“Attack of the PETSCII robots” for 7800

[mike99mccarthy]

This homebrew computer game is being ported to the 7800!!

[Zonie]

I'm surprised David is porting (or having it ported) to so many platforms. The Apple ][ take rate was dismal, and to be honest, I really don't think that game looks all that great. The packing and shipping seems to be overwhelming him as well. Hope he is making money with it.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

9 minutes ago, Zonie said:

I'm surprised David is porting (or having it ported) to so many platforms. The Apple ][ take rate was dismal, and to be honest, I really don't think that game looks all that great. The packing and shipping seems to be overwhelming him as well. Hope he is making money with it.

I don't know the sales numbers on anything, but I'm pretty sure the Atari version sold pretty decently initially. And I'd thought I heard somewhere that this has been his best selling game so far? As for the game being fun, it is. I like the fact that I can essentially take my time to roam around and get a lay for where the 'bots are and then try and find new ways to take them out and advance on. I haven't played his other games he has released because they didn't look like they would appeal to me that much but when I found out he was making the 8-bit port for the Atari systems, I bought it to support the platform alone. I'm glad I did although I do wish there had been time and resources to create better music for the Atari 8-bit version at least. 

 

I might get the NES version but until an hour Ago I didn't even know a 7800 port was in the works? I honestly thought a 5200 port would be possible and done before this given the keypad controller would make the UI aspects much easier for the player. 

 

I'm curious how inventory selection and use/move will be handled on the 7800 version? Sure we have two buttons on the controllers, but I'm guessing that the pause or select or basically the console panel buttons will have to come into play to get all the functions?

 

[+DrVenkman]

1 minute ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

I'm curious how inventory selection and use/move will be handled on the 7800 version? Sure we have two buttons on the controllers, but I'm guessing that the pause or select or basically the console panel buttons will have to come into play to get all the functions

Or use a second controller to access and move through an inventory panel, or a Keypad Controller … there are ways for a creative coder.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Just now, DrVenkman said:

Or use a second controller to access and move through an inventory panel, or a Keypad Controller … there are ways for a creative coder.

I really haven't been much of a fan of the dual controller schemes. I don't have an easy way of having them in place and stay in place. Not everyone has coupler or Edladdin super Twin 78 or the room for it. Keypad would be cool to see get a use but that would also assume that everyone has a keypad controllers? Actually most people likely have the touchpad from 2600 Star Raiders over the Basic programming keyboard pads but still. 

 

 

[+DrVenkman]

5 minutes ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

I really haven't been much of a fan of the dual controller schemes. I don't have an easy way of having them in place and stay in place. Not everyone has coupler or Edladdin super Twin 78 or the room for it. Keypad would be cool to see get a use but that would also assume that everyone has a keypad controllers? Actually most people likely have the touchpad from 2600 Star Raiders over the Basic programming keyboard pads but still. 

 

 

The point is, there’s always a way. And the “not everyone has …”, while true, is artificially-limiting on what can be done. Not everyone has a 5200 Trak-Ball (even though they should) but you can still play Centipede, Missile Command, etc. without them. But WITH a Trak-Ball these games become perfect. 

 

Anyway, two plain joysticks can be used if the gameplay is designed so that whatever the second controller is used for does not invoke time pressure. So if you have a few seconds to think and plan ahead, it’s not a big deal. Plenty of people have played, enjoyed and completed 2600 Raiders of the Lost Ark with just two 1-button sticks.  

 

If switching quickly is absolutely required by the gameplay, a good designer can still make a usable scheme work with just one controller. E.g., pressing and holding the second button to invoke the selection, use the stick (or D-pad for Euro controllers or a Genesis pad) to select the new item, then release the second button. 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

There are times when you need to quickly switch between inventory items yes. Many situations in dealing with the robots will require you to use one item that will only give you a few seconds to switch to move item mode, move items around to block in the robot...and then change inventory to a weapon item etc. to finally dispatch the robot. The keyboard controls that Dave initially has setup work pretty well for this because you use one part of the keyboard for moving your character and the other to select inventory items through a selector toggle between two keys being items or weapons and the keys are already near where you hand is so you can do it without having to look for where the keyboard buttons are. 

 

I played a ton of Raiders back in the day but that game did allow you to essentially change your inventory with plenty of time or without stress of the current situation. 

 

As to a point on why there are so many ports of this game it is easy to answer. David isn't the one doing the ports. Others are that asked him for the source code and took it upon themselves to start porting it and then going to David for approval on the graphics and game play-ability as they develop it along. That leaves David freed up to concentrate on handling the actual sales and shipping of what is already done and ready to go since he doesn't have to worry about coding anything for these versions. 

 

I believe David has stated that source code on all of his games has always been available if a person but asks him. But this is really the first time that a game of his has gotten so much attention that there is so many actively wanting to port it to other platforms.

 

Once this is done, it might very well be the most ported original homebrew game at that point right? But again not all done by him but through the efforts of MANY enthusiastic people!

 

 

[Zonie]

PLaying Raiders on the 2600 sucks as it is, and trying to do that fast by dropping a stick to grab the other is sure death in a game like this.
Maybe he'll make a SNES adapter for the 7800 too? I haven't played this game so I don't know, do the computer versions use the keyboard for inventory?
This type of thing is why I have been advocating a new controller that has more than two buttons. Whether it be four in a diamond arrangement or adding a wheel and 2-3 more buttons, or whatever. With the SD card readers now, I could see a lot of existing games tweaked to take advantage of it. Maybe if I build it the games will come?

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

9 minutes ago, Zonie said:

PLaying Raiders on the 2600 sucks as it is, and trying to do that fast by dropping a stick to grab the other is sure death in a game like this.
Maybe he'll make a SNES adapter for the 7800 too? I haven't played this game so I don't know, do the computer versions use the keyboard for inventory?
This type of thing is why I have been advocating a new controller that has more than two buttons. Whether it be four in a diamond arrangement or adding a wheel and 2-3 more buttons, or whatever. With the SD card readers now, I could see a lot of existing games tweaked to take advantage of it. Maybe if I build it the games will come?

 

The 8-bit version for the Atari Computers uses a set a keys for movement and below that you can use another 2 keys for toggling between the weapon inventory selection and the other to toggle between your items inventory collection. On the other side of the keyboard we use a key for enabling the search function.

 

But, all the current computers versions of the game allow you to remap the keys however you want to use them on the title screen for playing the game. 

 

So technically aside from direction keys, you end up using like 5 more buttons to do stuff I believe. The game only supports use of the SNES controller adapter if you have one as it doesn't detect normally controllers connected to it I don't think.

 

 

[+mksmith]

Hi all!

 

So a few weeks ago I discussed it with Mike @RevEng and we decided to ask David for the source (the Pet version) and have a crack at converting it.  So far we pretty much have everything working as you saw in 320 mode - it's runs very smoothly and is (currently) using the character and tileset of the c64 release (the system David built is quite flexible) with all 10 maps playable.  Currently it's sitting in 7800basic as a wrapper using a couple of features to simplify the display and controller setup but all the main source is fully 6502 assembly updated for 7800 requirements.

 

 

As mentioned above the controller is going to be the biggie on how we can make it a great experience.  In one of David's earlier videos about the A8 version he noted an adapter is available for the SNES controller but whether that will work here we need to determine. Mike has added many controllers to 7800basic so if it can be done he is the man.  Currently it's running a standard 2 button controller and using the Select/Reset console buttons whilst we test everything but not everything is currently mapped at all times. If you have any suggestions on how it might work with 1, 2 buttons, 1 or 2 joysticks or something else please feel free to speak up with what you feel might be a good compromise for the 7800.  Bear in mind we could add a few different options so to cater for all types.

 

We don't really wish to announce our future plans just yet so I won't be commenting much further about how it might work (unless it's about the controller discussion) until we can flesh out our plans and determine what can be achieved. As it's David's game we also won't be making any build's publicly available at this time.

 

 

[Silver Back]

37 minutes ago, mksmith said:

 

As mentioned above the controller is going to be the biggie on how we can make it a great experience.  In one of David's earlier videos about the A8 version he noted an adapter is available for the SNES controller but whether that will work here we need to determine. Mike has added many controllers to 7800basic so if it can be done he is the man.  Currently it's running a standard 2 button controller and using the Select/Reset console buttons whilst we test everything but not everything is currently mapped at all times. If you have any suggestions on how it might work with 1, 2 buttons, 1 or 2 joysticks or something else please feel free to speak up with what you feel might be a good compromise for the 7800. 

Just giving my 2 cents since you asked for input. I really don’t like using the buttons on the console to do things. I like sitting on the couch with my custom arcade stick and a beer.

 

When I first heard of it I thought the only way to do it would be to hold down a button and use 8 directions on the joystick to accomplish things but I’ve never played this game so idk if that would be too cumbersome or even possible from a programming standpoint. I’m just going off comments saying it requires 8 buttons for actions. 
 

that’s the best I got but I don’t have an understanding of how the game works. 
 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Silver Back
Finished incomplete thought

[+DrVenkman]

Same here - I like to sit on the couch with a cold beverage and enjoy the games a few feet away from the TV and console. If any game could demonstrate the utility of a keypad controller in Port 2 for stuff like this, this game would be the one. I have a 2600 Star Raiders keyboard controller and I’ve been meaning to pick up a pair of standard keypads for use with the BASIC Language cart just for giggles anyway. And if worse came to worse it’d be easy to breadboard up a keyboard controller with micro switches or design a PCB for one. 

 

 

[+Pat Brady]

1 hour ago, mksmith said:

As mentioned above the controller is going to be the biggie on how we can make it a great experience.  In one of David's earlier videos about the A8 version he noted an adapter is available for the SNES controller but whether that will work here we need to determine. Mike has added many controllers to 7800basic so if it can be done he is the man.  Currently it's running a standard 2 button controller and using the Select/Reset console buttons whilst we test everything but not everything is currently mapped at all times. If you have any suggestions on how it might work with 1, 2 buttons, 1 or 2 joysticks or something else please feel free to speak up with what you feel might be a good compromise for the 7800.  Bear in mind we could add a few different options so to cater for all types.

I'm not familiar with this game, but in general if you need a bunch of buttons I think the keyboard controller is the way to go. Of course it doesn't hurt to provide other options.

[SlidellMan]

How about using the P1 joystick for movement while using the P2 for attack? The P1 joystick buttons can be used to switch items, whereas the P2 buttons can be use for interactivity and item usage.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I think the only way to make it work since the original game uses essentially a dual control system so you can control movement with one and your shots with the other while also needing the buttons to select stuff.

 

As @DrVenkman stated, this is a keypad destined game. The keypad has enough buttons to be able to essentially hot select the items and weapons without the need to press a single button to scroll through. Perhaps two of the other buttons on the keypad can be used to switch between Move and Search. That way depending on which of those modes you have active, then the button 1 could be used to so hold it down and then use the controller for say searching. But holding down button 2 and using the controller would be firing the current weapon in the direction you moved the controller. The USE button is the only trick here. Would it be possible to set it up so that which button on the controller is for search and move functions could be USE if you double press the button instead of pressing and holding it?

 

 

[Trebor]

This made me think of the possible needs of Spire of the Ancients @SmittyB, as well as current hardware supplier who currently is selling keypad interfacing controllers for classic systems @edladdin

 

I recall once in my console gaming history that I bought a controller for the sake of a game.   It was for the Sega Genesis when Street Fighter II': Special Champion Edition was released; in fact, it was a package bundle deal at Software Etc. at the time. 

 

The logistics in this scenario is far different, but wrapping my head around cost effective and practicality, some partnership or teaming up may be inevitable for this to be feasible with a main and/or ideal controller solution source that is reliable and available for public distribution.   Wondering how/if this product would work under the 7800, or some sort of hybrid coupled with this item as well.

 

If not, there needs to be an alternate way to control the game as I would imagine a considerable number of 7800 owners are not going to have a 2600 video touch/keypad at their disposal.  I'm one of the luckier ones, but certainly wouldn't mind a new/modern replacement.

[jstrotha0975]

I'm exited to finally be able to play this game. I own none of the systems it's been ported to until now, the 7800. I think a keypad makes the most sense. Like others, I play away from the console, so using the buttons on the console is a problem.

[+Karl G]

I'm assuming that using the console button was a temporary solution wow the final controls are being worked out. I also like the keyboard controller as the second controller option. It would be cool if someone was able to produce overlays to go with that, too. Probably allowing a second joystick as a backup option would be good, too, as not everyone has keyboard controllers.

 

As a side note, I am hoping that the final version has a little bit of color, if that is feasible.

[Silver Back]

36 minutes ago, Karl G said:

I'm assuming that using the console button was a temporary solution wow the final controls are being worked out. I also like the keyboard controller as the second controller option. It would be cool if someone was able to produce overlays to go with that, too. Probably allowing a second joystick as a backup option would be good, too, as not everyone has keyboard controllers.

 

As a side note, I am hoping that the final version has a little bit of color, if that is feasible.

Just curious is the keyboard controller widely available?

[+jgkspsx]

It is hard to not be hit by falling keypad controllers if you’ve ever bought 2600 games in bulk ?

[Silver Back]

18 minutes ago, jgkspsx said:

It is hard to not be hit by falling keypad controllers if you’ve ever bought 2600 games in bulk ?

Lmao thank you not sure how I avoided them but yeah I agree then that the keypad may be the way to go. 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Silver Back
Typos

[+Karl G]

1 hour ago, Silver Back said:

Just curious is the keyboard controller widely available?

Yeah; they are plentiful, and generally cheap.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I forgot to mention that the game on the computers currently uses one set of keyboard keys to move around and use the search function. The other side of the keyboard you have another set of keys for direction control related to firing your weapon so you don't have a toggle to enable the currently held weapon, it is just always active and you use the keys in the direction you want to fire. That side also has the additional buttons you configure for toggling the inventory and weapons and for changing the cursor from item use mode to Move mode.

 

So basically it is a dual controller game as it stands but using the different halves of the keyboard to break this out.

 

Not sure how the SNES version handles this but I'm guessing the buttons on the right are mimicking the weapon direction fire. 

 

So yeah, a controller setup would be needed so you can press down one of the buttons combined with a direction key to fire your weapon but you wouldn't really be able to shoot on the move unless an actual dual controller setup was implemented ala Robotron style. Then you would have to use the console buttons and switches for everything else and that would require you sit next to the console.

 

I'm curious how the Genesis version is going to handle controls as well? A 6-btn controller will likely be essential for that port.

 

[+jgkspsx]

What about the Robotron controller holder for the 7800? Then you have four buttons and two joysticks in easy reach…

[justclaws]

I'm sure Atari would be really happy to distribute this via the new VCS store, too.
The Atari Modern controller could also allow dual-stick mapping if that's required.

(The new Flashback Friday release for the VCS is Atari 7800 Planet Smashers btw.)