this game.

 

Trying to think of anything that I am doing, which may contribute to the graphic glitches seen on a couple Concerto setups.

 

Sorry, my original text was incomplete - I was writing during a short work break. #2 should have read  "You can use the new screen top or bottom to trigger your own topscreenroutine/bottomscreenroutine interrupt code to change the display colors or modes". The top/bottom interrupts run, even if you haven't adjusted their default position.

 

If the glitches is the 320 mode text being a bit snowy, I believe it's a matter of your strings being in ROM, and concerto is having a bit of speed trouble fetching the strings at Maria access speeds. Copying the strings to RAM and plotchar'ing the ram would do it. Or you can wait for Concerto firmware improvements.

[+darryl1970]

Here's a version compiled with the updated BASIC and forced at $450.

 

Pengo_Demo(7-30-2022a).a78

[+x=usr(1536)]

1 hour ago, darryl1970 said:

Here's a version compiled with the updated BASIC and forced at $450.

 

Pengo_Demo(7-30-2022a).a78 144.13 kB · 0 downloads

Still no change, unfortunately.

[+darryl1970]

1 hour ago, x=usr(1536) said:

Still no change, unfortunately.

That is a bummer, because it appears that it resolved the yellow screen issue that @RevEng was experiencing with the latest Concerto firmware.

 

I am getting a little confused. I think @Trebor was having the crash, but he wasn't having the graphic glitches on the TIA only. It will be interesting to see what his results are.

 

Everything runs perfectly on my Concerto, using firmware 0.95. I do not want to change anything about my Concerto at this time.

 

--Darryl

 

PS. Have you tried a different power supply? Just curious, since you swapped processors and stuff. Would be kind of funny if that was an issue.

[Trebor]

36 minutes ago, darryl1970 said:

 I think @Trebor was having the crash, but he wasn't having the graphic glitches on the TIA only. 

Correct.

 

3 hours ago, darryl1970 said:

Here's a version compiled with the updated BASIC and forced at $450.

Pengo_Demo(7-30-2022a).a78 144.13 kB · 1 download

37 minutes ago, darryl1970 said:

It will be interesting to see what his results are.

No crash and no graphic corruption.  TIA background music is perfect. 

 

POKEY background music is present, but distorted as it was earlier under the PengoDemoTIA(7-27-2022) build.  I've attached a ~3 1/2 minute playthrough, very rough audio clip, as an example.

Pengo_Demo(7-30-2022a)-POKEYSOUND.mp3

[+x=usr(1536)]

Quote

Everything runs perfectly on my Concerto, using firmware 0.95. I do not want to change anything about my Concerto at this time.

Let me see if I can do a rollback on the firmware to 0.95 later today and I'll get back to you with the results.  0.96 Daily Build 7822 is currently installed, and it just occurred to me that this is one thing that I haven't tried to eliminate.

Quote

PS. Have you tried a different power supply? Just curious, since you swapped processors and stuff. Would be kind of funny if that was an issue.

Unfortunately, I only have one PSU for the 7800.  It does meter out OK as far as voltage goes, but obviously that doesn't account for current draw.  What I can say is that this has happened with both CPUs installed, so I'm less inclined to think it's a PSU issue (unless it's failing and this is just an early, albeit weird, sign of that).

[+darryl1970]

@x=usr(1536) .... I did find one HUGE error in my previous build. Although I updated Matt's VSCODE plugin to the latest version, my compiler was still pointed to an older version of 7800Basic.

 

This is compiled correctly. Not sure that it will help, but the previous "a" version had serious flaws, which even cause DF to crash. The compiler didn't understand set pokeysupport $450, so I think the end result was a confused build.

 

PengtaGo_Demo(7-30-2022b).a78

[Trebor]

17 hours ago, darryl1970 said:

This is compiled correctly. Not sure that it will help, but the previous "a" version had serious flaws, which even cause DF to crash. The compiler didn't understand set pokeysupport $450, so I think the end result was a confused build.

PengtaGo_Demo(7-30-2022b).a78 144.13 kB · 1 download

Definitely made progress as now "POKEY Detected" message is stated. 

 

However, the background POKEY music still sounds distorted, the same way as previously noted and demonstrated in the respective MP3 file.

[+x=usr(1536)]

3 hours ago, darryl1970 said:

@x=usr(1536) .... I did find one HUGE error in my previous build. Although I updated Matt's VSCODE plugin to the latest version, my compiler was still pointed to an older version of 7800Basic.

 

This is compiled correctly. Not sure that it will help, but the previous "a" version had serious flaws, which even cause DF to crash. The compiler didn't understand set pokeysupport $450, so I think the end result was a confused build.

 

PengtaGo_Demo(7-30-2022b).a78 144.13 kB · 3 downloads

I still have the horizontal Yars, but am now getting the POKEY DETECTED message.  However there's no POKEY background music.  It's progress!

[+darryl1970]

@Trebor & @x=usr(1536),

 

Have either of you tried Penta with the latest firmware? I am kind of afraid of "fixing" what isn't broken on my card.

 

I could try another POKEY $800 build if that helps. (The attached is still $450. it will take more time to redo the $800 stuff.) I don't know if sharing the Penta demo with Fred would help him.

 

I changed the banner to "PentaGo". I started naming the file that, and the name grew on me. It's weird that the game is "Penta", and the character's name is Pento. That is how the arcade bootleg was though. It didn't have a banner up at the top though.

  

PentaGo_Demo(8-11-2022a).a78