Atari VCS APU upgrade attempt

[reaper89971]

ATARI VCS apu upgrade  Do not try this yourself as a disclaimer,  I had mine done by a professional who does it for a living.

 

I had my Atari VCS professionally reballed and had an a Ryzen 3 3300U soldered into it and it won't work,  Witch i was prepared and knew it might not, after dumping 470 $into the project.

The fans just spin so the board gets power but it seems there is no firmware on the board.  Help!!! anyone out there think they could get me a generic bios on my Atari VCS and get it working for me. 

 

With the new APU installed. 

Confirm Ryzen 3 3300U FT5 BGA 1140 ball 4 cores 4 threads vega 6 graphics,  did not work for apu upgrade. 

 

If anyone has done this with success leave a post.    The best reballer in town  did it to who does custom apus for xbox and ps4 and ps3 all the time so i know the bga solder rework is good. 

 

I can either buy another Atari VCS or have it reballed and put the old apu back in , both cost about the same.  Labor for hand reball without stencil is 300 $  or so.  Witch is fine.  Anyone else try this with another APU,  Maybe having success.  Anyone know why the ryzen 3 3300U would not work as a replacement pinout is the same.  Its on my board right now.   So confirmed if not already the atari vcs is a amd FT5 bga 1140 ball unless they did something special to there apu to make it not work with another other apu. 

 

Atari VCS Engineers please chime in and explain if you would why the other apu would not work with the same pinout similiar specs.  

 

Thanks in advanced for replies  Anyone think about trying this and going bigger think again it might not work.  What core is used in the atari vcs.  The 3300u uses a picasso core zen + according to cpu world. 

 

[reaper89971]

23 minutes ago, reaper89971 said:

ATARI VCS apu upgrade  Do not try this yourself as a disclaimer,  I had mine done by a professional who does it for a living.

 

I had my Atari VCS professionally reballed and had an a Ryzen 3 3300U soldered into it and it won't work,  Witch i was prepared and knew it might not, after dumping 470 $into the project.

The fans just spin so the board gets power but it seems there is no firmware on the board.  Help!!! anyone out there think they could get me a generic bios on my Atari VCS and get it working for me. 

 

With the new APU installed. 

Confirm Ryzen 3 3300U FT5 BGA 1140 ball 4 cores 4 threads vega 6 graphics,  did not work for apu upgrade. 

 

If anyone has done this with success leave a post.    The best reballer in town  did it to who does custom apus for xbox and ps4 and ps3 all the time so i know the bga solder rework is good. 

 

I can either buy another Atari VCS or have it reballed and put the old apu back in , both cost about the same.  Labor for hand reball without stencil is 300 $  or so.  Witch is fine.  Anyone else try this with another APU,  Maybe having success.  Anyone know why the ryzen 3 3300U would not work as a replacement pinout is the same.  Its on my board right now.   So confirmed if not already the atari vcs is a amd FT5 bga 1140 ball unless they did something special to there apu to make it not work with another other apu. 

 

Atari VCS Engineers please chime in and explain if you would why the other apu would not work with the same pinout similiar specs.  

 

Thanks in advanced for replies  Anyone think about trying this and going bigger think again it might not work.  What core is used in the atari vcs.  The 3300u uses a picasso core zen + according to cpu world. 

 

 

[reaper89971]

3 hours ago, reaper89971 said:

ATARI VCS apu upgrade  Do not try this yourself as a disclaimer,  I had mine done by a professional who does it for a living.

 

I had my Atari VCS professionally reballed and had an a Ryzen 3 3300U soldered into it and it won't work,  Witch i was prepared and knew it might not, after dumping 470 $into the project.

The fans just spin so the board gets power but it seems there is no firmware on the board.  Help!!! anyone out there think they could get me a generic bios on my Atari VCS and get it working for me. 

 

With the new APU installed. 

Confirm Ryzen 3 3300U FT5 BGA 1140 ball 4 cores 4 threads vega 6 graphics,  did not work for apu upgrade. 

 

If anyone has done this with success leave a post.    The best reballer in town  did it to who does custom apus for xbox and ps4 and ps3 all the time so i know the bga solder rework is good. 

 

I can either buy another Atari VCS or have it reballed and put the old apu back in , both cost about the same.  Labor for hand reball without stencil is 300 $  or so.  Witch is fine.  Anyone else try this with another APU,  Maybe having success.  Anyone know why the ryzen 3 3300U would not work as a replacement pinout is the same.  Its on my board right now.   So confirmed if not already the atari vcs is a amd FT5 bga 1140 ball unless they did something special to there apu to make it not work with another other apu. 

 

Atari VCS Engineers please chime in and explain if you would why the other apu would not work with the same pinout similiar specs.  

 

Thanks in advanced for replies  Anyone think about trying this and going bigger think again it might not work.  What core is used in the atari vcs.  The 3300u uses a picasso core zen + according to cpu world. 

 

Thanks to my local reballing friend who made this attempt possible I forgot to say that in my earlier post.  I might have that stencil made and have him put the old apu back in the console. 

[+Stephen]

That's some hardcore modding right there.  Good luck with your experiments!

[reaper89971]

2 hours ago, Stephen said:

That's some hardcore modding right there.  Good luck with your experiments!

Thanks this is the end of the line for this one i think.

[Keatah]

9 hours ago, reaper89971 said:

Atari VCS Engineers please chime in and explain if you would why the other apu would not work with the same pinout similiar specs.  

 

Thanks in advanced for replies  Anyone think about trying this and going bigger think again it might not work.  What core is used in the atari vcs.  The 3300u uses a picasso core zen + according to cpu world.

Not an engineer involved with this atari vcs. But. How do you know the pinouts are the same if you don't know what core is used in the vcs in the first place? Seems that in order to know the pinouts you'd need to know what it is.

[reaper89971]

12 hours ago, Keatah said:

Not an engineer involved with this atari vcs. But. How do you know the pinouts are the same if you don't know what core is used in the vcs in the first place? Seems that in order to know the pinouts you'd need to know what it is.

Its soldered to my board right now.  Wiki chip package datasheet AMD FT5 BGA1140 and CPU World FT5 BGA1140 Ball. 

 

I had a reballer do it and the sockets are the same.

Pinout too. 

Unless they did something to there socket for the Atari VCS like omit pins or something. 

 

That is the information i am hoping to find out as to specifically why the ryzen 3300U did not work? 

 

Otherwise my system is dead and project here is dead.  Im trying to get someone to make me a stencil so i can have the same reballer try again with another apu or put the old one back.   Below i listed my links for reference.  There are a bunch of processors that use that socket.  Ryzen mobile and ryzen embedded.

 

I believed it was a Zen + Picasso That is why i tried a Zen + Picasso

 

CPU World website link to the R1606G ATARI VCS processor

https://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Zen/AMD-Ryzen Embedded R1000 R1606G.html

 

  

   Wiki chip link package details.

https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/amd/packages/fp5           

 

 

CPU world link to the ryzen 3300U this the information i went on. 

https://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Zen/AMD-Ryzen 3 Mobile 3300U.html

 

[reaper89971]

13 hours ago, Keatah said:

Not an engineer involved with this atari vcs. But. How do you know the pinouts are the same if you don't know what core is used in the vcs in the first place? Seems that in order to know the pinouts you'd need to know what it is.

thanks for reply

[justclaws]

On 11/22/2021 at 9:55 PM, reaper89971 said:

ATARI VCS apu upgrade  Do not try this yourself as a disclaimer,  I had mine done by a professional who does it for a living.

 

I had my Atari VCS professionally reballed and had an a Ryzen 3 3300U soldered into it and it won't work,  Witch i was prepared and knew it might not, after dumping 470 $into the project.

The fans just spin so the board gets power but it seems there is no firmware on the board.  Help!!! anyone out there think they could get me a generic bios on my Atari VCS and get it working for me. 

 

With the new APU installed. 

Confirm Ryzen 3 3300U FT5 BGA 1140 ball 4 cores 4 threads vega 6 graphics,  did not work for apu upgrade. 

 

I'm not a VCS engineer either, ha ha. However...
the APU I would have tried would have been the V1605b, which is said to be 100% compatible with the R1605g as I read on AMD site.
The R1606g and the V1605b are both intended for embedded applications, have a 10 year support lifespan, and offer secure features.

I can see, with the price you paid, it's not an option to try again. Well, it wouldn't be for me, but then again, maybe it's an investment.
Maybe this reference page, which has the R and V series (the V series actually months older than 2019 R series) is somewhat useful?
https://www.amd.com/en/products/specifications/embedded

 

 

[justclaws]

For anybody who is interested to see just how difficult a chip swap this was... try this.
(Although in this video, it's a laptop, the BGA is the same, and it's also an AMD chip.)

There's probably going to be somebody who says this is a bad example, but it's one!
 

 

[reaper89971]

7 hours ago, justclaws said:

For anybody who is interested to see just how difficult a chip swap this was... try this.
(Although in this video, it's a laptop, the BGA is the same, and it's also an AMD chip.)

There's probably going to be somebody who says this is a bad example, but it's one!
 

 

On this note this the reballer who did it for me

here is his website He does computers and game consoles and phones like in the mall repair service.  He does CPU socket replacement as well PS4 and PS3 and hdmi replacement etc

https://ps3specialist.com/playstation-3-reballing-repair-service-up-to-two-years-warranty-you-choose-your-warranty-term/  He also has a shop recently opened near were i live.  If you things break he can fix it. 

 

My hope was this would work and he could later offer this swap in the Atari VCS as an upgrade service or a reball service in the future when these machines begin to break witch they will eventually

[reaper89971]

Anyone think it could be the psu used in atari being too small.  It dawned on me today.  The Ryzen 3 3300U came from a dead HP 15-CW1500SA witch uses a larger power supply at 19.5 v 45 watt vs the 19v 65 watt atari vcs power supply. 

[reaper89971]

Just now, reaper89971 said:

Anyone think it could be the psu used in atari being too small.  It dawned on me today.  The Ryzen 3 3300U came from a dead HP 15-CW1500SA witch uses a larger power supply at 19.5 v 45 watt vs the 19v 65 watt atari vcs power supply. 

Or would the power more rely on the motherboard or the APU itself.

[Keatah]

Wait. If the 3300U came from a dead laptop.. maybe that 3300U is bad and reason for the dead laptop in the first place. There's that and then proper verification of the soldering work with x-ray. Was the board inspected by that method?

 

All in all, how much of a performance delta would be expected with this swap?

 

Edited November 24, 2021 by Keatah

[justclaws]

4 hours ago, reaper89971 said:

Anyone think it could be the psu used in atari being too small.  

No, the PSU for the system isn't the issue, I'd be really confident about that.
The VCS is designed to be a low-energy system, and the R1606g is very energy efficient.

I did some power measurements back in January 2021, when I got my first VCS, and it was
really amazing how energy-efficient it is. Most of the time, it was using 13w; it peaked at 30w.
When I look at the older PCs and systems I'm running, mostly the CPU alone is drinking 95w.
 

The APU you detailed, although I'd not heard of it before, sounds remarkably similar, that way.



I stick with my idea that it's the base clock speed which would be messing up a lot of things.
You chose an APU with a base clock speed of 2.1 Ghz.
The VCS R1606G has a base clock speed (and timing for RAM) at 2.6 Ghz; are you overclocking the 3300u?

My opinion, not being an engineer, but having experience with hardware, electronics, and specs sheets, is:
- Try it again, if you've got the cash to throw at it, with the v1605b. That's a more direct equivalent IMHO.
  The base clock speed of the v1605b is also 2.6 Ghz, and although a little slower single-core, it's faster, total.
  I'd love to find you the reference on the AMD web-site where they say the two devices are interchangeable. 
  https://www.amd.com/en/products/embedded-ryzen-v1000-series

[justclaws]

It's complicated. (Even more so at 1:08 am.)

R1000 series...
https://www.amd.com/en/products/embedded-ryzen-r1000-series



V1000 series...
https://www.amd.com/en/products/embedded-ryzen-v1000-series



 

[reaper89971]

On 11/24/2021 at 1:12 PM, Keatah said:

Wait. If the 3300U came from a dead laptop.. maybe that 3300U is bad and reason for the dead laptop in the first place. There's that and then proper verification of the soldering work with x-ray. Was the board inspected by that method?

 

All in all, how much of a performance delta would be expected with this swap?

 

Any performance boost...  Most games use 4 cores so the dual core processor was a bad choice in my opinion to put on this game console in 2020-2021.  Should have been at least a quad core.  Smart TVS have quad cores, tablets, hand helds, etc.  It was disappointing to me this console that i want to succeed only had a dual core processor.

 

  In fact i purchased my Atari VCS hopeing i could upgrade it with a better processor. 

 

Your right the Apu from the dead laptop could be bad.  And NO the solder points were not X-rayed. 

 

  It was an affordable attempt at 70$ for the dead board vs over 100 to 200 to 300 and up to 400$ for similiar processors on other high end boards. To attempt the swap.  I went with a low end for that reason.  The chipsets for these embedded processors are expensive.   And the Atari VCS is a low end laptop budget system.  Im already well over that price point.  Overspent for this failure.  But this should help someone else in the future discussing this topic on here.

 

If you could find me a motherboard around 70$ to 100$ with the other processor maybe i would attempt it again. 

 

Also one good thing here is

if the APU is in fact good and passed a xray test

then that rules out all the mobile chipset processors

for swaps

and helps progress this idea narrowing the list of possible swaps

that i am sure a few will try in the future if not already.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2021 by reaper89971
typo

[reaper89971]

Could someone add support to the Atari VCS Bios for the Ryzen 3 3300U for me to find out if it would work then. 

 

Anyone know how or has added support to Bios before,  A software MOD here to get my Console Working would be Cheaper at this point before i do any other hardware mods that may not work again. 

 

Again Reballing the old APU by hand is 300$, 

A new Atari is 300$  ,

 

Getting a Reball Stencil Made is also a problem because there isn't a 3D image of the AMD FT5 BGA 1140BALL package i can download from the internet with the precise ball distance and Ball diameter

I can't just download one from the internet so to have one made will cost me 150$ 

Just to image the APU so they can make a Reball stencil for it. 

Then this Stencil itself is 150$ to make. 

So im at a cross roads with moving forward for this reason.  Too much Cost Every direction. 

If someone can make the stencil form me including imaging the APU component to create the Stencil for less than 200$  Then i might do it. 

It cost almost 300 $ to have the APU imaged 3d or scanned then have the stencil made. 

Also i have to have the reballer able to use the stencil i have made meaning its one he knows how to use because im not a reballer.  I inquired about this with no answer yet. 

 

 If i get the Stencil Made i could pay a reballer to make another attempt on the motherboard with another APU Much easier faster and cheaper if i get the Stencil Made for the AMD FT5 BGA 1140ball Package. 

 

Could Anyone Image the APU for me to creat a 3D image or cad or data sheet for the APU for me for cheap.  Or Even Better know were i could download a DATASHEET complete with precise measurements of the APU Package.  Then i could bring the cost down to have the Stencil Made and Save some money. 

Edited November 27, 2021 by reaper89971
typo

[Keatah]

14 hours ago, reaper89971 said:

So im at a cross roads with moving forward for this reason.  Too much Cost Every direction.

I don't know. Costly? Yes. Seems that way. If it was me I'd set it aside and come back at a later time when better tools and knowledge can be applied. Personally I'm not a big fan of upgrading soldered-on things. They are what they are. And if you're looking for performance beyond what default vcs hardware offers it may simply be best to get a PC outright.

 

From past PC building & modding & repair, I know that a BIOS needs to support a processor specifically. When new features are added, like more cache or cores the BIOS needs to know how to handle that and configure that. And BIOS usually installs some microcode (into CPU) for errata at every boot. Should you continue, that's probably the place to start.

 

In the old 8086 - 80486 days, it was still easy to upgrade speeds without the BIOS being aware. BIOS rarely looked further into the CPU beyond FSB. But once Write-Through vs Write-Back cache and Out-of-Order execution became things, BIOS started gaining processor specific support.

 

Just my opinion backed by years of hands-on experience.

[reaper89971]

Another Solution would be a developer Bios of some sort or Beta Bios with more room for changes then VCS currently has.  Any Developer on here able to get me the developer version of the Console Bios? 

Could i download the Beta or Developer Bios any were? 

 

I have the original reflash bios.   Any  homebrew creator could help me out here getting the support onto my console sometime in future.  Software engineer needed, or College student that might want to take a try at adding support for the Ryzen 3300U for me. 

[justclaws]

1 hour ago, reaper89971 said:

Another Solution would be a developer Bios of some sort or Beta Bios with more room for changes then VCS currently has.  Any Developer on here able to get me the developer version of the Console Bios? 

Could i download the Beta or Developer Bios any were? 

I can tell you there is no developer BIOS, and the BIOS is written by AMD, I understand.
The VCS is the same hardware, whether it's a developer system, or a consumer system.

It is the operating system which is different, so that is not a route which can help at all.

[digitalbilly]

I love this thread and attempt any success or updates?