Keystone Koppers [Done]

[7800Knight]

Cool!  Now if we could get Activision titles Private Eye or Pressure Cooker on the 7800.

[Trebor]

14 hours ago, 7800Knight said:

...Private Eye...

Thank you for mentioning that game.

 

Ever since I saw the intermission with the cop driving, I couldn't think of the name of the game that intermission scene reminded me of - particularly the jumpy, shocks are shot, style animation of the car.  That is it.

[+Muddyfunster]

15 hours ago, knievel1 said:

Played on Open Emu. Love it. 

5200 is my favorite version but this has the potential to be even greater. 

Be kool to see the Activision classics on 7800.

Thanks for your hard work!

Thanks for your kind comments and feedback, I don't have a Mac so haven't been able to test Open Emu, although I think Open Emu uses Prosystem? Glad to hear it works!

 

 

 

 

[+Muddyfunster]

14 hours ago, 7800Knight said:

Cool!  Now if we could get Activision titles Private Eye or Pressure Cooker on the 7800.

Pressure Cooker is another of my all time favourite games. Not too familiar with Private Eye, I'll have to check that one out.

 

[+bhall408]

2 hours ago, Muddyfunster said:

I don't have a Mac so haven't been able to test Open Emu, although I think Open Emu uses Prosystem? Glad to hear it works!

It is plays on OpenEmu, but I did see a graphic glitch with the robber (see attached). This was with OpenEmu 2.3.3 (which uses ProSystem 1.4.2) on a MacBook Air running Mac OS 10.14.6.

 

 

[+Muddyfunster]

4 minutes ago, bhall408 said:

It is plays on OpenEmu, but I did see a graphic glitch with the robber (see attached). This was with OpenEmu 2.3.3 (which uses ProSystem 1.4.2) on a MacBook Air running Mac OS 10.14.6.

 

 

Thanks, the same glitch is present when running on the PC version of ProSystem and also JS7800 which I think is based on ProSystem.

[Trebor]

On 11/22/2021 at 12:32 PM, bhall408 said:

It is plays on OpenEmu, but I did see a graphic glitch with the robber (see attached). This was with OpenEmu 2.3.3 (which uses ProSystem 1.4.2) on a MacBook Air running Mac OS 10.14.6.

 

On 11/22/2021 at 12:38 PM, Muddyfunster said:

Thanks, the same glitch is present when running on the PC version of ProSystem and also JS7800 which I think is based on ProSystem.

Indeed.  It is an emulator deficiency.  Although JS7800 has improved in many ways over the last ProSystem PC release with updates to the core, this is not one of them. 

 

The defect is not present under original console hardware via Concerto, MiSTer FPGA, or emulators with better accuracy, such as A7800 and BupSystem.

[ClassicGMR]

21 hours ago, 7800Knight said:

Pressure Cooker

Yeeeesssssss

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I keep wondering why no one has tried for a new 7800 specific version of Star Master, or Star Raiders, or Phaser Patrol? I imagine graphically and with a pokey or even something better, quite a lot could be done with a game like that. 

 

I need to try Pressure Cooker again. I just couldn't quite get into it I guess in the past when I've tried to play it.

 

[+sramirez2008]

I’ve never given Pressure Cooker a fair shot.  Guess I need to spend some time with it.

[+ZeroPage Homebrew]

5 hours ago, sramirez2008 said:

I’ve never given Pressure Cooker a fair shot.  Guess I need to spend some time with it.

It's very challenging and you have to be quite accurate with where you are when you do certain moves, it has a fairly low tolerance for errors. It took two attempts and quite a bit of work to get that patch on the 2600 if I remember correctly.

 

- James

[+Muddyfunster]

Just a little update : I'll have a PAL version of the demo available sometime next week with correct PAL colours and speed.

 

[edit] So the PAL version will be along "soon"^tm 

 

No real issue other than finding time to bring it together.

 

[+Muddyfunster]

A little January update on Keystone Kapers.

 

@Synthpopalooza made nice little ragtime version of the "Atari Today" theme which I've now added for the Atari Age splash screen.

 

• Many of the timings have been tweaked slightly (affects all levels, bit more specifically levels 8+). A few bugs have been squished also.
• All of the missing money bags / loot cases have been added. There are now the expected 5 per level. 
• The really challenging post level 10 obstacles are in (double trollies etc)
• Added a Music off option.

 

Still a few things to do and fix and lots of testing to be done, but this one is probably around 90% done.

 

When the PAL version is done, I'll probably release another demo.

 

 

[+Muddyfunster]

One of those "Can I find a way.." moments.

 

I didn't intend to have the items on the counters feature like the 5200 version (and C64 version) but I got to tinkering with that this afternoon and then got into that "I bet I can find a way to add that" mindsets.

 

At this stage I'm quite palette locked so I needed to work with what's already in the palette so nothing extravagant like 160B (don't have the space), no bright colours (I did a broken test on that and it was distracting) so I had to shoehorn it into an existing tileset and existing palette choices. I found a subdued / flat look worked and wasn't distracting for the player from the main obstacles. Too much detail and they might be mistaken for obstacles. 

 

I ended up managing to find enough graphics space (just) to squeeze in a few more tiles.

 

Anyway, I think it works ok, but I might make the shelf ball a bit bigger. Be interested to see what folks think.

 

 

 

[+ZeroPage Homebrew]

2 hours ago, Muddyfunster said:

Anyway, I think it works ok, but I might make the shelf ball a bit bigger. Be interested to see what folks think.

Very nice! The simple black and brown colours should keep them from being distracting, great addition!

 

- James

[Silver Back]

I agree. I think black and brown is fine. It’s a nice extra detail but not at all distracting. I like the little touches. Thanks for all the hard work!

[+sramirez2008]

I thought the empty counters looked fine...until now.  This extra bit really makes a difference and I agree with the others, its not distracting.?

4 hours ago, Muddyfunster said:

but I might make the shelf ball a bit bigger.

I think it should be a bit bigger.

[+Muddyfunster]

19 hours ago, sramirez2008 said:

I think it should be a bit bigger.

The balls have been embiggened.

 

[+sramirez2008]

Looks great?

 

10 year old me..."ha...ha...ha!  Embiggened balls!" 

[RevEng]

Cromulent work, Lewis. Cromulent work.

[Trebor]

Evidently, our British and Canadian friends lived in Springfield, Oregon at some point.

[+Propane13]

Hey there!

 

I'm definitely late to the party, but finally got around to trying out the game yesterday.  First of all, let me say that it is a wonderful port.  I had a lot of fun playing it; the music is superb, and the controls are spot-on.  I really like that you keep tweaking it to make it better, and I'm looking forward to picking up a finished product some day.  It's fantastic.

 

I wanted to ask about one gameplay-related feature that always bugged me about the 2600 version.  Apparently, no matter what, taking the bottom-left escalator is a waste of time.  It is always in your best interest to take the elevator to the second floor, run right, and catch the robber.  I was curious if your port is going to stay true to the classic, or if there's potentially some sort of way to incentivize taking that escalator (besides points).  I'm not sure if that's anything you ever thought about, but that corner has always felt wasteful to me.  Maybe if there was a speed powerup or something over there, or the elevator was out-of-order on some levels-- I don't know.  I recognize this is a nitpicky thing about the original, but thought I'd bring it up as an enthusiast since you pretty much have a blank canvas to work with.

 

My second question-- when you're on the escalator screen with the Robber, in the 2600 version the Robber is automatically bumped to the next level, setting you behind just a little bit and making the rooftop chase a little more exciting.  I'm guessing this was due to a sprite limitation.  Honestly, I think I like your implementation better as it's more organic, but I thought I'd ask a bit more about it; I wasn't sure if it has any impacts to gameplay.  Granted, I've only ever played the 2600 version, so maybe this is the norm on other ports.

 

Thanks again for a wonderful implementation of an old classic.

[+Muddyfunster]

On 1/17/2022 at 2:36 PM, Propane13 said:

Hey there!

 

I'm definitely late to the party, but finally got around to trying out the game yesterday.  First of all, let me say that it is a wonderful port.  I had a lot of fun playing it; the music is superb, and the controls are spot-on.  I really like that you keep tweaking it to make it better, and I'm looking forward to picking up a finished product some day.  It's fantastic.

Better late than never! Thanks for the comments on the game, glad you liked the demo.

 

On 1/17/2022 at 2:36 PM, Propane13 said:

I wanted to ask about one gameplay-related feature that always bugged me about the 2600 version.  Apparently, no matter what, taking the bottom-left escalator is a waste of time.  It is always in your best interest to take the elevator to the second floor, run right, and catch the robber.  I was curious if your port is going to stay true to the classic, or if there's potentially some sort of way to incentivize taking that escalator (besides points).  I'm not sure if that's anything you ever thought about, but that corner has always felt wasteful to me.  Maybe if there was a speed powerup or something over there, or the elevator was out-of-order on some levels-- I don't know.  I recognize this is a nitpicky thing about the original, but thought I'd bring it up as an enthusiast since you pretty much have a blank canvas to work with.

Good question.

 

My version isn't a direct port of any of the versions (2600, 5200 / 8bit / Coleco / C64) so I'd call it more of an adaptation.

 

I've kept the core game play and the common bits from all versions, but where the versions differ,  I've used my own judgement on what to retain. If something "works" I've kept it. In some cases I've not followed any of the versions, but have just done my own interpretation (eg. merit bonus increases for completing a level - my version doesn't follow any of the other versions - but they don't really follow each other..)

 

Some versions had "features" that we due to limitations for example. So based on those comments and thoughts, the elevators in this version do start randomly in different places, each time a level is restarted. You can wait for the elevator as you noted and miss out that bottom left corner of the map but then you also miss out the money bag from that side (small score loss). As the elevator is random in it's starting position, if you are unlucky, while you will still get to the upper floor, you will do so with much less time and therefore less bonus when you catch the krook and this game is all about the scores  

 

So the decision is, wait and have it easier for less score, or go for it and get a higher score, or maybe something in between.

 

Elevator timings are on my tweak list as something to take a look before the next demo is released at but I think it unlikely that I'll make any big changes. The elevator moves more slowly when you are not in it, maybe that's something to look at again.

 

Plus I do want to keep this as an adaptation / port rather than "Keystone Kapers +" (as tempting as that is!). I did consider some changes  to the gameplay like speed ups, clock stopping pickups etc, but I felt that while some of those could enhance the gameplay they would also bring in new balancing considerations and ultimately it moved away from what the original vision was, which was to bring a good version of Keystone Kapers to the 7800, but with graphics and sound enhancements where possible.

 

On 1/17/2022 at 2:36 PM, Propane13 said:

My second question-- when you're on the escalator screen with the Robber, in the 2600 version the Robber is automatically bumped to the next level, setting you behind just a little bit and making the rooftop chase a little more exciting.  I'm guessing this was due to a sprite limitation.  Honestly, I think I like your implementation better as it's more organic, but I thought I'd ask a bit more about it; I wasn't sure if it has any impacts to gameplay.  Granted, I've only ever played the 2600 version, so maybe this is the norm on other ports.

 

The Robber logic that I've used more closely mirrors the 5200/8Bit/C64 version. So the Robber can be chased right off the level but appears on the next floor as expected and won't jump ahead on escalator screens.

 

I'm speculating but maybe the 2600 version wants to avoid a situation where the robber runs past the escalator as normal,  reappears on the next floor and immediately runs away in the opposite direction as the player registers on the floor as he arrives at the top of the escalator, trapping the player in a position where they cannot easily make a capture as the Robber has gone back to the floor below. I think that's more of a gameplay mechanic choice than a sprite limitation. I've left my version like the 5200 version in that respect as I see it as a responsibility on the player to manage their movement and catch the robber and not be too eager resulting in the Robber escaping!

 

Anyway, I'm glad you liked the demo and I appreciate the feedback and questions!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[+Pat Brady]

4 hours ago, Muddyfunster said:

I've kept the core game play and the common bits from all versions, but where the versions differ,  I've used my own judgement on what to retain. If something "works" I've kept it. In some cases I've not followed any of the versions, but have just done my own interpretation (eg. merit bonus increases for completing a level - my version doesn't follow any of the other versions - but they don't really follow each other..)

 

...

 

Plus I do want to keep this as an adaptation / port rather than "Keystone Kapers +" (as tempting as that is!). I did consider some changes  to the gameplay like speed ups, clock stopping pickups etc, but I felt that while some of those could enhance the gameplay they would also bring in new balancing considerations and ultimately it moved away from what the original vision was, which was to bring a good version of Keystone Kapers to the 7800, but with graphics and sound enhancements where possible.

 

??

[ColecoGamer]

Wow! What an incredible adaptation of Keystone Kapers! There’s an almost arcade quality to the graphics and gameplay. Day one purchase for sure!