+Muddyfunster Posted January 22, 2022 Author Share Posted January 22, 2022 I've been working on Keystone Kapers a bit more over this last week. I've had so much fun with this port (more than I expected truth be told). I think in terms of the game itself, it's now really close to being complete. In fact, I could call it done now and I'd be fairly happy, but there are a couple of things that just need that little bit more of a polish and rounding out and the perfectionist in me won't let that go Firstly, The way the double high bouncing balls work, I'm not happy the way that currently works so I'm going to rework it. Right now, I think the player has to adjust too much between the two balls and it's jarring when compared to how the other obstacles work, which seems more fluid. I know why they aren't "right" but now I just need to adjust it . Secondly, I'm thinking about how "ending the game" works. I don't think the other versions of Keystone Kapers have an "end", the game just keeps going until it's basically so fast that it's unplayable and the player runs out of lives. I'm ok with that (as that's how a lot of games historically were) but I'm not sure I like it. It seems a bit arbitrary. An alternative would be perhaps after a few of the super hard levels, (talking 16-20) to give the player a nice "completion" score reward but then send him back to level 1, but remove the ability to earn extra lives. I've never got past lvl 20 on any of the sources i've used for my adaptation and I'm also cognisant of wanting to stay "true" to the original sources. Not sure which to go with yet, would be interested to hear people's views on "game endings". 8 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/326855-keystone-koppers-done/page/5/#findComment-4990085 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Back Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 I have to say that I enjoyed the scenes in the demo. Having a sort of ending scene would be cool and rewarding and create a nice end cap to the other scenes. You could always put in the ending as you said and then have it restart at the beginning or just continue until it reaches the impossible point. I vote yes for an ending as you already have other fun scenes and it would make sense to me. 3 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/326855-keystone-koppers-done/page/5/#findComment-4990161 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Brady Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 6 hours ago, Muddyfunster said: Secondly, I'm thinking about how "ending the game" works. I don't think the other versions of Keystone Kapers have an "end", the game just keeps going until it's basically so fast that it's unplayable and the player runs out of lives. I'm ok with that (as that's how a lot of games historically were) but I'm not sure I like it. It seems a bit arbitrary. An alternative would be perhaps after a few of the super hard levels, (talking 16-20) to give the player a nice "completion" score reward but then send him back to level 1, but remove the ability to earn extra lives. I've never got past lvl 20 on any of the sources i've used for my adaptation and I'm also cognisant of wanting to stay "true" to the original sources. Not sure which to go with yet, would be interested to hear people's views on "game endings". I know some people think ports should strive to recreate the original as closely as possible, sometimes to the point of replicating bugs. That's a viable position, but my opinion is: preserve the gameplay and vibe, but don't be afraid to tweak the details. Trust your judgement. You're not going to do something like start Space Invaders with an empty screen, or draw Pac-Man's mouth as parallel lines. 3 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/326855-keystone-koppers-done/page/5/#findComment-4990383 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+sramirez2008 Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 4 hours ago, Silver Back said: I have to say that I enjoyed the scenes in the demo. Having a sort of ending scene would be cool and rewarding and create a nice end cap to the other scenes. I concur and could not have said it better myself. @Muddyfunster I feel you’re version strikes a good balance between old and new and really like this interpretation of Keystone Kapers. 3 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/326855-keystone-koppers-done/page/5/#findComment-4990399 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 I like the notion of providing a rewarding "ending" and then looping back to the beginning with it harder/faster. Somewhat in the vein of how Commando works under the 7800 and other ports. 7 hours ago, Muddyfunster said: An alternative would be perhaps after a few of the super hard levels, (talking 16-20) to give the player a nice "completion" score reward but then send him back to level 1, but remove the ability to earn extra lives. Level 20 seems like a good/fair challenge for that completion "end" accomplishment. Perhaps the ending could suggest "cleaned up this city, let's move to the next". 4 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/326855-keystone-koppers-done/page/5/#findComment-4990432 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Muddyfunster Posted February 2, 2022 Author Share Posted February 2, 2022 Thanks guys I love these ideas and I'm prototyping an ending then back to start but without the ability to earn extra lives. Then I just need to fiddle with the balls a bit and I think we're as good as done (apart from a deep dive for testing to make sure there are no bugs lurking). 8 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/326855-keystone-koppers-done/page/5/#findComment-4996971 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+sramirez2008 Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 @Muddyfunster, @Synthpopalooza, @mksmith and Bethany Hill Congratulations on winning Atari 7800 Best WIP (Port) for Keystone Kapers. 10 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/326855-keystone-koppers-done/page/5/#findComment-5004391 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atariboy2600 Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 NICE wonder if I could do a box art for this one as Im doing stuff for Dan Kitchen^^ 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/326855-keystone-koppers-done/page/5/#findComment-5004486 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Muddyfunster Posted April 16, 2022 Author Share Posted April 16, 2022 On 2/14/2022 at 2:43 AM, Atariboy2600 said: NICE wonder if I could do a box art for this one as Im doing stuff for Dan Kitchen^^ I'm not sure what's happening with releasing this one yet but thanks for offering I will also be changing the title slightly : The latest (unreleased) build fixes one or two little bugs that were found and adds in an end of game sequence after level 20 before setting the player back on level 1 but without the ability to earn anymore extra lives. This is pretty much done. I'll probably release a final PAL compatible demo in a few weeks. Would have got this done sooner but I've been a bit sidetracked with a new project. 11 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/326855-keystone-koppers-done/page/5/#findComment-5042106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Muddyfunster Posted May 27, 2022 Author Share Posted May 27, 2022 So I had a few hours free the last few days to tweak the balls (the double high balls). I ended up rewriting a chunk of the code that handles the balls, especially focusing on the high bounce balls (single and double). They now bounce a couple of pixel higher and are more consistent in how they move, with each ball having a unique timer. This means they feel "fairer" for the player to tackle and not as janky as the first version. This latest build will be tested thoroughly and if it's all good I'll release a final demo (and a PAL demo!). Then I think Keystone Koppers is done 10 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/326855-keystone-koppers-done/page/5/#findComment-5064330 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cebus Capucinis Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Muddyfunster said: So I had a few hours free the last few days to tweak the balls Looking great! Super excited for this one! 9 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/326855-keystone-koppers-done/page/5/#findComment-5064355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Muddyfunster Posted June 18, 2022 Author Share Posted June 18, 2022 Little update, The last round of testing went well but highlighted a couple of things that needed a little tweak, polish and balance. Tweaking, polishing and balancing is complete and back for a final test through, for what I hope is the Release Candidate! Demos (PAL and NTSC) will follow once RC is signed off. 10 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/326855-keystone-koppers-done/page/5/#findComment-5075315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Muddyfunster Posted July 10, 2022 Author Share Posted July 10, 2022 Release Candidate testing is now complete. A few additional things were tweaked and adjusted, and a couple of issues were eliminated. @ZeroPage Homebrew will be streaming the Release Candidate 4 build on this coming Friday (15th July). I'll then make a public demo available of this version for folks to download and try out (most likely Saturday 16th) Huge thankyou to @sramirez2008 @-^CrossBow^- & @Trebor for providing tons of feedback and suggestions and for helping to test the various builds over many months! ?️? 8 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/326855-keystone-koppers-done/page/5/#findComment-5086079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Back Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 My sister bought a 7800 almost exclusively to play this version. We grew up with the 7800 and we played a lot of 2600 keystone Kapers so this is exciting for us! Thanks for doing it! Oh and of course she got 2600 Keystone Kapers to hold her over until this one releases lol 5 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/326855-keystone-koppers-done/page/5/#findComment-5086163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ZeroPage Homebrew Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 ZeroPage Homebrew is playing the Exclusive Final Version of Keystone Koppers on tomorrow's stream LIVE on Twitch, hope you can join us! Fri Jul 15, 2022 @ 6PM PT | 9PM ET | 1AM GMT+1Day WATCH: https://www.twitch.tv/zeropagehomebrew/ Games: Keystone Koppers (2022 Exclusive Final Version | 7800) by MuddyVision / Lewis Hill @Muddyfunster (Code, GFX, SFX), Bobby Clark @Synthpopalooza (Pokey Music), Matt Smith @mksmith (Music Support), Bethany Hill (Additional Artwork) A.R.T.I. - Archeological Rescue Team International (2022 Exclusive WIP Update | 7800) by MuddyVision / Lewis Hill @Muddyfunster Gorf Arcade (2022 Exclusive WIP Full Version Update | 2600) by Champ Games / John Champeau @johnnywc (Coding & Design), Nathan Strum @Nathan Strum (Graphics & Voice), Bob Decrescenzo @PacManPlus (Music & Sounds) (WATCH AT 1080P60 FOR BEST QUALITY) 5 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/326855-keystone-koppers-done/page/5/#findComment-5088626 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Muddyfunster Posted July 16, 2022 Author Share Posted July 16, 2022 Thanks @ZeroPage Homebrew for showing the release candidate for Keystone Koppers on the stream on Friday! and also thanks to everyone for their kind words and feedback about the project. I've added here the latest demo Release Candidate demo build, Release Candidate 4 (RC5 for PAL). There are three versions available, depending on how you choose to play the demo: Regular Version - Works on real hardware with Dragonfly, A7800 and 7800 MiSTer core Keystone_Koppers_RC4_demo.a78 BUP Version - Works on BUP System (Hiscore saving is disabled) Keystone_Kapers_RC4_demo_bup_systemv2.a78 Concerto Version - Compiled to work on Concerto (hopefully!) Keystone_Koppers_RC4_demo_concerto.a78 PAL DEMO - The PAL demo is designed for use with Dragonfly, A7800 & 7800 MiSter core. I'll add a Concerto version later. Keystone_Kapers_RC5PALdemo.bas.a78 Please make sure you grab the right version for your intended platform. The previous version had some graphics artifacts on Concerto on the title screen text and instructions screen, I don't have a Concerto so I can't test. Keystone Koppers RC4 Demo Kompatibility : This new demo works fine on Dragonfly (real hardware), MiSTer, A7800 V5+, BUPSYSTEM, and Argon. Concerto has minor text artrifacts on the title screen but the game plays fine. Prosystem has significant glitches so expect problems on ProSystem based emulators like ProSystem, JS7800 (emulator deficiency). Changes : The version of Keystone Koppers has a lot of changes compared to the earlier demo and I think the game is now complete (unless some huge previously undiscovered issue turns up!). This demo is limited to 12 levels. The full version has 20 levels and extend play beyond that with end sequences etc. Kouch Kompliant! Some graphics tweaks to add counter objects etc. UP and DOWN change start level LEFT and RIGHT (and Select) change the music mode. (added an extra "music off" mode for people with no taste!) You can now use either button to jump 30+ bug fixes, tweaks and gameplay balances. I hope everyone has as much fun playing the demo as I've had making it. If you find any bugs or have any feedback, please do post and let me know. The aim is to have Keystone Koppers available later in the year, hopefully at PRGE. Keystone_Koppers_RC4_demo.a78 Keystone_Kapers_RC4_demo_bup_systemv2.a78 Keystone_Koppers_RC4_demo_concerto.a78 Keystone_Kapers_RC5PALdemo.bas.a78 12 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/326855-keystone-koppers-done/page/5/#findComment-5089390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Muddyfunster Posted July 16, 2022 Author Share Posted July 16, 2022 I updated the BUPsystem demo to V2 as there was a problem with it crashing, if you were fast and grabbed the earlier version, please re-download the V2 version for BUP to avoid issues. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/326855-keystone-koppers-done/page/5/#findComment-5089421 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Muddyfunster Posted July 16, 2022 Author Share Posted July 16, 2022 Bernie might be in a spot of bother... 8 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/326855-keystone-koppers-done/page/5/#findComment-5089433 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 2 hours ago, Muddyfunster said: The previous version had some graphics artifacts on Concerto on the title screen text and instructions screen, I don't have a Concerto so I can't test. Just a heads-up/FYI for those that are leveraging the Concerto and what may be experienced: Running the latest firmware, 0.96 daily build 7822: 1. Serial A3 console: The aforementioned graphic artifacts on title screen text and instructions screen, typically at the beginning of the line. No POKEY music, TIA sound effects only. Inevitably, it will crash to a yellow screen at some point. 2. Serial AT84 console: Same as the A3 console (Graphic artifacts on title screen text and instructions screen, typically at the beginning of the line. No POKEY music, TIA sound effects only), without the ultimate crash, it plays through fine. The prior firmware, hbios_concerto_0.95noflash, had greater compatibility, less issues, under the Serial A3 console, including the presence of POKEY music with the aforementioned graphics artifacts for homebrew POKEY@450 games with ROM images 'designed' for the Concerto. However, the same firmware performed horribly, usually would not start a game at all, under the Serial AT84 console. Of course, YMMV. I have placed the above results to the Concerto firmware thread to discourage weighing down this thread with Concerto discussion, and ensure the information is placed where it can be of the most benefit to improve Concerto compatibility. 2 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/326855-keystone-koppers-done/page/5/#findComment-5089450 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bhall408 Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 On 7/16/2022 at 8:56 AM, Muddyfunster said: Untested on Argon, but the previous version was fine so I do not expect issues. Tested just now - works in current public version. (Picture below running on a Microsoft Surface Duo 2) Once we post the next update, we will have switched to using a7800 as the core! We're currently testing/debugging that integration. That gets us support for all the latest bank switching formats, ability for us to support controller 2 (so we can enable twin stick mode for T:ME Salvo) and other goodies. 1 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/326855-keystone-koppers-done/page/5/#findComment-5089926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Muddyfunster Posted July 17, 2022 Author Share Posted July 17, 2022 Thanks for the update Brian! Looks great! 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/326855-keystone-koppers-done/page/5/#findComment-5089932 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+sramirez2008 Posted July 17, 2022 Share Posted July 17, 2022 On 7/16/2022 at 10:38 AM, Muddyfunster said: Bernie might be in a spot of bother... I love Bernie, but I really want that Kopper.? 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/326855-keystone-koppers-done/page/5/#findComment-5089949 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Muddyfunster Posted July 18, 2022 Author Share Posted July 18, 2022 That one was just a prototype that Mrs H did. I need to persuade her to do a limited run for the box release! 7 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/326855-keystone-koppers-done/page/5/#findComment-5090313 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+sramirez2008 Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 4 hours ago, Muddyfunster said: That one was just a prototype that Mrs H did. I need to persuade her to do a limited run for the box release! Yes please! You can count on one sale and I’m sure I wouldn’t be the only one. 4 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/326855-keystone-koppers-done/page/5/#findComment-5090469 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atariboy2600 Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 SO far here's the early WIP pencil art for the box art on this game. 8 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/326855-keystone-koppers-done/page/5/#findComment-5091583 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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