The Atari VCS Controversies Thread

[Keatah]

2 hours ago, Cebus Capucinis said:

Protip: One way to get trolled less is to stop being such an easy target.  It's easy to dunk on a group that gets the vapors and cries in the corner every time someone says anything less than calling the console the second coming and screeches how the ones leveling legitimate criticisms are things like "crazed stalker trolls" and "OmG hAyTeRs!!!!11!"

That's true for any console. On any forum. AtariAge is not exempt from that state of affairs.

[+x=usr(1536)]

 

FWIW, I don't believe that the VCS is completely dead - yet.  But I do believe that Atari SA's commitment to it at this point is minimal at best.

 

My suspicion is that with the recent regime change the VCS has been, shall we say, deprioritised.  This means that the path forward is likely one of selling all remaining inventory and letting it quietly slip into obscurity.  It doesn't seem to be providing a significant ongoing revenue stream for Atari SA, so efforts are likely best directed elsewhere.

 

I'm willing to admit that I could be wrong, but having seen this sort of thing before in my professional life, it's walking and quacking a bit like a duck.

[gilsaluki]

Even if prices drop drastically, what is my motivation to invest in yet another failed Fuji-symbolled system?   Future rarity?  Did that dude EVER sell his 'extra' VCS on the Marketplace?  It was listed for a long time and no one took him up on it.  If there is so little interest here, there must be zilch out in the public.

[zzip]

14 hours ago, rayik said:

My overall impression is Atari used thier resources to create the hardware. There is not much work put into Atari OS.  it is really rather roughly done in that on boot up fyou can see CLI output and  a cursor for brief periods of time.   Would have expected there to be at the least a full screen graphic hiding that.

That's Linux for you.  Even on my personal Linux system, I'd rather see a boot screen than scrolling text, but every so often it will flood the screen with text anyway.   The Atari OS boots with no text output most of the time, but sometimes it shows up.   Although when I boot the Ubuntu I installed myself,  I see an Atari Logo and an Ubuntu logo.  I don't know how that happened since I didn't tell it to use an Atari logo boot screen.  Did Ubuntu just detect that or something?

 

14 hours ago, rayik said:

Also the PC Mode to me seems like something put together at the last second, probably when it was realized Atari OS would not offer much.  To be kind, it is really roughly implemented.

PC mode was announced for years.  And I mean all it boils down to is a way to load an alternate OS the same way you would with any other PC and select it from a bootloader.   How else were you expecting it to be implemented?

[zzip]

15 hours ago, 82-T/A said:

The PS2 was the best selling system out of all the PlayStations,

Yes PS2 sold the most, but it also didn't have strong competition,  Xbox was just starting out and the first one only sold a fraction of that.   Xbox 360 was much stronger, and that reduced Playstation 3 sales.   Both Xbox360 and PS3 sold just under 90 million each.   The one wildcard here is Nintendo.  With Wii they targeted a different, casual market.   They bought Wii's in droves, but that market did not show up for Wii U.   Now with the Switch, they are selling in big numbers again, while at the same time PS5 and the new Xbox systems are also selling strong.

 

15 hours ago, 82-T/A said:

3 / 4 / 5 were each successively less

3 sold less,  4 sold significantly more than 3.  5 we don't know, but supposedly is selling at a faster rate than 4 did even though supply constrained.

 

15 hours ago, 82-T/A said:

For that matter, I have a daughter who's 12. She has a lot of friends and they're really into a lot of different things, but console games are something not a single one of them have mentioned. One of her friends has an XBOX, and the rest of them have no interest, but they all play Roblox, some Mine Craft, and other games on their PCs, laptops, and even tablets.

This is a demographic that was never strongly into console gaming to begin with.   Nowadays they'll game on tablets and whatnot.   But that's more an example of the gaming pie expanding rather than consoles contracting.    FWIW My own daughter has always gamed on console, PC and tablet, as have her friends.

[+sixersfan105]

8 hours ago, gilsaluki said:

Even if prices drop drastically, what is my motivation to invest in yet another failed Fuji-symbolled system?   Future rarity?  Did that dude EVER sell his 'extra' VCS on the Marketplace?  It was listed for a long time and no one took him up on it.  If there is so little interest here, there must be zilch out in the public.

If this is the one you mean, then no, still available...

 

 

[Mockduck]

I mean, people can ask what they want for a used item, but if you are asking the same price plus shipping that you could easily get a brand new one sent to you for, what is the actual motivation to buy someone else's system, meaning you won't get its warranty and support?

[rayik]

9 hours ago, zzip said:

PC mode was announced for years.  And I mean all it boils down to is a way to load an alternate OS the same way you would with any other PC and select it from a bootloader.   How else were you expecting it to be implemented?

 

Expecting a boot loader that would allow you to pick the OS to load.  With a timer to load your selected default OS if no selection is made.

[Matt_B]

I'd think that they should have done it like Valve are doing with the Steam Deck. I.e. give you root access to the operating system and let you install what you want.

 

Dual booting is so 1990s too. If you need another operating systems on the same machine, just virtualize it.

[82-T/A]

9 hours ago, zzip said:

This is a demographic that was never strongly into console gaming to begin with.   Nowadays they'll game on tablets and whatnot.   But that's more an example of the gaming pie expanding rather than consoles contracting.    FWIW My own daughter has always gamed on console, PC and tablet, as have her friends.

 

The world's population has basically doubled since the PlayStation 1 came out.

 

The PlayStation 2 sold a total of 155 million units, the best selling video game system in the entire world, ever, in the history of histories and worlds and records that we know of as human beings. The PlayStation 4, which is the next best SONY selling system, sold 40 million LESS video game systems, despite the fact that 13 years had gone by and there were almost 100 million more people in the United States, and easily 2.5-3 billion more people in the world.

 

Under any reasonable mathematical determination, those sales are abysmal for growth. It's clearly enough for Sony to make a profit off of it, but very clearly... you have GOT to see that consoles are going away. By simple math alone, Sony has seen a 30% decrease in console sales, despite the fact that the population doubled.

 

Dude, we are in our 40s... young people don't play console games anymore unless we as adults force them to relive our own childhoods (which we all know we do). I would be willing to bet that older people... younger Gen-Xers and older to medium-aged Millennials are the ones buying the PlayStation 5. Tablets come with 8-core processors in them now at ~$100 bucks, and laptops have made a serious comeback. There were literally 228 million laptops sold just in 2020 alone... and most people I know already have laptops (multiple laptops).

 

I'm probably getting as emotional as the weirdos on here that go out of their way to join an Atari VCS thread to tell us how bad it is (how weird is that?)... but I think we all see that consoles are going away. Unless there's some huge paradigm shift in how people play games... consoles are on the way out. They really serve no purpose. Why have something that ties you to a TV, when you can play something on the go?

 

I wanted to add more to this... about where I see the future of video games.

 

With 5G, and many places getting straight fiber... (I get 1gb internet speeds at home), there's really no need for me to have a console. You could quite literally play a game that's streamed through a browser, where the video and controls are transmitted in the same way that a ZERO client operates... and the zero client could effectively be some software built into the TV. I got rid of all of my Rokus when I moved... and bought all new 4k Roku TVs. I could literally just download a Roku app and play games... all the processing can be done on the server-side...

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by 82-T/A

[82-T/A]

1 hour ago, Mockduck said:

I mean, people can ask what they want for a used item, but if you are asking the same price plus shipping that you could easily get a brand new one sent to you for, what is the actual motivation to buy someone else's system, meaning you won't get its warranty and support?

 

Yeah, I agree. I saw that and considered it, and was like... why would I do that? It's been sitting at someone's house? Even though he's willing to pay for shipping, that's like $10 bucks... if I get it and it smells like cigarette smoke, or it's missing something (I'm sure he's a nice guy, but I don't know him), then I'm out...

 

I can literally buy the system new...

[Rick Dangerous]

I'm a non-smoker. It's shipping included now. 

 

And in most places you can't go out and buy one. 

 

I don't think because I want to sell one it's a failure, I'm keeping one, upgrading it and enjoying it daily! It's a great little system for it's intended purpose (Indy and retro inspired titles)

[mckafka99]

I grabbed a couple of the classic joysticks pre-order and really like them. I’ve almost pulled the trigger on the console at $299 from the Atari site because after all, in essence, it’s just a small form factor PC that just happens to have some Atari branding on it (and all I see for sale anywhere else are the $399 bundles which I dont need). Is it maybe a little overpriced at even $299, perhaps, but I don’t think overly so, when seen as a PC and not a gaming console. I may yet pull the trigger for it though, if they are still around after a few more toys on the list are acquired and the various projects for the RaspPis I have kicking around are sorted out so hopefully it survives that long.

Edited July 28, 2021 by mckafka99

[jerseystyle]

I am very interested in picking up a classic controller- I like the look of it and being able to twist it for paddle games is great. I think, rather than a new console, Atari should’ve released the classic controller with a pack of reimagined retro titles- like the controller and 10 games (missile command, pong, etc) for like 100$. I’d buy that.  I’m starting to lean into that opinion for the Amico also. 

Edited July 28, 2021 by jerseystyle

[Leeroy ST]

I think people's expectations and perspectives would be more realistic if you consider the VCS infograme's parallel to what Mattel did with the Hyperscan. A somewhat lacking release with limited distribution aimed toward a niche audience with overpriced MSRP.

 

 

[roots.genoa]

8 hours ago, 82-T/A said:

easily 2.5-3 billion more people in the world.

No, there were 6 billion people in 2000, and 7.9 today.

Edited July 28, 2021 by roots.genoa

[82-T/A]

5 hours ago, roots.genoa said:

No, there were 6 billion people in 2000, and 7.9 today.

Hahaha...

[zzip]

14 hours ago, rayik said:

 

Expecting a boot loader that would allow you to pick the OS to load.  With a timer to load your selected default OS if no selection is made.

It's there, you have to hit escape when the system starts to bring it up.   If you want to change it, you need the bios password (posted online) and you can change the boot order permenantly and install GRUB or something.

[82-T/A]

13 minutes ago, zzip said:

It's there, you have to hit escape when the system starts to bring it up.   If you want to change it, you need the bios password (posted online) and you can change the boot order permenantly and install GRUB or something.

 

Did they fix that problem? I know originally they had changed the BIOS password and no one could go in, have they since changed it back or released it?

[zzip]

14 hours ago, Matt_B said:

I'd think that they should have done it like Valve are doing with the Steam Deck. I.e. give you root access to the operating system and let you install what you want.

Do we know for sure they are doing this, or will they cop out too and limit access because of the support/warranty/security issues it might cause?

 

14 hours ago, 82-T/A said:

I'm probably getting as emotional as the weirdos on here that go out of their way to join an Atari VCS thread to tell us how bad it is (how weird is that?)... but I think we all see that consoles are going away. Unless there's some huge paradigm shift in how people play games... consoles are on the way out. They really serve no purpose. Why have something that ties you to a TV, when you can play something on the go?

In the long run everything goes away.   All I'm saying is consoles are healthy now and not going away anytime soon.   I remember when PC gaming was pretty much dead, but then surprised us by making a comeback thanks to Steam.  Right now PC GPUs are very expensive even for entry-level ones , so that is probably fueling the insane demand for PS5/XBsX for people who don't want to break the bank on a gaming PC these days.

 

14 hours ago, 82-T/A said:

Tablets come with 8-core processors in them now at ~$100 bucks, and laptops have made a serious comeback. There were literally 228 million laptops sold just in 2020 alone

Core count alone doesn't mean much.   The most powerful processors need active cooling.   You simply can't put that kind of cooling in a tablet/phone/mobile device.  So these devices will always be at the low-end of power.   Some users won't care, but there are an awful lot of gamers who want the best graphics and latest and greatest, and tablets won't cut it for them.   The pandemic is the reason for so many laptop sales in 2020,  not gaming.  

 

14 hours ago, 82-T/A said:

 

With 5G, and many places getting straight fiber... (I get 1gb internet speeds at home)

And I don't.   The phone company stopped laying fiber in my area, and worse Comcast wants to institute a data-cap on residential customers.  My cell plan has data caps,  why would I go to streaming?

 

Besides that, there are a lot of people who will never switch to streaming for a variety of reasons-  they want to own the physical hardware, they want to own the games, they don't want the added latency, they don't want to lose everything because they posted an angry message one day and got banned from the service.

[zzip]

20 minutes ago, 82-T/A said:

 

Did they fix that problem? I know originally they had changed the BIOS password and no one could go in, have they since changed it back or released it?

I don't know, I thought people found the new passwords?   I haven't personally tried it yet

[82-T/A]

4 hours ago, zzip said:

In the long run everything goes away.   All I'm saying is consoles are healthy now and not going away anytime soon.   I remember when PC gaming was pretty much dead, but then surprised us by making a comeback thanks to Steam.  Right now PC GPUs are very expensive even for entry-level ones , so that is probably fueling the insane demand for PS5/XBsX for people who don't want to break the bank on a gaming PC these days.

 

And I don't.   The phone company stopped laying fiber in my area, and worse Comcast wants to institute a data-cap on residential customers.  My cell plan has data caps,  why would I go to streaming?

 

Besides that, there are a lot of people who will never switch to streaming for a variety of reasons-  they want to own the physical hardware, they want to own the games, they don't want the added latency, they don't want to lose everything because they posted an angry message one day and got banned from the service.

 

I'm curious when PC gaming was dead? Was this during the 90s or something or early 2000s when game consoles were really popular? I think household computers are definitely becoming less and less popular. Most people I know have "a" computer at home... but they all use tablets now. On laptops, yes... school and teleworking, but that's not decreasing. Seems many companies are pushing teleworking more and more, so laptops are even more prevalent.

 

I'm one of those who prefers to own the physical hardware, but as time goes on, I seem to care less and less. I don't know what you would quantify as "a lot" ... it's really us old farts that seem to fuss about such things. Kids today don't even care. My daughter and her friends, for example... could care less about cartridges. To them, it's all about the software and they can pretty much use Roblox, Gotcha, and other programs across Chrome Book, Windows, Linux, Tablet / Android, iOS, you name it. 

 

I'm just saying, we are definitely seeing a sunseting of game systems... 

 

[zzip]

4 minutes ago, 82-T/A said:

I'm curious when PC gaming was dead? Was this during the 90s or something or early 2000s when game consoles were really popular? I think household computers are definitely becoming less and less popular. Most people I know have "a" computer at home... but they all use tablets now. On laptops, yes... school and teleworking, but that's not decreasing. Seems many companies are pushing teleworking more and more, so laptops are even more prevalent.

It was probably mid-2000s.     PC games were disappearing from the stores and articles were written about how PC gaming was dying, but then as Steam got more popular it reinvigorated it.

 

Before that, the PC game market was almost almost separate entity from console games.  Lots of PC games never showed up on console (or if they did, they'd be cut down versions) and lots of console games never showed up on PC.  Nowadays most games minus exclusives show up on both and they are virtually identical.

[rayik]

5 hours ago, zzip said:

It's there, you have to hit escape when the system starts to bring it up.   If you want to change it, you need the bios password (posted online) and you can change the boot order permenantly and install GRUB or something.

 

Expect an actual multiboot loader without having to his ESC.  Hitting ESC is Atari not doing anything to have a multiboot loader.  Rather that's hitting a hot key to interrup the bootup and go to the BIOS boot menu.  

 

Also how do you hit ESC when you only have a controller in hand and no keyboard hooked up?

 

I would expect a multiboot loader to automatically give you the option to choice which available OS to boot into.  No need to hit a key to interrupt bootup.  Also able to allow you to make a selection using a controller.  Or if you don't choose, booting your choosen default OS after a perod of time.

 

Edited July 28, 2021 by rayik
spelling correction

[pacman000]

I'm not sure we should compare this with regular consoles or PCs; Atari SA's strategy reminds me of the GP32. It didn't make a dent in the market, but it still had a fairly long life, plus a few successors. GP32 - Wikipedia